kitchen sink

I love all the films Taste of honey Lonliness of a long distance runner Billy liar Saturday night Sunday morning A kind of loving room at the top etc... i remember one by Keith Waterhouse? 'There is a happy land,' was it?

A kind of loving is great... its actually a trilogy. one thing that does annoy me about barstow, is that he slips in references to characters from his other books. If you havent read the book in question yet, it can act as a spoiler.. but on the other hand, it is a charming idea. Dont know that waterhouse one I think? L Shaped room and the other reid banks' in the same series are wonderful too. Do you remember a kind of loving being serialised on tv with joanne whalley?

Yes i do remember it vaguely, i think the actor in the male lead was tipped for big things.....forgot his name as well .....Doh....was it Clive Woodward? I don't think he made much of an impact.

'A Kind of Loving' is a bit dated and padded, but it contains searing scenes of fumbling young love - and I treasure the spewing on Ingrid's mum's carpets. I also enjoyed a book of Barstow's short stories, which included a good one about a stripper. Barstow wrote a smart letter to the Guardian the other week in which he said something like (my notes): "The trouble with so many of Maugham's tales (and Maupassant's 'The Necklace') is that once you know the pay-off, there's little incentive to return to them. The great short stories, however, for example Joyce's 'The Dead'. Maupassant's 'Maison Tellier' and Chekhov's 'The Lady with the Lapdog' can be read again and again because despite our knowing 'what happens' they continue to grow in the mind." also "What's the point in fleshing out at length aome cynical take on human nature which can be related verbally in a couple of hundred words?"

Yep - had this conv with andrew at the weekend... the reason that I keep going back to barstow (and also winterson) is that it doesn't matter one bit that you know the end... the imagery in the writing itself is so strong and compelling, you can open it anywhere and hit paydirt.

I get the impression that Barstow's stayed true to himself, which I admire. People like Kingsley Amis, Johm Osborne, and Keith Waterhouse became alcoholic bores in later life, in my opinion. And Storey, Sillitoe, and Wesker lost the knack. What happened to the women I don't know - Anne Jellicoe, Shelagh Delaney? It was definitely a fantastic era - and I loved the films, like "Whistle Down the Wind" and "The Servant".

I need to read the English writers properly actually. I've avoided them, which is pretty daft. Anyone tried Malcom Lowry? Under the Volcano has beat me time after time. [%sig%]

As I've written a bit of 50s kitchen sink, I really ought to check out these films/books more. The names are all familiar, and I have memories of such films in the late 70s/early 80s? What are the dates around these dramas? I'm sure I've seen 'A Taste of Honey' and 'Room at the Top'. Where does Nell Dunn's 'Up the Junction' fit in? Whistle Down the Wind - seen that of course...Hayley Mills, love her.

Not reading the English writers (writers in English) may have been a wise move, Marc. Most of them, even Barstow and co in their own way, use a sort of reference code that, in my opinion, is almost debilitating to freshness of voice. Beckett had to start writing in French to get away from that constriction. Incidentally, there's - and I can't believe this - a documentary on 4 tonight about Niall Griffiths, who's got the right idea, in my opinion.

I love Stan, me like. I love kitchen sink in general. I bought a Shelagh Delany book of short stories the other week but never got round to reading. I've got some lovely old editions of Nell Dunn's books with great 'racey' covers. Is there a modern equivilent to kitchen sink?

Morrissey plagiarises Shelagh Delany's dialogue to death, since he wanted to write about exactly the same kind of stuff. In fact, I think it's been suggested that 'Sheila, Take a Bow' is about her. What is kitchen sink though? How is it different to, say, Eastenders?

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I watched the griffiths thing last night - thanks for pointing it out. His dad was a corker... One thing that annoys me about these art shows is the constant chippity chopping camera work. I wanted to listen to what niall was saying and see the images that inspired him, not look at 2 second flashes of the corner of his mouth. Annoying. Not sure about modern kitchen sink... For me now it's really over in it's original form simply because of the time the stuff was produced is gone forever. Maybe stuff that could fit the mould at a stretch is Hird and Barker? As for Morrissey? No comment.

Nell Dunn's 'Poor Cow' is brilliant, likewise Shena Mackay's early novels like 'Music Upstairs' and 'Dust Falls On Eugene Schlumburger' (what a title!) Her later books like 'The Orchard On Fire' are also great. Marc, I started 'Under The Volcano' a couple of years ago and loved it, about midway I got confused and rather depressed - but that's the point I suppose. Maybe I was just identifying with the character. It doesn't help that my copy is falling to bits, but I intend to finish it. 'Taste of Honey' is just about perfect - did Shelagh Delaney write anything else? [%sig%]

I really should read these threads properly. I see Delaney has written a book of stories as well ...

Loved the film version of Saturday Night Sunday Morning (and was pleased to find out my favourite English actor, Ray Winstone, was heavily inspired by it) ..also the film of A Taste of Honey. But as far as books go it all seems to have passed me by. Will check out soon.. especially Stan Barstow and 'Poor Cow' (as I've heard a lot of good things about the film.) Oh, Look Back in Anger.. brilliant.. have always wanted to see/read more John Osborne. I saw this documentary about him a while back (a xmas?) and he came across as a right tosser. Is Edward Bond's 'Saved' kitchen sink?.. loved that. I saw a production of it with Tim Booth (lead singer from 'James') playing the main character (Len?) ..he did a damn good job, actually. I also vaguely remember being on a plane listening to a tape on my walkman (something copied) ..after the music finished there was a recording of a Barstow radio play (or a play of a book or something) which seemed quite good.. a very odd surprise since I'd owned the tape for ages and couldn't figure out how on earth it had got there.. I must have fast-forwarded past it every time (!) A big fan of Under the Volcano.. the ending is amazing, flabbergasting, strange, brilliant. The prose isn't everybody's cup of tea though. If you like it (or prefer something shorter) I'd definitely recommend 'Ultramarine' (think that's the title) Lowry's first book.. it's quite a bit shorter and maybe an easier way in to his stuff. Maybe it's my imagination but there ALWAYS seems to be a copy of a Malcolm Lowry book in every second hand bookshop. Seems to be some kind of industry standard or something. Him and Andre Gide.. if anyone can explain this phenomenon I'd be fascinated. Yeah, I read Laura Hird's 'Born Free' a bit ago.. and that definitely was a bit kitchen sinky to me. Although 'kitchen sink' IS a bit tricky to actually define.. anyone know any borderline cases? I think it's very easy to classify a lot of stuff as kitchen sink.. i.e anything leaning heavily on realism, anything resolutely portraying working class life.. anything seemingly anti-intellectual even. It's a tricky one. [%sig%]