The truth

Pepsi, I love ya, but I stopped reading after sentence 1. If there is no truth we're kinda fucked? Eh?

Pepsoid, I do not love you. 'May I draw your attention to my latest blog entry?' When I said GYOFB this wasn't quite what I had in mind.

if there were absolutely no absolutes then that's an absolute truth. An objective truth gained through observation and repetition is not a "truth" in itself. As I've said before, science can only stregthen a theory or discredit it (based on the 'world of appearances) so never claims to have a 'pure truth'. If we're aware (which we are) that 'our truth' only stretches as far as our senses allow then we're destined to be forever exposed to new insights but forever limited by our nature. Aristotle wrote only of tricolour rainbows. Other travellers spoke of 'wine red' seas. This goes to prove that as we evolve and transcend the survival struggle we are 'permitted' new insights. But it's also a fallacy to dream that we're somehow 'destined' as beings to find some ultimate reality, cos we're not. So, dunno what the answer to your question is :)) Some are investigating the possibility that the only universal truth is purely mathematic. That's why some are expanding on 'we are simulations' argument because the more we delve the more it appears that we're nothing but strings of bits and bobs... info..algorithms..or whatever. So if we're competent enough in the future to manipulate the 'codes' or whatever and simulate it then we can'r rule out that it's already been done. So we may be a cosmic joke. hahaha! Maybe that's who God is. The essence of the bod who created the simulation? hoo There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

Urban Dictionary is your friend, Peps.

No, not really, but... *sigh* Look, I just find it astonishing that you can take a rich, varied topic like epistomology and render it so utterly, utterly banal. In fact, I'm almost impressed. Almost. It probably reflects the weakness of my character rather than any failing in your good self, but Jesus Christ man, if you must subject us to thread after thread of your winsome pub philosopher musings, could you at least do some research beforehand or think of something original/entertaining to say? Bone up on the radical skepticism of Descartes; study Kant's Critique of Pure Reason; explore the possible philosophical ramifications of Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle or Godel's Theorem; familiarise yourself with the central tenets of Logical Positivism... if you do all that, then - and only then - start a thread to tell the world of your findings. But no, you won't do that, because like every bore you're more interested in having your voice heard than thinking of anything to say. In the words of Chris Morris: 'Our next guest talks all the time and knows nothing. The result is he's a trenchant buffoon...'

Pepsoid, Many adult education establishments offer evening courses in AS level philosophy. I suggest you give it a go, you might enjoy it, although I think you'll find it a bit of a stretch at first.

Yeah! And, while we're at it, I'd like to point out that scientists don't discover truth. They test a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a prediction. If x is present, then y will happen for example. They then test this to see if it is 'true', or rather that the prediction is correct and that the result is not caused by other factors. Any scientific 'truth' is only contingent on the level of enquiry. A hypothesis can always be modified or 'disproved'. It's worth reading up on the scientific method, you know. It does work quite well. The media often reports science very badly. People often misunderstand science very badly too. Cheers, Mark

I've already covered that, Mark :) Rokkitnite. Your words are like a fine selection of Thornton's chocolates. Carefully chosen and presented, but start to become a little sickly after a short while. So you'd like to place an embargo on discussing anything in a 'general discussion' forum because the initiator hasn't first tracked down and studied every last previous discussion of the same topic during the past couple of thousand years? How ridiculous! I don't see you wading in and being rude to other members for raising similar contemplations. So your comment (as clever as it looks) is reduced to an ugly display of your prejudice and nothing more. It doesn't take an A level in philosophy or science to have a moment of curiosity. So stop being do daft. daft daft daft There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

In the words of Chris Morris: 'Our next guest talks all the time and knows nothing. The result is he's a trenchant buffoon...'

Our next guest knows nothing so he copies a quote from his forum bum-chum. "If it's not for you, just don't bloody watch it." Chris Morris There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

'So you'd like to place an embargo on discussing anything in a 'general discussion' forum because the initiator hasn't first tracked down and studied every last previous discussion of the same topic during the past couple of thousand years?' No, I'd specifically limit this stipulation to Pepsoid, on the basis that it's an impossible task and would therefore prevent him from starting threads like: BISCUIT: RISK IT? So, what should I have with my morning cuppa, a bourbon or a jammy dodger? :-0 ^_^ LOL ROFL {{{_"P"_}}} (Read my blog: www.stuckinaliftwithpeps.com - latest: Taking A Subject And Systematically Divesting It Of All Interesting Aspects)

I'd go for the bourbon, every time. Oh, wait, you meant the BISCUIT? Nah, choccie chip, in that case.

First they came for Paul Greco, and I did not speak out because I was not a Paul Greco. Then they came for Stephen, and I did not speak out because I was not a Stephen. Next they came for Jasper, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jasper. Then they came for me. And I said, 'actually I think you'll find it's Pepsoid you're after.' And they said, 'Ah yes, cheers mate - sorry about the mix up!'

So where do Penguins keep their money? In a snow bank. Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

It's hard to stop scratching your arse when you have a haemorrhoid

yan, you are noble to come to the defense of pepsoid. Though his posts may not be the stuff to titillate the gourmet palettes of some members of this forum, at least he does not belittle people. (which is so easy to do and impossible to be taken to task for)

Considering the amount of pontification and self-congratulatory long-windedness that occurs on this forum by its vaunted members (yes, yes, myself included), I don't see why Peps should be singled out as particularly egregious. If you don't like the thread, don't respond! It's hardly like the subject matter is lurking at the levels of, say, ritawrites, who elevated posting into new realms of wonder. Chirrrp!

There's no problem with the topic. You'll find the same question asked over and over in other forums on the web and in most cases they're addressed maturely with people offering a little bit of what they know or what they believe, based on their own perceptions, rather than systematically puked-up from text book examples (which is boring, imo). The Chris Morris quote: 'Our next guest talks all the time and knows nothing. The result is he's a trenchant buffoon...' does not refer to philosophical ramblings because they ask questions of which mostly there are no answers. In which case it would be pretty hard to 'know' anything! There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

The thing about deep philosphical conversations on the meaning of truth is that they're very interesting when you're drunk, stoned, or sixteen, otherwise, not so much.

No, no disagreement, BBF; I think Maddan is right about certain 'philosophical' subjects; arguing about 'what is truth' is along the same lines as 'what is 'is'?' and the subject gets really, really boring. But if we take a look down the roster of pithy forum threads, there are several guilty parties. I'm just making sure the love is shared around a bit.

Haemorrhoid, what YOU need to do is spread some Polonium 210 on your morning toast. And THAT'S the truth!

I think few scientists, logicians, epistemologists, philosophers or any of their ilk are really interested in finding the truth. What interests most of them more , is finding a new slant on existing knowledge that they can publish and make a name for themselves, or at least keep up their quota of papers and justify their existence to their department heads. Those who are most interested in the truth are probably the first to admit that beyond a certain point, we can never know it. At least not by through the agency of 'human reason'. This rusty tool was never meant for discovering truth. It evolved to help us find food, communicate with the other over-evolved apes in order to co-ordinate defense, and things like that. When you try to point it at the universe without any particular aim it is like pointing a flashlight at the night sky. It doesn't illuminate anything. But that doesn't mean that you can't know any truth. There is a large unused part of the brain that is constantly in direct contact with reality, but that we rarely pay attention to because it is drowned out by our conscious minds. If you want to access this part of your brain, what you need to do is first: spread out your meditation mat and sit down. And then find a comfortable position that you can maintain for a while (without falling asleep) and relax. when ideas and thoughts pop into your mind as they will inevitably will, you don't fight with them. You don't even need to try and stop them from coming. You only say to yourself the word: 'thinking' and the they will invariably fade away like smoke rings in a soft breeze. Eventually, when you have gotten used to this kind of activity you will become aware of all sorts of activity around you. You will feel like you are in the center of a dance where everything is performing in a beautiful rhapsody of movement and sound. This is the truth. The more in tune you can come with it the less you will be aware of the semantic hair splitting and categorizing that the professionals earn their livelihood from and the more you realise that you have really found something. (Bartender, another round!) There is more of beauty in a moment's silence than in all the works of tongue or pen...

Which isp were you with, missi? I'll have to write and thank them for doing something right by making a mistake. Only wish it had panned out longer. There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett