Too Much Hype

http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2011/08/01/110801fi_fiction_to...

One of his shorts I found. Apparently published in "We The Animals".

msvynyl:
It's a bold claim that you feel you can do better.

I did not like the story I read. But I can see why many people would. Especially socialites of New York. I think to them this would be edgy.

Agree absolutely, msvynyl. It's really depressing. Having read good books throughout my life too (tried to, that is... I have read many bad ones as well) it isn't that difficult to spot quality in writing, and equally, crap writing that has broken through as a result of clever marketing, and I include most of the books on the stand that claim to be 'a best seller' (my God, there are hundreds of them). They either irritate you with their convoluted prose and plot, or leave you totally empty and wanting, and sometimes both. Yuk!

Good post.

Trev

I have certainly read stuff that I thought I could do better than, although whether I actually could is another thing entirely. I read a book a couple of years ago that was actually a good idea about getting the ability to get into people's brains and have a look around in their subconscious and control them as well, but it was spoiled by some really clunky writing and unconvincing dialogue. I was surprised a decent editor didn't sort it out. Can't remember the name of the book now.

Having said that, it's all quite subjective as I liked a lot of Miranda July's short stories, but I think she is a tad Marmite-esque and you will either love her or think she's a talentless loon. It's a fine line!

Right with you, msvynyl. I almost gave up reading at one point because I couldn't find anything that I liked. Flimsy characters, lousy dialogue, crappy style. Plot doesn't bother me so much - but I need to engage with the voice, and I need the characters to be believable. I started a Dennis Lehane recently because I've always rated him as a writer. But I gave up after 3 chapters. It all felt like 'contract fulfillment'. Elmore Leonard seemed to go that way. Stephen King went that way years ago - for me, anyway.

You certainly can't take any direction from the critics and taste-mongers. I've only read three Booker Prize winners that I enjoyed. For a while, people raved over David Mitchell (not the comedian - he's brilliant!), but I absolutely cannot ABIDE his pretentious, convoluted, clever-me narratives - besides which, he has a tin ear for dialogue.

I tend to go back to stuff I've enjoyed in the past - which may seem a bit like wallowing in nostalgia, but there it is. They're the things that got me interested in writing, reading and literature in the first place, so I'm not going to neglect them. They bring a lot of comfort in these seemingly vacant times.

Just read Larry McMurtry's 'The Last Picture Show' from 1966. First book for ages that I seriously didn't want to finish - even though I know the story backwards. That's what a great writer can do.

PS I don't think it's a bold claim that you feel you can do better. I can't think of a greater incentive to DO it. And there are many writers on this site who are easily better than some of the stuff sitting on the bookshelves at Waterstones or wherever.

Seriously

I spotted a golden feather on the edge of the concrete platform, waiting for me, while I was waiting for the train. I thought of a joke, about rats devouring an entire golden pigeon—but there was no one around to share the joke with.

What utter bilge

You've actually made me want to read this Justin Torres book now! But I'll be borrowing it from the library (saw it there yesterday), not paying actual money for it! And Stan, I'm with you on the David Mitchell thing! I ploughed through Cloud Atlas at the end of last year, to see what all the fuss was about. I think it's often a case of The Emperor's New Clothes. Nobody's brave enough to say 'This is a load of pretentious crap'.

I almost begin to wonder if it's like modern art. It's what the critics and buyers SAY it is. Charles Saatchi has a helluva lot to answer for it that department!

I challenge anyone to write a better story about two gay men finding happiness in the american heartland.

Better in what respect, White Dwarf?

Like anything else, much of it is subjective and a matter of personal taste.

Hey, Trev... you just beat me to the mark! I was thinking Brokeback Mountain. No... I think White Dwarf is referring to the story he's posted the link for.

Agree about Close Range. And Heart Songs. I think she kind of lost it with Bad Dirt, though. Love her novels, too.

Are we talking Annie Proulx here, WD?
From her magnificent Close Range collection?

Every one's a winner, babe... that's the truth.

You've said it, Stanley.

White Dwarf
The New Yorker hasn't published anything of value in years, which is why Justin Torres managed to get printed in it. Being Edgy, whether it's about your sexuality or anything else can still be something well written. And you're right, the socialites here in New York would think it's edgy because they think they're calling the shots on what's hip and what's not. Please treat yourself to a real writers work,who chronicles the heartbreaking uphill struggle of two brothers-one gay and the other straight-whose yearning for love is made even more treacherous by the changing times and religion. Please read James Baldwin's Just Above My Head. That book is a masterpiece. Also, Broke Back Mountain, the story is haunting when it comes to love being foiled by the conventions of society. That story also brings me to tears.

Well -- many people were saying they could write better. Definitely some of you can. I didn't want to single msvynyl out.

Yes a lot of what makes a piece of writing good is subjective.

Than there are the aspects of good writing that are not so subjective. Elements of style that are nearly universally agreed upon. Like using an active voice rather than passive. Or not using unnecessary words to show off.

I read the Torres story. It was a bit weak. Nothing in the subject matter that interested me.

I also read some of the original posters work. I didn't want to burst any bubbles here but, I do not believe msvynyl writes any better than Torres'.

msvynyl comments bothered me. Like a football fan screaming at the players on the TV, as if he could do better.

The worst book I ever read was by Danielle Steele, I can't remember what it was called. I only struggled through it to see what all the hype was about and because my mum thought it was brill. It was sheer dross, and I wouldn't wipe my arse on anything she has written. A close second has to be Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code,' and I read that for the same reason I read Steele's book. The Da Vinci Code is more or less a vast ream of research crudely tacked on to a lame conspiracy theory that was old hat long before Brown's greedy eyes settled on it. That wasn't so much of a let down as the oh so predictable formula, though. It's all bam bam bam, action action action, read this, quick, you twat, and immediately get on to the next dollop of shit. And in my humble opinion the suspense we were promised isn't really suspense because it's too predictable (unless, of course, you're completely unfamiliar with the conspiracy stuff on which the book so heavily relies). As if that isn't enough, the characters are tacky and lacking depth and all more or less the same, and it looks to me like the character notes were written on the inside of a fag packet in the pub, late at night after a dozen or so pints of Stella and a Chicken Vindaloo. Except, of course, for the fact that the dude played by Tom Hanks in the film wears a Mickey Mouse watch. Big deal.

Loads of people on this site, given the opportunity, I am sure could do better than much of the stuff published these days. It's so hard to get publishers interested in new work - unless you happen to be a duchess or footballer or better still a topless model. In fact, as in most walks of life these days, success amounts to 'it's not what you know, it's who you know'.
Linda

How does one go about becoming a topless model these days? I ask purely out of idle curiosity.

Absolutely, Linda. You've only got to win Big Brother or have a six week run in Eastenders and a publisher will bring your book out overnight like magic. And they're very likely ghost-written anyway. All you need is a well-known face. Any jobs for ghostwriters going?

Looks like I'll have to get my titties out then, but they're not much cop.

I don't care, I'd still like to play with them. I've never felt a Walrus's titties before. Yum-yum!

Take yer vest off, Alex :) Then, preferably, film yourself and post it on YouTube, wait for it to go viral, then post your phone number.

White Dwarf - your points about elements of style are quite right (I'd recommend everyone to read or re-read Orwell's essay 'Politics and the English Language', which is posted in a forum on here somewhere). This is what gets me so much about the Dan Browns of this world. The guy's a college English professor (or was... he was probably drummed out after his peers read his books, but by then he didn't need the money anyway). The point is, he knows how to do it properly. He's widely-read. He could have used a bit of style and finesse, and made the characters at least 2-dimensional. But... maybe he did. Maybe it was the editors who said 'Dan... the story's great. Leave out the fancy shit. We're trying to sell to as many as possible. Keep it basic.'

Or maybe he really is just a talentless klutz.

I'll soon be posting a story especially for your elucidation involving sexually attractive walrus (amongst other things), Sue. I just need to finish editing one of my more traditional tales first, because I haven't posted any 'normal' stuff yet. And then, after I've lulled this unsuspecting world into a false sense of security, I shall unleash my poetry.....

I'm all agog, I can't wait.

Just read this in the paper:

'Raymond Hodgson, 31, became so angry when his partner of five years refused to stop reading aloud passages from Fifty Shades of Grey that he squirted brown sauce in her face.

He later pleaded guilty to common assault.'

Jeez!

O dear I seem to have started something here. I should like to point out that I am not nor have I ever been a topless model (as far as I can remember anyway). Could be the way forward though.....
Linda