Um...sorry for bringing everyone down, but...help...

And all this so I don't have to live with my parents, which at 26 (27 next month) is a reasonable desire. I was never going to be, and never will be, a sales person. It's abhorrent. So I'll take my degree and go and work in a sodding bar on minimum wage shall I?

Get yourself fired so that you can claim dole. Shit on your boss's desk or something. Stick your cock in his mouth. Anything. Just get the sack, so you can claim dole and housing benefit for a while, then get another job. Anything, even bar work. Bar work is fine. You get to meet women.

I agree that you need to get out, but I'm not sure getting sacked is the way to go. These days everybody wants last employer references. However, if you took a bar job (just for now) you could get assisted benefits which, if you were working evenings, would give you all day to find something better.

Another option, though this one could possibly backfire on you, but it's what I'd try first. Is going right to the top of your company. Speak to the head honcho and tell him about all of your grievances. Put it in writing but also ask for a face to face meeting with him. Tell him you want to work and be a good employee but that you can't cope with the present situation.

I work in a large haulage/data storage company for two grumpy old men both trying to top dog each other. Every so often I have to get them both together and say right, you told me this and he told me that, which of you do I listen to?

Being out of work is the very worst thing for long-term depression. Also to be considered, if you've been diagnosed as clinically depressed and are a registered addict you're really going to struggle finding something else at a time when there is very little out there. Obviously if neither of these conditions affect your ability to work then you don't need to mention them.

I would say, speak to your bosses and explain to them how unhappy you are.

But mostly, don't make any rash decision while you're feeling like shit.

Perhaps bar work, or something else, could be a breather/compromise that may grant you the time to find a job you will enjoy and could settle with? I guess I can't be of much help due to lack of experience in these situations, but I do fear the same predicament when I finish uni with no job prospects.

It sounds like you're having a real crappy time of it. Hope things get better for you.

Cheers guys. It's good to know that even though no one in my company will answer a simple question for fear of being liable for the outcome, that you lot are here to help. I appreciate it.

Basically, I see/speak to the head honcho all the time, and if I brought that up with him, I'd be told to stop wasting his time, i.e. I have to talk to my ineffective manager, he has to speak to our uncaring director, and he has to pass it on to our apathetic MD, or deal with it himself. I've even had phone calls from my manager/immediate director having a go at me for 'troubling' the MD with my issues. It is quite honestly the most pathetic carry on I have ever been involved in. It flabbergasts me.

There's one bloke who is a pig, shouting and swearing and abusing me when I don't do something exactly as he would do it. He's smashed a glass of water across my desk and all over me, thrown various things at me, actually. Theres another bloke who has upped and left this week, and the pig is on holiday, so I'm running an office on my own and doing three people's work.

What I'd really like to do is walk out and tell them where to stick it. What is realistically achievable is; hand in notice, move back in with parents, look for a new job, start again, and hope they will support me through it without their usual assumptions that I am exaggerating everything and I have no problem (they don't know about the drugs, or it would be much worse.)

I've been in that position myself, Steve, and it's intolerable. Dog eat dog, literally - and no one to back me up. In the end, I went to my doctor because it was making me ill. My doctor signed me off. I went through the usual with Occupational Health, etc... but things didn't improve. So, one afternoon, I got up... and walked out! I went to the Job Centre the next day and explained it all. My doctor backed me up with the health issues... and I won my case. It enabled me to get that important breather, take stock, retrain, move on.

I hope you can work it out, mate. Sooner rather than later, get out of there. No job on earth is worth wrecking your health for.

Sooz... I have to take issue with you on that one point: being out of work is the very worst thing for long-term depression. I fundamentally disagree - though it's horses for courses, probably. Nothing is actually worse for long-term depression than being in a job that grinds you further and further down each day. I don't enjoy not working - or, at least, not being in paid employment (I do voluntary work) - but the last couple of years, since I left my last job, have enabled me to have time for the respite and recovery I need. I was never properly addressing my problems - just burying them in work. And that very nearly cost me my life in the end.

"There's one bloke who is a pig, shouting and swearing and abusing me when I don't do something exactly as he would do it. He's smashed a glass of water across my desk and all over me, thrown various things at me, actually."

What???

Then kick his fucking head in.

Basically if you are unhappy working where you are you should leave, it's as simple as that, but you can be clever at it as well if you can put up with a bit of aggro for a while.

Get a copy of your job description, if you haven't got one then ask your line manager for a copy. Send him an email and keep a copy, then keep a copy of his reply, don't stop until you get one.

Every time you are asked to do something, have a look at the job description, if it's not on there, then don't do it. Don't make a scene about it, just send an email to your line manager and say " I'm afraid i can't accomodate your request as it's not on my job desription". Keep copies of everything.

There may be a line on your job description that says " Any other requests by your Manasger that are reasonable".

Get your line manager to define "reasonable".

If you are asked to do something that you think is unreasonable then once again refuse and state that you think the request is "unreasonable".

After a while, you will become to them the biggest pain in the arse and they will either find a silly excuse to sack you or ask you to leave.

If they sack you, you can then go for "constructive dismissal", this means that they have basically forced you out of your job by being unreasonable. Get an employment solicitor ( citizens advice will recommend one) to write to them, if you've kept copies of everything then they will back down and offer you a deal, they will not want to go to court.

If they ask you to leave, then great, ask for 6 months wages and negotiate from there.

But you must keep copies of everything that you are asked to do. Keep a diary of everytime "Pig" does something naughty.

The guy that's just left, keep in contact with him, he may be usefull as a witness.

Good luck mate.

Hi Steve, your company sounds F*****G shit mate, no-one should have things thrown at them, Bullying in all it's forms is unacceptable, don't accept it. I'd seek advice, C.A.B can help you in all kinds of ways, ie; to see what help you can get for your rent if you found another lower paid job, and to see if there is any action you can take against these arseholes, maybe as Jolono says, for constructive dismissal, though that takes a lot of energy. One thing for sure, I wouldn't be hanging around, you don't just have to walk out, hand in notice, find alternative employment, happy days, even if it means living with your folks for a bit (if that's a possibility)or flat sharing, whatever it takes, don't torture yourself like this, no Job is worth it. Best of luck.

I tried the 'constructive dismissal' route when, after returning from sick leave, they broke their end of the deal by putting me back in a difficult situation. They closed ranks, though, as these places often do - and I was made to look like the problem. I wish I'd been in a union.

Other things I tried, Steve, at a care job where I was witnessing abuse: I took in a voice recorder, hid it in my top pocket or in the office, and recorded certain things going on to back up my case. It looked like a mobile phone anyway, so no one was really suspicious. I also set up a small camcorder - hidden from view - to capture events.

Jolono's right, mate. Do those things. But ultimately, you know things are unlikely to change, and it'll end up infecting every single aspect of your life - your physical and mental health, your well-being, your happiness, your family and social life. It's a bit like where I'm living and the huge problems I've had with my neighbours, as spoken about elsewhere. I've tried every possible legal thing over the last couple of years to get the situation rectified. Well... it's now come down to a matter of 'If you can't beat 'em.... move.' And that's what I'm doing.

My daughter was in a similar situation and along with most others in the office she was being bullied to the extent that she phoned me in floods of tears from the toilets. I said it was a pity she hadn't had her breakdown in the office but I told her to go back, collect her things and walk out and go straight to her doctor as because of her situation she was already on anti depressants. She did just that and now she has gone back to being a free lance worker which might not give the security but like Stan says it is preferable to losing her health.

The people who are still working there approached my daughter to see if she would be prepared to back them up as they were going to try to do something about this person. She agreed to help and I believe the case is still on going.

Though I think Jolono's advice is very good if you can cope with the time it might take to make a strategic withdrawal.

You only have one life don't let others ruin it for you. I hope things improve at a rapid rate.

Moya

Just another thought. When we had boarding kennels we often used to get people come and work for us for a short time,office workers, teachers, social workers etc who were stressed out.

They seemed to benefit from doing physical work as opposed to office work if only for a short time usually a summer season. I'm not suggesting you do kennel work but maybe something physical.

Don't know how much this will help just throwing it into the mix .

Moya

Just found this, Steve... might be useful...

http://careerplanning.about.com/od/jobseparation/a/leave_mistakes.htm?nl...

This page puts it plainly enough:

http://careerplanning.about.com/od/quittingyourjob/a/when_to_quit.htm

Film it covertly over a number of months then go up to the head honcho and tell him dispatches would love this shit. Fight fire with fire.

Or maybe pack it in and walk away from a nest of vipers?

Either way hope you work it out pal. Good luck.

Really sorry to hear your troubles. Nobody's mentioned unions, I'm sort of guessing you don't have one but if you do that's what they're there for.

Try and stick it if you can, as claiming the dole is not easy now whatever you may read and if you leave on your own accord you may struggle to get any support.

You need to keep a record of everything that happens, any emails or written instructions would be excellent, but otherwise just keep a clear, detailed account of every instruction and request. Witnesses are also important - you say somebody left recently, are you in touch? Have you talked to them about the problems?

Talking to CAB is a good suggestion. There are also various mental health and drugs charities that have helplines and might be able to give you advice about the impact of the stressful situation on your condition/addiction and how that impacts on your rights under Equal Opportunities legislation. If your employer knows about your depression, for example, then just dumping any old shit on you could be in contravention of the law if they've not considered the impact on your condition/health.

I've just escaped a really nasty employer, luckily I collected a lot of evidence of their dodgy behaviour and consequently got a very generous redundancy, shiny sparkling reference and no damage to my cv. I'm now working round the corner instead of a 4 hour daily commute - result.

The last thing to say is apply for jobs as a total priority. easy to say, I know that when you're being sucked dry in a nasty workplace coming home and spending the evening in front of the computer is horrible, and when your confidence is sapped by a bully boss at work it makes it really hard to perk up for interviews, but you have to persevere.

Thanks for sharing your problems with us, I'm glad you feel you can share your problems with the abctale community, but do seek expert advice, after all we're just a bunch of bloody writers what do we know!

Also, you might want to look for work for a mental health charity or similar locally. I think you're articulate and upfront about your problems and would bring a really good set of skills combined with personal experience. It's the one setting where your health record is a total, 100% advantage.

I still say see your doctor, too, and see if he'd support you over this. Things won't get any better there, Steve, I think you know that. Meantime, you'll just get worse. However, you know best how to play it.

No sage advice, just keeping my fingers crossed that things will work themselves out for you Steve. ATB

I don't know Steve. All advice is shit.
What I did: take a risk and move to a big city (if you're not already in one) - more jobs. Share a house, but not with people who are falling. Do temping jobs until you land somewhere with decent people. Those places do exist. As do the people. Grab any line that you are offered in such a place. If it's right, they care about you and your self-esteem. If they put their faith in you, return it tenfold. Despite all my miserable writing, I have never lost faith in people. Now I always look to give new people a chance - just like the chances I got. Good luck mate, it's all in your hands. Just make sure you know that.

Not all advice is shit, Steve. Take it from people who've been through it themselves.

The interesting thing about the above advice is that a lot of people on this site have been through similar experiences and each has found their own solution. Maybe your gut instinct is the right one, quit and find a bar job or temp or whatever, just to keep working, just to get out from where you are. (my only caution is that a lot of drug addicts also have drink problems and if that applies to you maybe not the bar job).

Don't give up hope Steve, a lot of people have been through a similar experience and we're all rooting for you.

Write a compelling article about it and sell it to a national newspaper. Bar work is actually really enjoyable - I loved being a barmaid, but you're right - it doesn't pay that well comparatively, unless you excel, make a career of it and get promoted to bar manager? You could work your way up? The sooner you get out of where you are, the better, from what you've said!

Learn to say no - if you always agree to covering others' holiday/doing their work for them because they manage to take advantage of your clearly generous nature, then they will keep pushing it, which will only affect you in the negative way it already has done. The more you say yes/agree to take on, the more people will load extra work on you. And NEVER agree to do anything you consider unethical - I couldn't work for a company that put me in the position you describe, how horrible!

At the end of the day, living with your parents for a while longer or moving back in with them temporarily is no bad thing - I've had to do it myself this year due to illness and it's been lovely! Your health and sanity is worth far more than money, trust me!

Lastly, please join a narcotics anonymous or similar group and get yourself clean - the drugs will not be helping the depression or your own sense of self-worth. Your parents might be able to help you - why don't you swallow your pride and ask them for help? Remember - only you can change your life - seize the day!

J x

Guys, cheers for all your advice and sharing your experiences, it's made me feel a hell of a lot better about everything, I really, truly appreciate it.

I haven't done anything rash, I won't be walking out without something to go to, so I've just got to bite the bullet and get into the daunting world of job hunting again. I've always wanted to help people. It's the only thing that really floats my boat, and in the dog-eat-dog industry I'm in, I'm more chihuahua than pit bull - I just don't fit the mould. I've had a look around this evening for charity/care work, and I'm reminded of why I've always stepped back from the edge when thinking of leaving this shitty job before - the money. I don't make that much now, but entry level positions in charity/care are really low paying. I don't mind scrimping - not at all, I don't need much, but the house/rent prices where I am are extortionate, so I have no idea how long I will have to live with parents, which is terminal to the self esteem!

I should have mentioned, both my house mates have decided to move out at the end of September, and aside from finding two people I know to move in (landlord doesn't want me offering it to randoms) I will have to move back home anyway - chances of having to move out are hovering around 90% I reckon.

I love the idea of working for a mental health charity, and I know the biggest hurdle is landing the first job - now I've had a sales job I could apply for any number of horrific sounding jobs in my industry, I know it's about getting in the door initially. There's nothing left but to just go for it and hope the rewards are greater than the sacrifices. I'm sure they will be.

I will never lose faith in people, no matter how many unspeakable bastards there are in the world, and yes, I did want to kick my colleague's head in, (swearing at him, a lot, loudly, had to suffice, not totally out of character, but enough to at least take him aback), but he's just one end of the people-spectrum, and here you guys are, showing me the other end, so thanks again, I'll let you know how I get on.

Terrence, it's strange, I've never really gone at the hard drinking with any great conviction - at least it's never formed a habit - and I've worked in bars for about four years during my life. My favourite job was a bar job in a busy country pub with loads of Canadian/South African/Aussie/Polish travellers living upstairs, going crazy after shifts, I was 18 years old with no responsibilities and having the time of my life!

Oh, and you wouldn't believe what sort of behaviour people can get away with if they are a 'key member of the sales force'. I mean, I told my boss and others what this guy did to me. Then he chucks in a bit of racism against one of my other colleagues, relating to her choice in men. All this stuff happens in a cloud of crazed capitalist panic, but when I sit back and reflect on it and write it down, it's just bloody staggering. He's still posting the figures though - yes, he's still employed.

I think most people's lives are a series of accidents. Mine certainly was. The only possible advice I can give is to put youself in places and situations where the best accidents are most likely to happen.

I used to wonder how people with proper careers managed to plan them. They don't, of course. They just do what they're doing until they feel it's time to look for something better. Only in retrospect does it look as if there was a plan. It's all accident, it's just what people happen to be offering at the time you're looking.

The human turds are not evenly distributed. Far from it. Some industries have a very high concentration of turds, others hardly any. Natural turds working in an industry without a turd culture are pretty well obliged to behave like proper human beings, and some find they actually like it. The rest move on to places that embrace turdism.

Sales? That's an anagram of turd in every language in the world, isn't it? Just rearrange the emloyees and you get a latrine. Once a turd finds his way into sales he knows he's found his spiritual home.

For most of my life I have avoided the world of employers and employees. I discovered (by accident) that it was quite possible, in fact not at all difficult, to make a living outside the world of 'work'. It doesn't have to come from having a brilliant and original idea and approaching dragons for tens of thousands of pounds to fund it. I even spent some time, when I was at a loose end, selling plants and seeds on eBay. Most people think seeds come from packets and that packets come from garden centres. Here's the secret THEY don't want you to know: seeds come from plants!

You find seeds in the most extraordinary places. I used to buy packets of soup mix from Waitrose with ten different kinds of dried beans. Another word for dried beans is: seeds. I sold them on eBay in packets of ten, I could get £100 for a quid's worth of beans and still have plenty left for soup. (I checked them first to make sure they hadn't been processed in some way that would stop them from growing. They grew.)

I used to cut open winter squash (butternut, etc.) and chillies and sell the seeds from those. Just look at any greengrocer's display: seeds, seeds, seeds.

This is all based on FTSEism, of course. If you see the world as it really is (look on fruit and veg as squashy seed packets, for instance) the opportunities are endless. And yes, I made enough on eBay to pay the bills until I found something better to do.

I have always looked on 'getting a job' as a last resort, but of the few jobs I've had in my life the first was for a small, local firm called Atec. Roy Coldrick, my boss, had made all the investment and he took me on as a trainee computer programmer. (In those days computers were six feet tall and cost as much as a semi-detached house.) I was just out of university, living in a barn, and it suited me perfectly. It didn't pay much but the environment (four people) was entirely turd-free.

I'm not suggesting you'd want to be a programmer, but if you think a humanities degree would rule you out, not so! Several decades after Atec I was working as a consultant to Royal Blue, now absorbed by Fidessa, a company that made trading systems for merchant banks. My best friend there was a guy who had spent over twelve years doing a scholarly translation of one of Aristotle's works for his PhD. He emerged from his ivory tower in his early thirties, blinking in the sunlight, with nothing to do and no obvious next step in his life. He had been taken on by Royal Blue for who knows what reason? Just because he had the cheek to ask for the job, I should think. His CV certainly didn't make him a plausible candidate.

Royal Blue wasn't entirely turd-free, but turdism wasn't encouraged. One of the people I worked with had severe anxiety attacks that caused her to lie on the floor curled into a ball until they passed. I can just imagine how she would have been treated in your workplace.

Another turd-free environment I found was in magazine publishing. I worked for five years for Argus Specialist Publications. I applied for the job of projects editor on one of their mags and, to my surprise, got it. No previous experience whatsoever. I got on well with Gary Herman, the editor, and that does no harm.

What I'm saying is, if you think of your life in terms of sales and bar work, that's all it can ever be. What does it cost to apply for the job of Chief Executive of Universal International Everything Conglomerate? A letter and a stamp. You probably won't get it, but you'll at least get a courteous reply, which you won't if you apply for blue-collar clerical work. They'll even pay the cost of your plane and taxi fare to attend an interview.

I once got a free flight to Scotland and my taxi fare from Linn (the hi-fi people). I didn't get the job but I got a free day out in Scotland.

And if you do get the job (it really can happen) your problems are over!

When all else fails, there's always eBay...

Just don't set your sights too low. Look at me, I'm ABC's tech guy. Best job I've ever had! No money, but lots of job satisfaction and no turds.

Brilliant FTSE.
OK - not all advice is shit. Although I contend that examples are what will help.

Accidents: YES!

Good luck Steve. Shame you can't find a job with the little group above.

My first job, after walking out of school at 15, was as a cellarman on a cider farm in Devon. I didn't drink at the time!

Then I moved to Kent and took a sales job for the electricity board. Jeez! Right with you, Steve. I couldn't sell a £20 note for £19. Hated it hated it hated it.

Did assorted office jobs for a few years, then scraped into uni at 28.

After graduation, I 'dropped out', went to work in a wholefood shop, selling peanuts and earning them, downsized my life, got rid of my car, became an eco-warrior and stereotypical green: low income, low impact, vegan, hunt sab, anarchist. Absolute time of my life!

After redundancy, got married and took my first 'serious' job: civil servant. Checked in my brain at the desk and slowly died for 6 years to keep the mortgage paid.

Left that after my divorce and took a job - with no previous experience, but lots of enthusiasm - as a special needs care worker at a day centre. Back to earning peanuts - but 5 of the most satisfying and fun-filled years of my life. Might be worth a go for you, Steve. Good people are always needed. And in a lot of places (which I've got mixed feelings about, but it's how I got in) all you need is a clean CRB, and clean POVA and POCA checks (Protection of Vulnerable Adults and Protection of Children). Some places may ask for NVQs, but often accept 'willingness to train' - and they're not difficult.

Not worked now for 2 years because of illness - but enjoying voluntary work, teaching computer skills to 'silver surfers' in the local library. Many of my own problems over the years - periods of suicidal depression, heavy drinking, etc - have stemmed from difficult and hostile working environments.

I had a brief dabble with mental health work, but it wasn't quite 'me'. Too much of my own background for comfort there.

Good luck, mate.

Hi Steve,
FTSE's right. Aim for the skies! You never know what might happen.
When I was 25, disilliusioned with London and drugs and copywriting, I fled to Paris and worked bars. I met an English stockbroker and we started doing parties together. This lasted for seven years and we ruled the place.
A friend did the same thing but in New York, and if I was you, at your spritely age, I'd go there.
It's awash with illegal immigrants, which is what you'd be, but the buzz there is amazing and there are masses of opportunities.
Get a cheap two-week return ticket. This'll give you enough time to find a good bar/club/restaurant job and a cheap room. Take as much money as you can scrape together. Customs may want to check what's in your bank account.
The catering trade is notorious for taking on illegals because they work hard, get paid in cash (mostly tips), foreigners add something different to the place and the employer's usually someone who started out as an illegal and knows how impossible it is to get green cards.
If you don't find what you want, get the plane back.
What would you have lost?
Two weeks and a bit of dosh, which would have otherwise been spent on rent looking for a job.
What may you gain?
Escaping Britain and living in one of the world's most vibrant, whacky cities at a time in your life when you needed some inspiration. Meeting new people and attitudes. Who's to say you won't fall in love with an amazing girl, get married and find the job of your dreams?
Aim for the skies, mate.
I don't know how you're dealing with addiction ( if you're an addict like me, you're an addict till the day you die), but New York's the best place in the world to battle that too, plus if you show your face at NA and explain your situation, it's highly likely that someone will offer you help with a place to crash and a job. Recovering addicts help recovering addicts like no one else can.
I went to New York when I was 22. A mate let me kip at his place.
He was an illegal and worked the door at Nell's, a top club. He was quite a celebrity, known as Simon X to conceal his real identity. Everyone knew he was an Englishman in New York (ie, an alien) but no one gave a shit. He broadened the city's mix and brought something to the table. That was what mattered.
He did bar work as well, but his dream was to be a film director. Where better than New York? Equally, your dreams might be best served there. It's the world's capital for creativity next to London.
I found a job after about week at an all-night eaterie in Chelsea's meat market but then decided to do a driveaway to California with a buddy instead.
Whatever happens, these are irreplacable memories to cherish and smile about.
Seriously, what is there in the UK that you can't come back to in a few years? I just can't see the point of going from one job to the next like a ghost-robot and expecting different results in a country that's lost its grip on reality.
The authorities generally turn a blind eye to illegals in New York unless they're a nuisance. The worst outcome is that you'll be deported after a year or two but you'd have to draw attention to yourself to get caught, so keep your head down and don't get in needless trouble.
By seeing another country's ways, we gain perspective of our own country and how we fit into it, or not, as the case may be.
When I was your age, in the eighties, I felt an alien in my own country, suffocating in the new air that Thatcher had farted on us. When I got to Paris, I knew I was home, and I hope you find the same sort of release in New York.
Europe's pretty much a graveyard nowadays so I wouldn't suggest going there, apart from maybe Berlin but the opportunities are very basic unless you want to join art's subculture.
New York's the place for a creative youngblood.
If you want to know more, send me an email.
All the best,
Richard

I quite like the idea of being an Ebay Del Trotter. No idea how you'd get into it though - I've never bought or sold on Ebay, and I imagine you'd need to know wholesalers of things, or find things to sell that people overlook, like seeds. If you can create demand for something which has no real value, you're laughing, I suppose. I will look into it.

I also like the idea of working in a fish shop, aquarium fish and koi carp and the like. My mate does it, but probably makes less than you would in the care industry. He dropped out of university half way through his third year, which I have a perverse admiration for - you have to be confident in your convictions to do that. The thing is, and the thing people don't think about, is that he would never have used that degree, he never wanted to, and I think the point of him realising this was the point of him dropping out - it made no difference whether he finished or not.

Anyway, the main thing I've taken from this thread is the enthusiasm for life I will gain when I change my job. You get so bogged down, and you think that ineffectiveness in your job = ineffectiveness in you, and that days of wanting to hide from it all = laziness. Not true. Everything looks so big when you're stood up close, but when you've gotten through it and you look back over your shoulder as you're running out the other side, you wonder what the trepidation was for.

A lot of the trepidation, I believe, was created by my nervous and anxious upbringing, and my parents not really knowing how to deal with it. I used to come home from school and tell my parents about my grades and things - when I got a B, my Dad would always crack the 'you should have done better' joke, but he would never balance it out by telling me when he was actually proud of me. My dad is a proud man, a nuclear physicist, and I'm proud of him, but he has absolutely no capacity to express emotion, so there has been plenty of friction over the years.

I will always remember being a toddler, and being afraid of every other child my age or older, going to nursery and crying my eyes out and never wanting my mum to leave. I could never just throw myself in with the more boisterous/competitive kids. I have never worked out where this anxiety of other people comes from. Perhaps I never will. It will be the thing that stops me from going to the ABCtales evening in London in September though.

This has been excellent therapy, and maybe I have been a bit overzealous with pouring my heart out to (almost) strangers, but I'd certainly like to substitute you lot into my own life. Maybe long-distance-anonymous therapy is the future? FTSE, how quickly could you put a website together? (copyright 2012, 50%/50% split? ;))

Thanks Richard, I was in New York last year for the first time. I've never been anywhere so magical and full of creative types - it just has an air about it. I have often thought of being an illegal somewhere, hiding beneath society and going on my own self-absorbed aesthetic journey, if you've got any tips on how not to get yourself caught I'd be all ears! I will definitely send you an email if I go that route. Thank you.

The only caveat I'd offer to Richard's suggestion is: if you are caught, as an acquaintance of mine was, you risk not only deportation, but - as with him again - being barred from the US for life.

I did summer camp work in the US when I was a student - 2 stints of 3 months at a time. Fantastic experience, and entirely legit - arranged via an agency (paid their fees out of salary earned there), with a 6 month visa.

I've bought and sold things on eBay and Amazon Marketplace and have made a bit here and there - though the more people that advertise a particular product, the more the price is driven down. I know people who make a kind of living (or second income) that way, though - trawling around shops, picking up bargains, etc. They're the kind of people I love getting behind at the Post Office!

Hi Steve, what a lot of flack you are taking and it's nice to hear you gave a little back also. There will be a way out of this hellish situation you are in, even though it might not be obvious right now. One thing is you are showing some remarkable work capacity and courage under fire, and despite everything you are performing above above and beyond at work, which definitely deserves a serious "well done".

As to what I would do. Well I like to think that I would have your courage to talk about it. Something that helps ease the stress and maybe gain some perspective. And then I guess I would be ready for the next battle. I don't disagree with any of the suggestions above, but my instinct tells me you will find a way out or through...

Ironically, I just took a call right now and a two year plus long case has just come to an end. With a very favourable result for me. And so for you I just know you will do what is right. You have a very fine mind, I think we can all see that, you show courage, and fighting spirit that is more like dragon than chiwauwa. (you know how to spell it) Good luck matey.

I'm incredibly good looking and incredibly wealthy. These are accidents. Well one of them is. I quite enjoyed this post. There are lots of good stories here. I'm awarding this post a cherry that can be sold on ebay.

Stan, you're right, that was a gross generalisation. For some people being out of work is for the best while they recuperate and recharge especially for people like you who do voluntary work. I meant those people who give up work, find themselves with no money to spare after necessities are paid and face long days and nights looking at four walls and finding it difficult to get another job.

My personal history is coming out of care with no qualifications, not even CSE's as they were then. I did a PRC course which as well as being a preliminary nursing course gave me my basic maths/English/sciences. From there I did a three year S.E.N. nursing course. I was a general ward nurse for ten years, then quite by fluke, I blagged my way into a job as an Occupational Therapist. I didn't have the necessary qualifications but was keen and enthusiastic, which is what got me the job. They flung every course going at me and for seven years I worked in a mental health facility on the secure unit. After that it was all change again and I did care in the community nursing, which was basically a carer with a few extra duties.

Then I decided to change tack completely. I quit my job and out of work I applied for twenty-six jobs and said that I'd take the first one offered. I got the one that I really didn't want. Working in a sex shop.

Six months later I became the manager after the existing manager was jailed. For five years I did well. Really enjoyed my job, brought the shop up from its knees to being a respectable shop like any other in town. And then it all went horribly wrong. I was forced by the company to sell legal highs. Within weeks I was Barrow's biggest drug dealer. They told me to leave if I didn't want to sell them. I had a nice house (rented) a teenage son, and yes, I liked the high wage. I was scum. I hated what I was doing but didn't turn down the five and a half grand bonus that they gave me in the first three months. That was the one and only bonus, they stopped them after that. I used to tell my customers not to buy them but was still doing between three and eleven grand's worth of sales a day. The company was very careful to stay within the law.

It all culminated when eight coppers burst through my door, handcuffed me, threw me to the floor and left me there for an hour and a half. I was arrested and told that if they found one illegal substance I'd be looking at five years. Of course they didn't and I was de-arrested. My bosses offered me a pizza for the stress.

It hit the newspaper and I was ostracised

I was egged in the street, refused taxi's and abused every time I went out.

I deserved every damned thing I got.

I was so scared of quitting and losing my home, or ending up on six quid an hour.

On a Friday an Saturday night between six and eight my till would be so full that I couldn't get anymore into it. I'd have a box at my feet, the shop would be packed with a constant flow of people and I'd literally take their thirty quids and give them their powders and throw the money into the box until I could lock the door, and put the money in the safe. Head office carefully controlled their stock so I had to count the monmey divide it by thirty and then sit scanning up to a hundred packets of powder into the till before opening the door and letting the next lot in.

I had a big bat behind the till and for those two years I waited for blokes in ski-masks to come bursting through the door and hurt me. My shop had no windows. I was a woman alone. I was a sitting target and to this day am amazed that it never happened.

Now, I work in an office for little above minimum wage, I live in a rented ex-council house and after paying bills, car ect, I'm broke but at least I have a clear conscience. I'm looking for a better job, but there's nothing about for somebody my age. I've done some bad things in my life... but that is one of the worst. I should have had the integrity to quit the day they tried to force me to sell those things. I made the company owner a very rich man. While I took all the flack and I deserved it. So sometimes, yes, it is best to be out of work.

I sold legal highs too. In truth it was all the same drug, only with different flavourings so that customers would think they could choose from lots of different ones. Although still legal to this day, it is one of the filthiest drugs around and responsible for the addiction and health problems of many people on ABCtales. I sold it.

Like Sooz I pushed my drugs from a shop. My shop was called the Greyhound Inn. We didn't encourage customers to call us a drug shop and we certainly didn't want them calling our merchandise 'drugs'. We encouraged cute names like 'booze' and 'drinky-poohs'.

Like Sooz I didn't make any money out of it myself, although the shop owner, Enterprise Inns, made plenty.

Before Sooz posted her comment I would have been too ashamed to admit it but I feel better to have got it off my chest. If you'd ever seen anybody on a booze trip you'd never want to see it again. They can't speak properly, they stagger about, become aggressive, sometimes punch through windows, vomit, piss anywhere and everywhere. It's disgusting.

Funnily enough, I never had any trouble getting a taxi, even when people found out I was pushing alcohol. They seemed to regard it as quite normal.

I am not in any sense joking, by the way. I sold the drug and there are many here who can vouch for its effects on their mental and physical health.

So FTSE, you're beating about the bush here, do you think Steve should try and get a bar job or not?

As long as he doesn't sell cigarettes. The ones they have these days, cigars, are far stronger than the cigarettes we used to smoke. It's not the same thing at all.

Hey Steve,
If you loved New York last year, it'll be just as good this year. Go on, do a subversive Louise Mensch.
My only tips on not getting caught;
****Don't be a twat
****Don't hang around with nutters/twats
****Choose your friends carefully (people that get caught want to get caught, and they usually drag others down with them)
****Don't show any fear when confronted by the law. Act as if you belong there from the moment you step off the plane
(There's one amazingly simple, harmless but quite devious trick for getting, and keeping, a job there, so email me if you'd like to know)
My mate Simon's an addict and was big in NA there but he kept that side of his life to himself. He probably knew that if he told me I had a problem I'd have laughed in his face, and my denial was so strong that he probably did but I blanked it out.
I had to find out for myself. I'm an arrogant old sod so it's taken quite a while. What a big waste of time though.
It took drug-induced psychosis at 32 for me to see I had a problem and even when I was carted off to a psychiatric hospital it still took months to shake off my crazed belief that I was Jesus and that computers were killing human endeavour. So much for my powerful mind...
Over there, people get clean really young and become the person they deserve to be while they're still fresh and can use their beautiful wildness to good effect. I kind of regret going too far but that was my path. It needn't be yours, and New York's a place where they encourage clean time. There's no place for our shitty social class system but there are the usual backstabbers and waspy knobs/knobettes. If you're clean, they won't stand a chance of tricking you or hurting you. Simon knew damn well that he'd have been out of there and on his knees in weeks if he'd picked up.
Sooz, you're one fine woman.

Blimey, Richard... You've got me tempted now!

And me, should we all do a mass exodus? ABCTales hits NY.

Tony... any chance of an ABCTales night at the Houndstooth Pub, NYC? Junction of 8th and W 37th? Nice and close to the bus terminal!

Tell me about it Stan, it's incredibly tempting.

I've always had a path set out for me. It consists of what my parents and friends believe life is. All the pain in my life has been incurred trying to avoid that path at all costs, while living in a section of society which facilitates ONLY that path (GCSEs, A-levels, uni, ultra competitive job, wife, kids, retirement, death, and slight variations on this theme). This is the South East of England; this is where I grew up, and for better or worse, I'll always be slightly tied to it. My self esteem is lower as a 'productive member' of this society than it is as a bum, because we've got it all wrong; too many blinkered people for whom existential thinking is lumped with quantum physics, economics and philosophy, and chucked in a drawer somewhere. Why should I feel passionate about helping humanity forge the wrong path, even in my small, insignificant way?

A culture doesn't have to be hippyish to make me happy. I love the Mediterranean cultures I have experienced, where the family ethic is stronger, and life is slower paced, and look at their relationship with things like alcohol, incidentally. These are largely Catholic societies, and although organised religion is bad in my opinion, at least it provides a level of spirituality, which, I think, picks up the slack of a cold and uncaring reality. (This could be achieved without religion, but you can't have everything). I'm not saying they are perfect; corruption, no money, etc., but Britain is similar in these two stakes, and would likely be much worse than somewhere like Italy if it didn't keep creating frivolous markets to create capital. e.g. Whipping people into a fervour over TV talent shows, getting them to spend more money on voting every year. I wonder how much TV talent show voting is worth to the telecoms industry now? Hand car washes, higher rates of VAT, top-up fees, aspirational magazines, they are goading and squeezing us, trying to keep the books balanced as more and more of our money goes to the private sector and into the pockets of the super-rich. Well, you can roll a tube of toothpaste up, but eventually there will be no more toothpaste.

Anyway, I'm always off on some tangent or another. I hate this country, but I'd struggle without my family and friends, and I'm so nervous/anxious, I don't have any energy left for making myself happy. What I want is a wooden shack in the middle of nowhere and my thoughts, the way I'm feeling at the moment.

First world problems, eh!?

Sooz, everyone can see that what happened to you was not your fault. I can see where the guilt comes from, but you shouldn't feel it - you had to survive - and FTSE, how could you sell this 'drinky-poos' stuff to unsuspecting people? The stuff is poison. I think they should just tax it more and filter all the money into a bureaucratic black hole just to teach us a lesson. ;)

I could have just about written that!

Work - buy - consume - die.

I've spent my life feeling like a piece from the wrong puzzle.

And then they tell me I've got a personality disorder!

Thank fuck for that, I say.

'I've always had a path set out for me..(GCSEs, A-levels, uni, ultra competitive job, wife, kids, retirement, death, and slight variations on this theme)'

I know exactly what you mean, and I know exactly how one can struggle with such a thing. On one hand, I want so much to steer clear of this path, and to avoid being bound by it. On the other hand: school, family, friends - so many aspects of life consistently preach this idea that it becomes difficult to see any other way, or at least to see another way as a positive direction in life.

It's how we're conditioned.

It's 'normal' to do this, do that, do the other... it's what everyone else does.

Time to wheel out the old Bob Dylan line again: 'It makes no sense to follow the herd, because where the herd's been the food's already been eaten.'

When I was a civil servant, I had job security, a generous pension scheme, private health care if I wanted it (I didn't), a high salary, a nice margin of disposable income, a car, a mortgage.... and I'd never been unhappier in my life. I felt 'I'm not doing this for me... I'm doing it because it's expected of me.'

I have a feeling it won't be too many more years before my disillusionment gets the better of me. I'll cash in what remaining chips I still have, then set off to see where life takes me. It's just too predictable. Voluntary service appeals. Teaching, say, in a country where life is a bit more precarious, and where daily survival depends on more fundamental things than how many FaceBook friends you've got, or how often your friends down the street text you, or how many tunes you've got on your iPod, or what design to have for your next tatt, or what the neighbours are buying, or who Britney Spears is shagging....