BBC Censorship?

It's probably just that our boys have finally got their body armour.

Sounds like it really was just too grisly - it seems that a crowd of cheering Iraqis dragged the burnt and mutilated bodies of four contractors through the streets of Falluja after killing them in a vehicle ambush. It's hard to imagine the sheer hatred that can inspire such actions!

Mind you one of the outstanding images of the Vietnam war was a young child running along a road, screaming, with its clothes on fire. Sometimes horrendous images have profound effects on the viewers and give a shocking insight into the reality and horror of the situation. Of course 6pm is far too early!

See Haiku thread.

that child was naked, no clothes... its body was burnt. Doesnt come more shocking than that. Shame about compassion fatigue...

You're perfectly correct on both counts, Liana.

Not a justification but perhaps a partial explanation of the horror of Fallujah. Patrick Graham in Falujah : Sunday September 28, 2003 The Observer. "Standing by the grave of his dead brother, Sheikh Abed Asalam Jamil says he is happy and calls for a jihad against the US Army. 'Everyone in Iraq is a mujahid,' says the imam, whose brother, Zamal Jamil al-Juleimi, was killed on Friday night as he returned from a doctor's appointment with his family. 'The people of this country will raise the flag of jihad.' Zamal was shot dead, along with his wife and her mother, Beijah. Their son, Haider, who was sitting in the back of the pick-up, lies wounded in the hospital in Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad, in the heart of the Sunni triangle." Predictably, things have gone from bad to worse since the horrific events on Thursday in Falluja. At least a hundred Iraqis have been killed and hundreds more wounded in various confrontations involving US led allied forces including tanks and helicopters. The worst incident appears to be yesterday’s battles when U.S.-led forces killed 9 foreign troops and 49 Iraqis in Baghdad and near the shrine city of Najaf. Iraq's U.S. administrator Paul Bremer vowed to crack down on firebrand Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr who has been blamed for much of the trouble. [%sig%]

By the way - it's really worth following the link to get an idea of why these people are so bitter and how easily it can all go wrong! "Ironically, Zamal was exactly the kind of Iraqi the Americans hoped to win over. As manager of the local grain silo, his salary had increased under the new regime. Colleagues explained that Zamal and other educated men and women supported US efforts. This makes his death all the more bitter and, for his family, incomprehensible."

“The 82nd has a bloody history in Falujah. In April the division killed 18 protesters and wounded 78. Two weeks ago they killed eight policemen chasing bandits. 'We're taught to shoot back with everything we've got,' said a former member of the 82nd, now working for a private security firm in Baghdad.” Extract from “Failure of the 82nd airborne“ - December 19, 2002 “It began operations intended to dig out enemy forces from the villages of eastern Afghanistan. Newsweek described as "a disaster" its first high-profile mission, quoting other US troops and civilian witnesses. They said that 600 soldiers had gone on the rampage in Operation Mountain Sweep, undoing in minutes six months of community building. They went through villages "as if Bin Laden was in every house", said one of the US army's own special forces soldiers. So serious were the complaints from other units about the conduct of the 82nd airborne that the army took sworn statements from all the officers and senior NCOs involved. The civilian casualties have not been accounted for. The 82nd is continuing to conduct cordon and search operations and has reduced media access. “

Sat through BBC's news at 10 to see if they would show extra footage from Iraq but they had pulled the item altogether!

Michael Grade seems like a reasonable choice for BBC chairman. Anyone any reason to think differently? [%sig%]

Back to Iraq: I saw the report on the One o'clock news. On that edition, the correspondent did say the pictures were to horrific to show but for some strange reason, they rolled anyway. I saw a charred body by the car. I saw the body parts hanging from a bridge. I saw a body being dragged behind a car followed by a large pack of rejoicing hyenas singing and dancing. It was the latter that I found horrific - so called human beings taking pleasure in a spectacle like that makes me sick. Yes, I too remember those scenes of the poor child burnt by napalm, it was tragic, but I did not see Americans rejoicing at the barbarity of it. And, I'm sure that any medical treatment she received was supplied, if not by the Americans, by one of their western allies. [%sig%]

I think censorship when it is done correctly and in an unbiased way --and not for political or religious reasons-- is necessary in many cases. After all communication/telecommunication is something modern societies have acquired due to technological achievements/progress, imagine people of the ancient times watching all the details of war, what was going on in battles! I think it would have made them more vindictive, less able to make peace, OR less courageous--sometimes I think all they want to do is scare us! After all we must realize that nobody is REALLY informing us -- the information that we ALL learn has been very carefully selected! What the militarists PLAN for our future is Top Secret and the war hawks are probably those that 'choose' the shots, just to 'shoot' public opinion. There are bullets and there are 'bullets'.

I might as well add that I rarely watch the news, especially after working for the news department of a TV channel and seeing how manipulative and manipulated journalism has unfortunately become.

Your post puts me in mind of that footage of Bin Laden celebrating the Twin Towers.

Not only Bin Laden but many "British" citizens living in Britain, who turn to the British government when arrested on charges of terrorism abroad. [%sig%]

Missed this on Sunday but it confirms much already guessed. Getting difficult to see how Blair can survive and might explain why Mr Bush was in such a good mood yesterday (NOT). Bush and Blair made secret pact for Iraq war · Decision came nine days after 9/11 · Ex-ambassador reveals discussion " Meanwhile, the Foreign Office legal department was telling him that without a second resolution war would be illegal, a view that Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney-General, seemed to share at that stage." [%sig%]

Well as I've said before in other words, scenes like that expose the true nature of a section of Islam. A pox on every one of them. The girl portrayed in that famous pic from the Vietnam war was treated by Americans and now lives happily in Canada.

Hate rejoices in revenge! The American and Israelis are no better! Perhaps that girl survived, Missi, but she was a symbol for thousands of others who didn't.

yeah dya want to know a good point, this will make you think right..what effect is this continuous inmagery of violence and war going to have on the minds of the children of today and tommorrow, the kids might as well be on the battlefield with the soldiers, dya get what i mean yet? because its really something society wants to start thinking about a bit more....before it spirals out of control...dont say sd never mentioned it first..

if it is censorship the bbc wouldn't have still the item on their website would they? if you click on the video link in the top right hand corner you can see the report mykle refers to. From what I've read in my paper today the bodies were mutilated with shovels, dragged through the streets and body parts suspended from a bridge. That's what they 'can't' show.

Thanks for the link, Stormy. "US television networks showed only edited pictures of the incident. Television coverage of a similar incident during the US military presence in Somalia in 1993 caused widespread anger and revulsion among Americans and the US army subsequently withdrew. " Hmm.....

thanks for sharing

As were the four civilians who were burnt and torn to bits before having their body parts desecrated by a bunch of, what can only be decribed as, sub-humans.

I saw this on ABC news last night, repugnant was how Peter Jennings described it.

It has to be said I can't envisage Muslim fundamentalists nurturing an injured Westerner to hold up as a symbol to survival. Is it that they lack hypocrasy?

oooooh nice post emma

yes very nice post indeed!

hmm, indeed mykle. the paragraph you pasted in above is misleading without an earlier para which says the item led on all us news channels although the pictures of the bodies were 'blurred' so viewers could not see the extent of the mutilation. Hardly censorship. By doing that the us channels went further than the beeb who chose not to show bodies at all. I think this was more to do with common decency than than some grand conspiracy. In fairness I did try to watch the video news on cnn and abc to see how they put these appalling scenes over and whether there was any censorship but you needed to be a member, so I didn't. I guess the only way the beeb could convince you would be to show pictures of Iraqis hacking at the bodies. Nice.

It would have been better if I'd spelled it correctly.

Mykle, you present a better case for censorship with every post.

I suppose Raymond Chandler summoned it up in The Big Sleep: "What did it matter where you lay once you were dead? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on top of a high hill? You were dead, you were sleeping the big sleep, you were not bothered by things like that." It has been estimated that some 55,000 others are sleeping the Big Sleep because we thought that Saddam had WOMD - but we didn't see them blown to bits or shot. Many innocent men, women and children were burned to death in their cars by allied troops - but we didn't see that either. It's no wonder there is so much hate in Iraq - in fact it's a miracle there isn't more! [%sig%]

That's alright, Missi, because I've decided to censor myself to keep you happy and this will be one of my last posts. It seems to me that the BBC are being censored, or at least directed, and Channel Four is your best bet for a less biased, more rounded news. Things may change at the BBC under the auspices of Mr Grade - we can only hope. [%sig%]

it wasn't held up as anything other than an horrific icon of the pain and terror of war, and Moslems are just as hypocritical as the rest of the worlds population.

Stormy: By the time I posted that paragraph I was more interested as to why the whole incident had been pulled between the 6 and 10 o'clock news. Following your link I had found an answer that seemed quite likely - that showing such incidents on TV can cause changes in public opinion which puts strong pressure on government to change policy. By "Hmm... " I was hinting that it was suspicious that the item had been dropped and it would not be surprising if it had been for political reasons. After all, if they feel the item is fit to show at 6pm it should surely be OK after the 9pm “watershed” when youngsters are presumed to be in bed. I was making no comment about censorship by 'blurring' bodies or even, by this time, of cutting scenes. Just the genuine worry that that the government have put pressure on the BBC by whatever means. I was obviously not clear in my earlier post and I thank you for pointing that out. I hope this post has served to clarify.

I stand in fear and trembling when I think that my children must learn of these things: 'my pure, unsuspecting child, must gradually be taught to see what people have it in them to do. That, too, is education, the hardest learning of all, and I would have him slowly comprehend the misdirections of humankind, for there are many of them; and he will meet his share, in others and in himself. And if his family does not teach him to read the map of the heart, that maze of traps and dead ends, then who will guide him when he sets out by himself, and what will keep him from getting hopelessly lost, and how will he manage to find his way home?' Barth Landor - A Week in Winter - 2004

A wonderful and thought provoking quote, Emma. It makes me shudder to think of the legacy we are leaving for our children. I’d like to point out that my earlier quote was not in response to you post - I had composed it and then spent 20 minutes wondering whether I should post it. I didn’t want to come over as heartless, or without compassion, but I felt the need to address the inevitable bias such shocking scenes are bound to elicit! We need more love, or at least understanding, but I don't know where we will find it. [%sig%]

It seems to me to be most important that we never allow our dead to 'sleep the big sleep', otherwise we are living in a dream.

Even thicker than usual tonight and I didn't catch your drift, Emma. The Big Sleep is death and Chandler is just saying when you are dead you are dead so it doesn't mattter where your body is, or what state it's in etc. I can't see how this can lead to our living in a dream.

What I am trying to say, perhaps I should go and get some sleep myself, is that we do ourselves a disservice if we do not remember our dead, and especially our tragic dead and let it inform our lives.

It was dirty work but someone had to do it. And that someone was me. I had to convince the United Fora that a rogue forum possesssed a Weapon of Thread Destruction. It should have been as easy as ABC. But the members wouldn't listen. They had bought the dummy. I later came to call this the 'winky-smiley effect'. But that's another story. I stubbed my cigarette out with my toe, tightened the belt on my raincoat and regretted not wearing shoes that night. I caught a flight of fantasy. The squeal of rubber on tarmac told me we had touched down in the state of Amnesia, a short hop from the war-zone that was Self-delusion and the Forgetfullness-of-threads-past. I moved in - without disguise or back-up - to unmask the cheat, the thread destructor, only to find a case of Verbal Diarrhea. Shit happens.

Reminds me of a quote from Gibran’s Prophet, Emma : You would know the secret of death. But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life? [%sig%]

Just as a matter of interest, Stormy, you said "if it is censorship the bbc wouldn't have still the item on their website would they?" Strangely, they have re-edited the story that your link points to and the quote I posted has been removed. Instead of : "US television networks showed only edited pictures of the incident. Television coverage of a similar incident during the US military presence in Somalia in 1993 caused widespread anger and revulsion among Americans and the US army subsequently withdrew. " The nearest references to the earlier one are: "US television networks have been leading their news bulletins with the Falluja story but show only edited pictures of the grisly scenes, with the bodies blurred. The contractors were ambushed and killed as they drove through Falluja, triggering scenes which have shocked America and fuelled debate over the cost of the conflict in Iraq." "BBC Middle East analyst Roger Hardy says the killings cast a shadow over the US-led coalition's timetable for handing over power in Iraq within three months as well, perhaps, as President Bush's re-election campaign." Hmm..... [%sig%]

Thanks :o) , that's a nice quote. Sorry Mr Bowel, but I have no respect for my superiors in the military, you have sacrificed yourself to an illusion, you are a mirage. Themes may be repeated ad infinitum in the conversations of the little men, until the end of the world.

That quote is stupid bloody rubbish and is just the kind of crap you find enlightening and mysterious, mykle. It doesn't mean a damned thing.

Just to clear up any misunderstanding; the point I was trying to make is quite simple: War and all that goes with it is a terrible. Revelling in it is even worse. The sight of those civilians' corpses was grotesque but it was the expressions of glee on the faces of that rabble that brought me close to vomiting. The fact that these creatures probably hadn't got the courage to carry out the actual killings but wanted to be seen as supporting those who did by reacting like a hoard of savengers after the lions kill magnifies my disdain. My father and two brothers both saw active service with the British Armed Forces. They probably killed people, I don't know - they never talked about it and certainly didn't brag about killing, or take trophies. I do not believe the barbarous atrocities I saw on that TV broadcast are limited to a particular race, creed or country. In fact we had a similar incident happen on our own soil when P.C. Blakelock was murdered on the Park Farm Estate. Although there was no footage, one eye-witness was quoted as saying, "I knew a copper had been killed when a cheer went up from the crowd... they wanted to stick his head on a pole and parade it around the estate." I refuse to accept that there is, or ever can be, any jusification for such acts of inhumam behaviour. I am also more than bewildered that those who see themselves as pacifists should seek to provide that justification through clever quotes and metaphors. [%sig%]

I don't read any justification in any of the above posts. Your accusation concerns me.

>>>this will be one of my last posts<<< if only. can't wait till you or your mate (and you are his many email supporters no doubt) resurface under yet another id. gosh what fun you guys have. i can see you giggling away behind your screens.

I hope this explaination might enlighten you a little, Missi ;o) A man was looking for his keys when a kind man stopped to help. After a few minutes the kind man said "Have you any idea where you were when you lost them?" The other man replied "Why, yes, I was over there somewhere." "Then why are you looking over here?" said the kind man. "Well, there isn't a light over there!" If you want to know about death, studying the dead may help but the keys of life have been lost and remain with the living. [%sig%]

Just watched the report tonight... isnt it strange.. i am sure that the Bush/Blair camp said that the war on iraq would change life there. No more brutal murders... thank goodness for that eh? Cant wait to see who is elected as president next.