Can you help me with a phrase?

Eleanor, I really dislike vomiting in there. What emotion, exactly, are you trying to get across? Distress? Or are you attempting to indicate there's a lot of eye contact going on; all over the place, between lots of couples?

But the idea of vomiting kisses isn't the least bit appealing, so I don't think it works to describe eye contact which stands in for kissing, in that way.

I wondered if Eleanor meant that fake, fixed face, chin pointing, glance of greeting that people do when they are making the effort but their heart is not in it because it's bloody Monday morning and they drank too much the night before :o)

Yeah, I must admit, I did stumble a little on that line - but I thought, maybe, it was conveying a way of greeting that was purposely laid back and nonchalent, to the point of being unintentionally unfriendly. Was that it? Here we have the luxury of asking the author what her real intention was, which is fab.

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QUOTE: "They slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs exchanging the usual Monday morning vomiting of eye contact for kisses."

It works, but is fuzzy!

They slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs, exchanging the usual Monday morning's (cerimonial) vomit for champagne kisses and/in/of eye contact.

"I don't like Mondays, tell me why...... shoot the whole thing down:" Boomtown Rats

Hi El,

Yep, have to admit that I didn't/don't understand what that line is trying to convey.

slumping into chairs is a bit hackneyed ... and the vomit has me foxed i must admit ...

"They slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs"....school is a moulding process and no-one likes plastic moulds!

"exchanging the usual Monday morning"....everyone hates going to work on Mondays

"vomiting of eye contact for kisses".......regurgitating crap to keeping up appearances for fame or fortune (social scene and educate)

Anti-establishment...very cool sarcasm..imo

Hmmm i'm still confused. I was trying to express that way that people avoid eye contact in a sort of horrified way, like making eye contact is the worst thing in the world. That thing where they make eye contact and seem disgusted and look away as fast as possible. And I thought that putting 'for kisses' emphasises that this is their way of greeting each other and perhaps highlights the unfriendliness of this.

Is there another word that could go in there:

Exhanging the usual Monday morning ...... of eye contact for kisses.

Or should I scrap it altogether?

Thanks!

I think the problem is that on one side we don't like this kind of eye contact - and on the other kissing is what we do when we meet friends we like - so the two concepts clash.

Also people don't really exchange eye contact, they make it - wanted or not.

You need to write down what eactly is the emotion you want to express and then try and work it into an interesting sentence.

Maybe:

'Monday morning - a polite exchange of quick glances and unwanted eye contact.'

Or using 'vomit':

'Monday morning - a vomit of quick glances and stomach churning eye contact.'

Hope that helps

On the question of alternatives to 'vomit,' i'm sure someone will throw up something soon.

Monday mornings - when eye contact is reluctantly made and quickly broken.

Or a variation with different adverbs...'enthusiastically broken', maybe?

Yeah. Given your explanation, Eleanor, it's the kissing that has to go, I think. I like both of kj's suggestions, myself.

I reckon Enzo's almosr nailed it there ... kj's dont quite get there for me - a polite exchange of quick glances and unwanted eye contact is clunky and almost contradictory.

Vomits, I'd get rid of entirely, it simply doesn't work. The seat foam they sit on might vomit, eyes don't. Maybe you could work something around the concept of air kisses - that pointless polite social greeting?

I quite like the use of 'vomit' actually, it's grown on me. So yes, the second of my suggestions I think is the best (not that you should use it of course).

i just thrown up ------ YURRRKKKKKKKKK!!! Delete the whole line babe, believe this bird, it stinks -- and if the rest of the stuff is likewise, delete the the whole -- start over with simple emotions described simply -- forget trying to be 'smart' or hep or different -- Use simple good english -- and i promise not to throw up -- and read instead --- Cluck cluck....flap flap...

Please can everyone do me a favour and ignore any rude or stupid comments on my thread. I'm sure we all know who i'm referring to. Don't let the morons hijack our site!

Thanks for the rest of your suggestions,

El x

Actually, I think that's the first time I've ever agreed with what Rita has said... she is right. If you are gong to make an original stand out statement, it'd better flow and not jar - otherwise keep it crisp and flowing.

Actually your point is valid, but I believe what Rita said is that it 'stinks' and if it's all like that I should delete the whole thing so as to avoid her throwing up. :-)

Yeah, Rita, stalwart of good writing advice...

Eleanor - I wasn't agreeing with that bit... ha

KJ - I aint going to disagree with Rita just because I think she's a twat most times. Neither do I go into huffs when people don't agree with me.

Hi El, I can see what you're trying to convey but can't think of a decent alternative. Would 'ducking' creep in their somewhere, or some sort of mortification? Or some description of being instantly repelled by something, like touching a live wire or something disgusting... Sorry, really can't think of anything.
Lou x
(p.s. don't worry, no one takes anyone seriously who doesn't even bother to read the piece.)

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Like drunken vomiting, the meeting of eyes so early on Monday mornings were neccecssary, quick, and relieving when over.

I prefer my first suggestion myself, but that's the best I could do using 'vomit'.

Ben

Sorry, looking back at your original I relaise I should have used the present tense.

Can't say I understand what you're aiming for but this makes me smile -
Uncomfortable Monday mornings, slumped in plastic chairs: furtive eyes momentarily meet, vomit disgust and dart away, horrified :o)

Perhaps it would need to be "pairs" or "sets" of furtive eyes... to indicate it's many people and not a one off.

This is odd ... I read this thread expecting to see my comment from last night ... and there isn't one! Yet I distinctly remember thinking "Delete the line, come up with something better to portray your meaning.

Mind you, I have had an ache today, the sort of ache that explains the thin red line on your forehead brought about, perhaps, by gently resting one's head on the edge of a desk for a few minutes and waking up several hours later. Perhaps.

Anyway, my opinion hasn't changed: Dump it. It's awful.

Sorry. x

Hi Stormy,

That was Rita's suggestion...? How long have you been having these blackouts ;)

Hi El, what about something like this:

"They slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs exchanging the usual Monday morning vomiting of eye contact for kisses."

'They slump(ed) into(on) the uncomfortable plastic chairs, exhanging for kisses the discomforting Monday morning eye-contact routines.'

Cheers.

"They slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs - the usual Monday morning paranoia instead of smiles and kisses."

How about:

"Their eyes launched a nuclear torrent of destruction and misery that detonated as a mushroom cloud vomiting the harsh cold radiation of burnt skin, weeping gums and a lingering, diseased-ridden death - it was, she realised as someone tossed a Dirty Bomb at her with the casual flick of an eyelid, the usual early Monday morning exchange."

Or is that a little bit over the top?

It's a little wordy...

Having said that, I barely got through my own monday morning so I do see where you're coming from.

I ended up taking the line out - well I kept in 'the students slump into the uncomfortable plastic chairs' and then ran onto the next line with 'every movement showing how elated.... etc'

Ah well, submission date tomorrow.

they slid into the plastic chairs and clamped their teeth onto formica tables and went 'rar'

Ha ha - daft but love that image!

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Kj, I know Rita said it first but that wasn't what I said :-)

Eleanor, if you are going to keep some of that line I'd be tempted to take out the word 'uncomfortable' ... we all know that plastic chairs are uncomfortable.

It's also possibly author intrusion. Far better to let your readers know that the students found the plastic chairs uncomfortable than tell them from a narrative point of view.

There again, I'm being very picky here and that can lead you into problems ... I haven't written a short for over a year now ... so consumed I've become with trying to write with originality, without excessive adverbs, without verbiage, cliches and you name it - I've tried to avoid it - that my writing has ground to a halt.

Fine, yet again, I argue with myself within a post.

Good luck with your portfolio!

Stormy - know the feeling. Have become so paralised with trying not to write in a certain way that I'm barely writing at all.

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Stormy, Lou - yes I went through this. The way I got out of it was to simply decide to write something unoriginal and full of verbiage and cliches - see my story 'Flesh Golem'. It was great fun and in the end I learnt that the best thing is just to write and get the story written. We can use the cliches as a short-hand for what we are trying to be saying and then look at it in a redraft - and again, what is so wrong about cliches? Originality is over-rated, but if we have something written - we have something which we can work with to get that originality. I think we have to write and engage with the story before inspiration arrives, it doesn't always come before we start writing.

My feeling is that readers are a lot more forgiving than the writers and don't really care about these things. I also examined novels I liked - popular reads - and noticed that I was being too hard on myself, as all good novels seem to be stuffed with verbiage, cliches and a certain lack of originality.

hey el...Im FLATTERRED ya took muh advice...now take annuther one....delete yersellf from the earth.......CACKLE CACKLE...so that we don't have ta read DRIVEL......GOBBLE GOBBLE DE GOOOOOOKKKK.....

Hey el.

having read what YOU want to convey I think describing it as a 'trade off' would do.
It keeps that distant impersonal feel and fits with a 'being at work-doing it because it's business not pleasure-lesser of two evils but I'd rather be elsewhere' kind of thing.

Ely

hey el, i can also help u with yer face -- it needs a lift like yer writing.....

hey there little lady, you'd better get in the queue for the ballpool or you'll miss your free ice cream token.

... err excuse me, is there an adults area in this place?

Oh dear - we should really keep that gate shut on the children's thread. Look she's wondered out on her own. Bless.

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Thanks for your suggestions El, and everybody. Porfolio is now handed in. Wont get the results for ages but will let you know when I do. Am now concentrating on a presentation for Wednesday, I HATE doing presentation, get soooo nervous.