Why do you read abctales?

Because it's free. Not in terms of cost ( though thats nice ) but because anyone can write here, about any subject, in any form, and be read. There are no rejection letters, and any criticism is constructive. I used to have quite a narrow taste in reading before I found this site. It has been an education for me, and a lot of fun. Like Martin I actually got up in front of a room full of people at the last event and read, something I would never have thought myself capable of before. If you wat a real taste, be in Covent Garden on Saturday.

ABC is an experimental place for me.. where I come to test out new and sometimes half baked ideas.. There appears less of an inhibition here for people to try and stretch themselves in new directions.. perhaps because criticism tends to be mainly constructive. As a result there is a creative buzz around the place.. and occasionally spectactular pieces emerge. As a reader, I have found much to interest and amuse.. there is a wide variety of fresh/raw material.. and its a particular joy to discover pieces by talented writers in the process of finding out their voices.

Most of my own reasons for reading material on the site have already been mentioned . Many of my friends who do not write, read my work on the site because they want to know whats going on in my head and get a better understanding of me and some of them, impressed by the standard have started to read other abctalers work also. From time to time I write something here (which is too difficult for me to say) for my psychotherapist to read and send her the URL. The reason I post it here and not email it directly is that it is then a bold public statement of truth. j

It's easy to use, it's packed full of talent, imagination, inspiration and fun people, you get genuine feedback and constructive criticism, and (this is just a personal bonus really) much as I love you guys, I've never met any of you, so I don't feel embarrassed about you all seeing my work, whereas I do with friends and family...uh, real friends, not virtual ones...not that you're all just figments of my imagination or anything....never mind. The fact that it's free is largely irrelevant - I think even if I had to pay for the priviledge, I would. There's nowhere else like it on the net

Hi It's Stephen from the BBC again trying to cut the crap. If readers are happy to explore ABCTales are they also happy to walk into a book shop and pick books at random, select authors they'd never heard of nor had any information about them? Is reading on abctales like going to a blind wine tasting? How do you know how good the material is when you've never heard of them, had no jacket cover blurb and haven't read a review in the Times or Observer? Stephen

That's the fun of it. Hitting the random button and not knowing what you're gonna get. Sure, you might have to read through a few pieces that maybe aren't your kind of thing, but it's great to find a piece that really gets you going, makes you think 'I wish I'd written that'. That in turn leads to discovering a whole new writer, devouring all their stuff. It's free, and most pieces are fairly short. It doesn't matter about knowing how good the material is, it's about the finding out of good material that I like :)

You taste, then, if you like, you buy a bottle, or perhaps even a case. A bad review in the papers doesn't stop me from reading a book. I'm happy to make up my own mind. I know good writing when I see it - and bad. I take your point, however. We do live in a culture where visibility is taken for quality. This is not always the case.

reading on abctales CAN be like a blind wine tasting ... but there really isnt much of a risk involved is there? ... if you click on a name you haven't seen before and you don't like what you see you can just click back browser ... a lot of the work gets read on here due to recommendation and the development of reputation ... there are certain writers i will always read as i KNOW they will be good quality ... and these are the writers i would recommend to others ... so it is in no way anonymous ... if a good writer turns up then a whisper goes round ... either on the forums or in private communication ... sometimes liana and i have raced to email someone new about their work if it impressive ... and we are competitive about who mails back too ... it's all part of it ... i would happily try out books by writers from bookshops in the same way ... i've been involved in reading groups where the books are just handed out and the feedback has been that people like trying something new this way ... and i have heard of library promotions where books were issued in brown paper bags (so people couldnt see what book they were borrowing) to get people trying something different ... and these were incredibly popular ... i think people wont risk their hard cash in waterstones on someone who might not be their thing ... altho i tend to ignore publishers hype and reviews and whatnot and go again with personal recommendation or i just open the book and try the first page ... so it isnt SO different from reading on here perhaps ...

Stephen Good point. I guess you take chances on new writers. It’s certainly cheaper here. I think maybe a few months ago there was a core of writers being read who had carved out a reputation for themselves on the site. They were also being pro-active within the forums, which also gave them extra kudos. It was getting very dull to tell you the truth. I am not disrespecting these fine writers at all; it just felt that they were almost holding the balance of power on the site. I was part of that myself. But, while we were all prancing around in the forums the back door was left ajar and recently there has been a big influx of new writers who are seriously cutting the mustard. They don't really contribute to the forums, they just write and put it in there own sets. I think this caught many of the sites established writers on the hop, which is a good thing. This site is about many things, friendship, encouragement, and inclusiveness. It is not about exclusion. It was in danger of that but has overcome by the sheer talent of its contributors. abctales is a wonderful thing, long may it continue. Ralph

I do walk into bookshops and pick up books at random and have discovered some great stuff by doing so. I also feel that in doing so I am being guided by providence and not the opinion of the Times Literary Supplement. Not to be recommended in America though, you might stumble across the most Godawfull crud.

Exploration is part of the fun.. then sharing a discovery with other open minded friends is pleasurable too.. As for sources for new material.. why restrict yourself. Friends, Book shops, Radio progs, Newspaper Reviews, web sites etc Agree with fish better to taste out a bit by reading first page or so before wasting hard earned cash.

Stephen, said already probably but.. when you go into a bookshop and buy a book, you are committing two things - time with one author (unless buying a collection of poems/short stories by various authors, of course), and cash. on abc, all stories are short - max 2000 words generally. so time spent with any one author is reduced. and if you don't like an author, you click the back button, and find something you do like. thus the need for recommendations is reduced because the requisite time input into reading a piece of work by a particular author is reduced. this time factor advantage might be offset by the fact that, if there were a lot of dross on the site, it would be time-consuming to find something worth reading. but because the standard of work on the site is usually very high, and recommendations are posted in the forums, or e-mailed, there is no adverse effect. and because you pay nothing to read, the 'getting your money's worth' principle which pertains to a purchase in a bookshop, is rendered invalid.

and i think the site offers another advantage to the modern (working) reader. i hear a lot of my colleagues complain that they like reading, but don't have the time for it. now because the stories on abc are short, and on computer, a brief read can be incorporated into the working day. this is particularly useful as most jobs these days seem to require you to be sitting in front of a computer for most of the time. you can't exactly get out a book at work. but you can inconspicuously click on a web site for ten minutes or so. for me, my abc story of the day is a vital component of my arduous and boring working day. i hope you get radical on your programme. i hope you say how dull working life is for most of us. how increasingly overqualified people are to do the jobs that are on offer. how some 'creative' or 'culture-related' sweetener is required in order to get through the working life.

Fish makes a good point about being able to highlight authors or individual pieces in the forums. I've found most such posts to be very helpful.

Now I see writing and reading can still be a revolutionary act and revolutionaries are interesting..p'raps there's more money to be made from this than the bland stuff we've been promoting to date..or maybe money isn't the point at all..better buck our ideas up fast..

... oh and i have harped on about this before ... but i think it bears a repeat ... early this year i attended abc's Letters Academy writing course ... very interesting it was too and enjoyable ... there was a panel debate as part of the course and the panel consisted of (including others) a literary agent from curtis brown and a publisher type person ... they both were convincing in their view that both publishers and agents were gagging for new talent but when asked if they used the web (and specifically abc) for talent spotting they both admitted they didn't ... the answer actually came from one of them (can't remember which) ... that perhaps when Good Writers were attracted to posting on sites such as ABC then they might well talent spot here ... needless to say there were many repressed sniggers in the room and a few gasps of astonishment ... tom made the point earlier in the thread that there is work on this site that is as good as any you can find anywhere else ... many of the writers on the site are published in various ways already ... but i think the point i'd like to make is that the site serves two breeds of writer who find it difficult and perhaps nigh on impossible to find a readership in the traditional world of publishing ... i mean short story writers and poets ... the market for short stories in this country is shamefully tiny (as tom knows to his cost being Not A Novelist) and the poetry press tho well established and full of kudos for the poet actually has a very small readership ... i know that if i submit a poem to a small mag and by some miracle it is accepted then i will wait months for publication and that the mag will actually have a very small circulation ... my poem might get what ... 50 reads? 70? in its lifetime ... if i post on abc the poem is there more or less immediately and when i had a recent clearout of work that had been on here for months some of the poems had in excess of 900 reads ... so i am hanging in for a sea change in the attitude to web publishing ...

Dear All Again Fish makes an interesting point. I too was at the letters Academy Course and found the big boys and girls from the publishing houses quite patronising when it came to writing on the web. I felt that their bottom line was that there had to be money in it for them to be viable but it all looked jolly good fun. Like Fish I have been published a few times in small magazines that consider themselves to be very hip. So hip that no one reads them and they are very difficult to find in the shops. You get the feeling that you are not really progressing. ABC gives everyone an audience that is the most important thing about this site surely. No one should be excluded. The motive of the writer is very important here. To be part of a movement or to be self-seeking. Both hopefully. Very tricky. Hope I have not confused you all. Ralph

I wish I could get 900 reads! I was with Jane Bradish-Ellames at Curtis-Brown for a while - she wanted a novel and (honest) I did try. She didn't even want to use the fax machine in the office let alone e-mail or the Net. Agents and publishers are years behind the times.

I'm interested to know, Tom, why it is you feel you 'can't' write a novel? Mainly because I don't seem to be able to, either... *feels maybe she should start a new thread*

I have always written short stories for my own amusement and occasionally tried to get them published or entered them in competitions run by magazines or local radio stations etc. But the market for short stories in the UK is tiny and confined mainly to women's magazines who want a particular length, format and subject matter. Nobody wants to publish collections of short stories, you have some chance of getting your novel accepted but if you are hawking around a bunch of short stories your chances are practically zero. So the obvious alternative is publication on the Web, where you will at least get a bit of feedback and know that SOMEBODY is reading what you write. Of course you aren't going to make any money out of it but for most of us that is not the prime consideration. You can always dream of being "discovered" on the site, but I haven't heard of any instance in which it has happened. Another point is that compared with other sites of this kind there is very little complete dross on ABC, for whatever reason the overall standard of the writing here is quite high, and in some cases superb. There must be historical reasons for this, and once established it is a self perpetuating trend. I think it's fair to say that most of the people who use these forums are writers in this "amateur" sense as well as readers. ABC probably has casual visitors ("surfers") who just drop by and read a story or two and go away as well, but I don't know how you are going to communicate with them. It might be possible for the people running the site to give you statistics on how many of the people reading the stories are also registered as ABC writers. The software detects whether you are or aren't a registered user. To me our reasons for being here and using the site seem pretty obvious. Because we want to write, to read what otheres are writing and to develop friendships either to improve our writing or for their own sake.

I've completed two and they weren't any good, Andrea. I took so long both times I bored myself stupid. It's just not for me. On the subject of the publishing world, I think agents and editiors consider the Net to be a bit of a joke. A place fit only for the deluded and the amateur. Pure snobbery really. They live in a circumscribed place, a village where everyone knows everyone else, a cosy litttle community governed by unspoken prejudices. Things will change in time, but I predict that the book business will drag its feet until the very last minute.

if they are anything like record companies then that will be the case! "what - music on re-recordable media??" i imagine a group of old cigar smoking dinosaurs having meetings over lunch possibly talking about some usual crap on radio 2/4. i think if you got rid of the people who were involved in that then you would have a receptive audience. ive still got an essay to do

Stephen, I do indeed go into a book shop and pick books randomly. I do the same thing on ABC, however its free and by reading and participating in the forums you get an idea of the person behind the writing. (something you can't do in a book shop). I have little confidence in my writing, but at least here you can you can put out your work without the "classroom" fear. Someone, somewhere will catch your initial concept and if they don't then at least it's a learning curve. Unfortunately I haven't attended the social ABC gatherings, but by all accounts they are a great laugh! This site delves deeper into writing, not only by having access to loads of great work, but by being able to *speak* to the folk behind the poem/story making everyone here approachable. Of course, you get the odd clown who tries to mess things up, but it rarely has any detromental effect. Before ABC I was narrow minded in my personal choice of reading, now I feel that I could read about anything! The forums and discussion boards are optional, if you don't like any of the topics then you simply don't read them! It's your choice.

When I walk into a bookshop I pick books at random and usually have a look at the first page. If the first paragraph doesn't grab me I stop reading and put it back on the shelf. Same here - I start to read something and if the first paragraph doesn't grab me I stop reading. Just because its not in a bookshop, hasn't been reviewed in a national newspaper / magazine doesn't mean its not very good, it just means its not published. Writing sites on the web like ABCTales goes back to the idea of a community of writers - people who get together to read and comment on each others stuff. It's the coffeehouse for the 21st Century. In my mind the sense of a movement in writing has been lost as publishing has become more commercialised - if you write something you now feel more isolated unless you get published, the web changes that, you can get feedback but, most importantly, hopefully, someone is reading what you have written. It also brings back the idea of self-publishing - although people do seem unwilling to buy something which hasn't got a fancy cover and is not on the shelf of their local high-street chain bookshop. When the printing press was first invented people self-published, the web is re-inventing these aspects of writing. For my own work I want feedback, if I write something how do I know if it's good or bad? Which is why I post my writing here. I also read here because there's some good writing here.

I was also at the Letters Academy and agree with fish. Some of the panelists sounded like they were just now hearing rumours about something called "email" but weren't quite sure what it was just yet. I also agree about the self-publishing option. That is becoming less expensive by the day. With digital printing on demand technology, the set up costs are very reasonable (assuming you provide them with a formatted document) and small print runs are quite reasonable. More traditional methods become less expensive after 500-1000 copies, but the beauty is that with digital you can print 100 now, then 100 after 6 months, etc and it's no big deal.

hey Stephen! i'm a writer (and reader) on the site. to start with, i read other people's work just to check out the vibe of the site, and the competition. now i read to learn - the best writers here are offering what are effectively free masterclasses in writing. i also read for pleasure to alleviate the boredom of the working day.

Stephen Perry. Cut the crap and make it happen.

Stephen I read abctales because the work is immediate, fresh and untouched by others. Ralph

I read Abctales to check out the competition. And to get jealous when its good And To feel pleased with myself when the stuff I read is worse than mine (IMO)

i ead abctales because i cant read anywhere near enough poetry... he library has stocked the same titles for years, and only once ina blue moon is anything fresh published. on abctales, there are exceptional writers, and its all free.... when i write and post stuff here, i get positive feedback (along with the occasional negative but hey) and im able to do the same for others. its a writes/readers workshop. its free. its a community - theres nothing else like it.

i also type whilst laying face down on the bed... hence multi typos. grrrrr

Yes, the immediacy appeals to me too. It is also very exciting to watch fresh writers blossom and develop. ABCtales has a raw, tantalisingly 'dangerous' edge to it. It is theatre as opposed to film, I suppose. It is also a source of pride to have been with the site for a while. There is a feast of prose here and you can dip in and out of genres, find experimental stuff at the touch of a button and always be surprised by the quality and scope of submissions. I am a writer too but I have recommended the site to the 'others' out there! The forums also are a little side dish to the main feast, where works are often recommended or alluded to. It's basically an on-line writers' coffee house, where we all put the manuscripts on the table and have a ponder.

hello stephen i’m also a reader and writer. i read because i enjoy it; the site has a good number of strong writers i can read for free, and of course i always hope that reading a lot of good stuff might rub off on my own writing... i also have some friends on the site i can count on to read my stuff and tell me where i’m going wrong. it’s interesting too to have read many people’s work over a period of time...as a reader this gives me a feeling of personal involvement which would otherwise be impossible i think

to start with i read and contributed to abc because i didnt think there was anywhere else to do such a thing. after a while i got to see that beyond a limited few people there was only a number of readers who dropped in on my poems just to rate them down, and after a while of receiving 4 lots of 1 on several, i had to turn off the ratings option, thereby stripping the site of any significant appraisal system. nowadays i tend to look at the site as a community, one which is not so much focussed on writing as itself. there are all types here, some likeable and some i wouldn't even use as a lilo on a sea of excrement. but hey, that's what makes it compelling!

Hello Stephen, I don't consider myself to be a great writer, I write for my own enjoyment and I find posting my work very cathartic as I havn't just stuffed it in a drawer somewhere but put it up there for all the world to read. I feel that my writing has improved since I joined ABCTales over a year ago, and that is mostly from feed back and reading other writers work. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the discipline to devote myself to it. I do consider myself to be a great reader however, I read much more on the site than I post myself. I get a lot of personal satisfaction from liking a piece which is then cherry picked and/or made story/poem of the day. I wouldn't say that I help other writers improve because the peices I enjoy are usually form people far more talented than me, in fact I can't often explain why I like a peice, but I get a buzz from the fact that the editors usually agree with me. The forums on the other hand are a source of constant pleasure for me. I feel the sense of community, mentioned by the others above, very keenly. I love the fact that you can talk about absolutely anything here...even if you're in a bad mood...even the fact that you're IN a bad mood. It's fun, come and join us.

no answers from pure readers yet. but do they read the forum? perhaps not. like the others above .... I read and write. by reading the work of other people on this site I would like to think that my own writing has improved in the last year since i began to write and I have developed an interest in poetry that did not exist previously. I have learned to read analytically and can now produce a constructive crit on someones work. I'm not here to check out the competition though. The competition is already on the bookshelves. I see this place as a proving ground; a learning centre; somewhere to put work that can be read by strangers or indeed strange people. I came to this site without baggage; no relatives to vote for me; no friends either. no one knows I am here. I have, however, made some good friends here and enjoy seeing them develop as writers.

i am a passionate reader of material on the site ... i would say that given the time i read almost everything that is posted in a day ... if i have less time i will go for known names or names i haven't seen before ... i am a writer but i post very few pieces compared with what i read ... the points other people have made are interesting and valid ... one of the strongest things for me is the thing that others have mentioned about watching writers develop on the site ... i can name some who i have watched grow and change as writers in the year i have been involved with the site ... the thing with reading on site as opposed to on the page is precisely that dynamic interactive relationship between the writer and the reader ... and i absolutely agree with liana that it is an excellent way to get your hands (eyes?) on some cracking poetry which can otherwise be fairly inaccessible ... writers NEED to be readers too ... and i have seen people post the odd time saying they are readers only ... but i would think the majority of readers here are writers too getting daily doses of inspiration ...

I'm just an anomaly really, I spend a lot of time on the site but mostly on the discussion boards. I have the odd poem posted but I get my enjoyment from the chat, although I find myself reading stuff by the people I chat with and have become curious about. It's about so much more than reading and writing, it's also about the free exchange of ideas and opinions and socialising both on the site and at the meetings arranged by the site. I have made friends here. And a few enemies, but hell, who wants to be liked by everyone?

I think most people who participate in the forums are writers and readers, so I'm not sure about the "read only" folks. I started submitting to the site simply because I wanted my writing to be read. I've found this very helpful and encouraging. It is the only practical way for someone like me to find an audience and receive feedback. Otherwise, I would be limited to personal friends. When I read other pieces on the site, I am often taken aback by the quality of much of it. It gives me an introduction to styles and themes that would take forever to find in the published markets. Here I can find a huge range of writing in a few minutes. As others have mentioned, the community aspect is very important. It's good to know that others are going through a similar process, or at least have a simillar interest in writing. Besides, it keeps me off the streets at night, which is always a good thing.:)

There's such a range of talent and imagination on this site, that'a what draws me to the reading. And as others have said, it's the raw quality that makes this appealing to me. You can find all this stuff that is otherwise pretty much non-existant in the published world. People always seem to be saying that if you write poetry, there's no hope for success but the fact that ABC does so well, and so many people do read, kinda gives me a little hope :)

We definitely have a community here. And I should make clear, Stephen, that it's much more than just an online community because we meet up from time to time to listen to our best writers read their work, or we sometimes just meet for a drink. I've made a number of good friends during the last year, so it's certainly expanded my social life. The standard of writing on the site, however, is phenomenal! I don't want to start naming names because I'd be bound to leave someone out. But some of the writer's work is so "can't-wait-to-get-back-to-my-book" type of standard (if you know what I mean). I have a loyalty to ABCtales because they've given me a platform to show my work. Whether it's good or not, as a writer I just want people to read my "stuff".

I again both read and write on this site...I can honestly say that the site has enthused me in a way nothing as before (about writing that is) I first posted stuff in July last year...I think I heard about abc on the radio and had an old poem hanging about, I hadn't written for years and just in a fit of blind optimism. posted it. Once I posted one, i had a taste for it, and posted others, and before long had entered a wonderful community. I have received e-mails from strangers about my writing, and those strangers have become friends. I have read a lot of wonderful stuff on here and e-mailed people to tell them so. At first it felt furtive, just posting stuff for strangers to read. Almost seedy...but once I met people, and conversed on-line with others, it proved what a great on-line commintiy abctales is. Saturday night, what seems like hundreds, of abctalers are meeting up....not just to hear poetry being read, but to have a laugh, a drink, and a good time. And most important, for me, at the last abc tales event, I got up and read poetry...something i could never, ever have contemplated doing 7 or 8 months ago, before i discovered the site.

I'm a reader and a writer too. I heard John Bird on the radio when abctales launched, and I just thought it sounded like a good idea. I wanted some feedback on my writing so I put some up and checked back regularly for ratings etc. But then I discovered the forums and now I come here because of the site itself, rather than because of my writing. Truth be told I dont really write much anymore, and I only check up on my posted pieces once in a blue moon - I just spend my times in the forums and reading other peoples work. In a way the forum is my own little soap-opera or local pub. I know all the regulars and their foibles, I know and can predict how they will react to certain things and each other, I know which are the villains and the do-gooders. It's like putting on a pair of slippers :) And the quality of the creative writing itself is fantastic, so I'm never stuck for something to read. Plus I've made a lot of friends through email and stuff, which is great! That's why I come here, basically. I sound like some sad internet geek now, but nevermind...

Well, you see, I'm a 19-year-old American and I usually get in tune with these discussion late because for some reason everyone in Great Britain goes to bed and wakes up incredibly early. Anyway, I found this site because I was looking for a good (and free) place to post the three short stories I've written. And I found this one! And -- best of all -- it has that feature of being able to load and unload your stories AT YOUR OWN WILL! Anyway, all the support I've been getting has really had an impact on my growth as a writer (and reader) and I have written some things that I never thought I would do! I really enjoy reading a lot of the stuff on here, although -- for the life of me -- I'll never understand poetry!

It is that level of interactivity, I suppose. The feeling when you read a story that if you think of a brilliant way of doing a certain thing within it, that you can contact the writer and instead of a six month delay and a stock response, the writer will get in touch, and just might be very grateful for your suggestion. Others have spoken about watching people develop and that's very true. If writing is like magic (and I think it is, a little), then you learn more by walking backstage and watching people get the tricks a little wrong and seeing how they get them right than by watching a highly polished performance. Sooner or later, I'm going to have to pay to read Eddie Gibbons and Barenib, so I'm glad to do it for free and give them my support now.

There's a lot of good writing here, some of it as good as you'll find anywhere. Other writers on the site have been encouraging and friendly, an important factor, I think, as writing is a lonely pursuit. The forums can be great fun.

i agree with things said about reading the forums too ... the things i have read on the forums have delighted me outraged me, made me laugh hysterically ... and there is that great thing where if you find a really good piece of work that affects you ... you can immediately go to the "ABC writing" forum and post a thread about it ... then you can watch as a) the piece gets loads more reads and ratings and b) other people get involved with reading and discussing it ... (witness hovis's piece Crazy Cows and Bull @!#$ which had the wow factor for me ... i posted a thread ... the piece had 3 reads when i saw it first and something like 37 at the end of that day) ... and the forums can be a very creative place too ... as anyone who has been involved with the web soap or Hilda's "Ta Chucks" northern teashop/drinking den ... or many other barking flights of weirdness will tell you ... i think virginia wolff used to write her diaries and letters before she ever started on her fiction ... and i think writing and reading on the forums can have the same limbering effect ...