New Story and Poem of the week and Inspiration Point

that poem of ralph's is a take on a poem of mine - also called blow (which is in my chapbook)and rips some of the lines directly ... it's not that i mind particularly but i wish the blighter would acknowledge it!

I'm new to this site and have only posted a couple poems, so I don't really know what's going on. Who picks the New Story and Poem of the Week?

Well done Tony! A very interesting word and phrase to play with. I've had a go at it and I hope others will too. I've called it "A LIKELY STORY!" Be interested to hear your comments.

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone Yes indeed. I have just discovered that there are some things taken from Fish’s excellent poem of the same name. The poem was originally called 'And The Band Played Tupelo Honey'. It was written when I was unwell and in recovery from a mental illness. It was a story overheard in a ward that somehow engaged me. What I remember now is being very much in love with Alison’s poem, and attempting to change and phrase it to my own current situation at the time. I had completely forgotten about Alison’s poem until she contacted me, a little disgruntled (and quite rightly) last night. The oddest thing about it all is that I re-edited the original version last week, I thought about changing the title to 'Blow' and did so, without even knowing or remembering Alison's poem. Perhaps my subconscious was at play. Whilst I was studying at Birkbeck with the late Michael Donaghy as poetry teacher. He told me that writers have to be magpies and steal what they can from everywhere and make it your own. This is what I did I suppose, but I completely forgot the inspiration point as to where it came from. So. Belatedly. This poem is inspired by Alison Dunne's wonderful poem of the same name. I thank her immensely for giving me a leg up with it. Thanks, Ralph

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone As you can see. I did a couple of hours ago.

I think Fish's poem called 'Blow' is better. I suggest buying her book.

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone Fish's poem is exceptional. There is no argument about that at all. I do not have an issue at all about the cherry. I did not present it for that. Revoke it at your eill. As stated earliar |completley forgot abou Alison's poem. Thse subject matter of both is quite diffrent though. Best, Ralph

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone No worries. Swing out sister.

I think it's right that Ralph acknowledges his inspiration for the start of the poem, but I think "plagiarism" and "lines ripped directly" is going too far. Poetic ideas (especially good ones) sink into your subconscious, and it's okay if a couple surface as long as 1) it's only a couple of ideas at most and 2) it's not copied verbatim. Ralph's poem passes on both criteria. He used the "scattered things" and "centrepiece" ideas in a different context ; and there's a vague birthday connection -- and that's it as far as I can make out. The rest is a completely different poem

Well, I think it goes a bit further than inspiration. Four of the first five lines end on the same words in both poems. As has been said, using one poem to kick-start another in this way is fairly standard poetry workshop practice - and isn't a bad thing - but it is something that people should make clear when publishing the results. For me, not acknowledging the source does count as accidental plagiarism when the poem being worked from is really, really famous. It's a little bit different if people are chucking in lines like 'April is the cruellest month' but even then it's better to say where they've come from.

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone Glad that's all sorted then. Phew. I should have acknowledged Fish's poem sooner, but I absolutley forgot where it came from. Alison Dunne has alway been an influential writer for me (well the last few years anyway) and in a way I'm pleased that I have shown that respect now. Even in the most unlikley and absent minded way. Good comments though. Really thoughtful. Thanks

"Well, I think it goes a bit further than inspiration. Four of the first five lines end on the same words in both poems." So that's the rule, then. If four out of five of your lines end on the same words as somebody else's poem, you've gone "a bit further than inspiration". Okay, then. But whilst it sounds rather like you're making the rules up as you go along -- as, I'm sure the four-out-of-five thing has has happened before in poems before without anyone noticing -- I prefer your analysis of "a bit further than inspiration" to the aforementioned "plagiarism" and "ripping lines directly", both of which are very lofty assertions. Songs with similar melodies and films with similar scenes/storylines don't class as plagiarism. Some are conscious efforts to pay homage, some are subconscious idea regurgitations. It matters not which the poem is: it's good, inspired by another, and it's not a straight rip off.

Yes it is online. http://www.sundress.net/wickedalice/blow.html Found it on this new-fangled site called "Google". You type in "Alison Dunne Blow" just like bbf did, and you find it second page in, 6th link down. (Actually, I tell a lie. I put in "Alison Dunne blow poem" and got it on the first page. Search engines. Wild.)

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone Right. I read Alisons poem years ago and played around with it. It was a good exercise. I totally forgot about her work but recently edited what I had written and presented iy again. alison contacted me and reminded me that I may have been severley influenceed by her piece. I denied it at first because I truly could not remember. When Alison then sent me her origanal it all became clear. Is this going to end now? ralph

I enjoyed both poems very much. jude

Plagiarism, n. A literary coincidence compounded of a discreditable priority and an honourable subsequence. Plagiarize, v. To take the thought or style of another writer whom one has never, never read. The Devil's Dictionary I love all this junk. THE SOLUBLE FISH

thank you for acknowledgement ralph ...

http://www.myspace.com/ralphieloveplusone Pleasure Fish.