Approaching agents

Hi Russell The best place to start is The Writers' and Artists' Yearbook - preferably a current copy - where the listed agents will tell you what their interests are, what they want you to submit, whether they want an enquiry first, etc. Many of them also have websites now, too, so you could check there. I tend to start with a quick e-mail or phone call first, just to confirm requirements (don't waste time and money writing letters first - they seem to get ignored). Quite a few of the big agencies will tell you that their lists are full. On the other hand, agencies like PFD, Curtis Brown, Gillon Aitken and Darley Anderson seem happy enough to see 3 chapters of a novel, a synopsis for the rest of it and a covering letter introducing yourself and mentioning any successes you may have had (this is if you're talking about novels, of course - for other submissions, check with them first). Another tip is to give them some indication in the letter that this isn't just a one-off... that you have other ideas up your sleeve. Horrible though it sounds, they want to see 'product potential': you aren't so much a new author as a new brand! I try to keep the letter to a page. Tell them about what you write, how long you've been doing it, what you've published and won - even if it's something in a local paper. It goes without saying really, I know - but make sure the letter is grammatical, everything is correctly spelled, and you haven't used too many adjectives and adverbs! Your writing should do the rest - so make sure it's the best you've got. Another thing many agents stipulate: don't bind your MS in any way. Send loose sheets, A4, double-spaced. Also, DON'T FORGET the return SAE!

Search the web and/or Witers' Year Book for an agent that deals with authors in a similar vein to yourself. Then look at the agents' websites, where they will probably have posted their submissions policy. If they ain't, then e-mail them for the info. If that don't work, phone 'em up and ask 'em. All have different policys for unsolicited submissions (if they accept such a thing), but usually, sending a sample, such as the first three chapters, is required, and the best way forward. It doesn't mattter what you sound like on an introductory letter, it's the work that counts at the end of the day. I've blagged a manuscript onto one agent's desk at the mo', and have received e-mails regarding submission policies, so it's worked for me so far. (Got fuck-all published though). PS You might get a better response by putting this in the "getting published" forum.

I posted the above as Alan was posting his; I didn't mean to repeat his solid advice! Good luck.

I can't believe you're not published, Josie. There's no justice!

Yeah; I think the agent was pissed when she asked for the manuscript. I think they've spent the last few months sitting in the office scratching their heads wondering where the fuck it came from and how to get rid of it without a fuss.

Yep. What makes me feel better is thinking of a synopsis of a book I like, and realising that it ain't only my stuff that comes out badly. A synopsis without a sample is not a good idea.

Yeah. I suppose it at least shows that you've worked this thing through to an end and aren't just sending the first three chapters 'cos that's all you've written so far. Again, keep the synopsis to a page. Don't go into huge details - just enough so that everything important is covered. The writing itself is still what's most important. You could have the greatest plot in the world - but if the writing's crap... You've probably heard the story about the writer who kept getting rejections. He became paranoid that the agents weren't actually reading his stuff. So, on his latest submission, he stuck pages 8 and 9 together. Sure enough, it came back with those pages still stuck together. He rang them up, told them what he'd done and that he'd caught them out. "But," came the reply, "we only had to read to page 3 before we knew we didn't need to go any further."

There are a couple of "how to..." books out there, which although are generally crap, do givesome advice on what to put in and what not to. There's a website somewhere with examples put up by an ex-agent, highlighting what she liked and what stank. can't remember it right now, but have a fish about. If I find it I'll post it.

The book you need, Russ, is Carole Blake's "From Pitch to Publication". It takes you through the post-writing stage of your novel - actually getting the thing sold.

I also have it, but so far I have no need for it - I haven't managed to finish the writing yet!

It's reckoned that you need to write 3 novels before you write a decent one. That was certainly my experience with scripts. You need to get the crap out of your system first. Luck plays a part. Being in the right place, etc. But unconnected first-timers still do it. Michael Ridpath, J K Rowling, etc. I was at uni with David Mitchell. He was working at a local Waterstone's. He sent his first novel off on spec... and the rest, as they say... The other thing many frustrated good writers are doing is by-passing the system and going down the self-publishing route (not vanity publishing). It can be costly, so you need a lot of faith and neck, and the will to sell yourself. But it's been done. The chap who wrote 'Shadowmancer' started with a few self-published copies circulated in his local village. And then there's this guy, whom someone else mentioned a little while ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/07/npub07.x...

Russ, have you ever thought of sending your manuscript to a decent editorial service? They would have to read through to the end and give you objective advice. I say this because, it's quite common for the opening of a first draft novel to be the worst bit and if an agent only reads the first couple of pages... I was advised to restart mine half-way through chapter one where the pace picked up. In retrospect, I can see now that the first half was horribly overwritten and any agent would've been asleep by the second paragraph. ~ www.fabulousmother.com

I echo Lou's experience with my children's book, which I'm due to redraft soon. I approached an editorial agency with it, but couldn't afford their services at the time (I think it was £450 for 10,000 words) - but the advice could more than recoup that if it makes the difference. I was fortunate in finding another editor to help me out in the meantime - and she showed me the error of my ways! Talk about 'kill your darlings'. The book needs to be about half its current length. It's going to be very tough... but I can see now that what I thought was fantastic is, in fact, turgid and sleep-inducing.

'It's reckoned that you need to write 3 novels before you write a decent one.' I'd immediately question any piece of advice that came from an undefined pronoun - 'it's reckoned' is about on par with the weasily 'they say' in my book. Who says? Mr Vague-Received-Wisdom Esq, that's who. I still believe, despite having had no luck getting published myself, that the thing to focus on - the thing you've got most control over - is the quality of your writing. Yes, you may be more talented than many published authors already out there (I know I fucking am) but what's your aim - to get published, or to write a mind-blowingly brilliant novel? If it's the former, then by all means good luck, but as we all know, it's not *intrinsically* prestigious given the pulpy crap printed and read every day. If your goal is the latter, then I believe all you need to do (tough though it is) is work on your ability to tell great stories. I think the people who have turned down my work may have done so for many reasons, but the bottom line for me is, is my writing so jaw-droppingly awesome that no editor in their right mind could pass on it? The answer is quite obviously no. For me, then, my responsibility is to work on making my writing better and better. Whether it ends up being to the industry's tastes is not something I can control, so I shan't try to.

Point taken, Rokkitnite. Vague-received-wisdom indeed. Guilty as charged. I've just read it and heard it so many times - and experienced it myself, in a way. That doesn't make it any less a generalisation, though, you're right.

I'd imagine there is some luck involved but at the end of the day tour writing has to grab the reader early. From what I know agents get shitloads of manuscripts a day so I'd imagine if it don't grab them fast you won't grab them. If the story takes a while to get into I'd advise selecting a few good chapters to send opposed to the first three. I was once told it's a good idea to send your manuscript to several agents and publishers at once to save on time, haven't tried it myself though so don't know others experience on this. Regarding editing, abctales Clifford Thurlow does this amongst other things for a living. Check on his user page and his site address is there. Good luck anyway. Craig

I follow craig's school of thought here, the first chapter, the first para , has to kick arse. Forget the long-winded descriptive passages. I often find that taking the first para off any work after its finished makes it a bit snappy.See 2Lou's comment above! If you don't want to lose it, stick it in further down. If you're in the game of sending stuff to publishers/agents, you have to play their game.

Don't bother with an introduction letter, or something formal and crap like that. It won't impress them. In fact, it's like receiving junk mail or getting a visit from a double glazing salesman. What I'd do, me ole chum, is just send the manuscript, but send a spoken word cd of an extract or extracts of the manuscript (can be listened to anywhere). make sure it's recorded in a dead room, on a piece of sequencing software, compressed and a little room ambience added, there you go. Or just send the cd and no manuscript...bang your email addy on it and follow it up a few weeks later. Don't call them, don't send funny letters (like introductions). There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

'Point taken, Rokkitnite. Vague-received-wisdom indeed. Guilty as charged.' Can we just alter it to 'writing normally improves with practice', perhaps? Would-be novelists are a frazzled, atavistic shower as it is - when you start giving them numbers they go a bit schizophrenic and cling to them as if they're the secret code for unlocking the universe. 'If the story takes a while to get into I'd advise selecting a few good chapters to send opposed to the first three.' You are smoking crack, sport. I can hear the rhythmic thud, thud, thud as all across London weary agents bang their heads against their teak escritoires: 'I don't know what blathering idiot out there is advising people to send "Chapter 1, Chapter 17 and Chapter 32 because they show my best writing", but that is wrong!' That's an actual quote from an actual, living breathing editor right there. Don't ignore an agent's guidelines. These things aren't erected as ramparts against the great unwashed, they're put in place in an attempt to make it possible to read the vast deluge of manuscripts they receive every week. If you want to stand out, READ AND FOLLOW THEIR GUIDELINES TO THE LETTER. So few people do! If, on top of that, you can spell, punctuate and format your work properly, you're already ahead of sixty or seventy percent of the unpublishable poo-poo they have to wade through. If, after all of that, you've actual written a blinding first chapter, with a zippy, slick narrative and characters the reader cares about, then I don't doubt for a moment you'll be asked for the full MS. At the moment, I read and feedback on other people's work for a living. A lot of the prose I get sent is, frankly, not very good. That doesn't mean I'm so jaded and beaten down that I don't feel a great surge of excitement when I read something good. It doesn't even have to be amazing - something just 'good' is pretty rare. But I'm not in the position of having to convince anyone to invest money in these stories. That's an effing big ask. If you can look at your novel and honestly say that, if you were coming to it as an agent, you'd feel confident, nay excited at the prospect of taking it to a third-party and asking them for money in return, then it might be ready to send out. If not, then no amount of painstakingly crafted cover letters or chapter-juggling is going to make a professional sit up and say 'hey, you know what? I'm going to try to convince a team of people to devote months of their lives to getting this book on the shelves.' Like I say, a big ask.

'What I'd do, me ole chum, is just send the manuscript, but send a spoken word cd of an extract or extracts of the manuscript (can be listened to anywhere).' Well Christ Yan2, if you want to stand out, why stop there? Just strip naked, smear yourself in goat's blood (available from any good butcher) then ride into their offices on the back of a pregnant sow, the first three chapters tattooed onto the flesh of her unborn piglets. Then you simply hold the fuckers at gunpoint and kick the pig to induce labour, screaming: 'WATCH THIS! WATCH IT YOU PHILISTINE BASTARDS! THE BIRTH OF A MASTERPIECE! HERE'S TO A4 DOUBLE-SPACED ONE SIDE OF THE PAPER PLEASE ENSURE YOU INCLUDE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ON EVERY PAGE AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!' Then you plunge the gun into your gob and pull the trigger. Blammo. Brains mapping Miss February like a clot of strawberry Angel Delight and an instant contract. Don't bother with the guidelines man. They've seen it before. It's what all their current authors did, after all.

That's a humdinger first paragraph, rokkitnite. Got my attention, anyway. And a point well made. I can only agree. Though I think Yan might've been having a leg-pull. "I was once told it's a good idea to send your manuscript to several agents and publishers at once to save on time" And I've always been told the exact opposite, Craig. TWAAY advises against it. Supposing... just supposing... more than one agent accepted it? What do you think, rokkit?

there's an idea. Like rokkit said: kill yourself as soon you've sent the manuscript, and let them know that the last chapter is with the body, which must be found. Give them a clue. There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

'Supposing... just supposing... more than one agent accepted it? What do you think, rokkit?' Ooh! Now I feel like I'm on Gardener's Question Time! Well, I think this: From my experience, most of the time agents operate a tacit Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, like the US military does with benders. If you ask directly, some will say they don't mind, others will say, 'Well, actually I'd rather you didn't.' As far as I'm aware, none will tell you to go sod a log if he or she loves your work then discovers it's been seen by other agents. What I resolutely *would* advise is don't send to agents and publishers at the same time. If an agent accepts only to discover that half the editors they might have approached have already turned it down, you're up Shit Creek, one of North America's least scenic waterways.

There are a few agents and editors blogs out there, which are probably as good a place as any for advice, and pretty much echo exactly what Tim said. http://misssnark.blogspot.com/ http://evileditor.blogspot.com/

Well, I have an agent. Rokkit's advice is good. The only thing to worry about is if your writing is good enough and to write and write and hopefully get better. I never worry too much about the publishing side, or not disporportionately. Getting an agent after that is luck. You need to find someone who is on the same wavelength as you and likes the kind of things you write. That's the luck part. Because you don't know. I approached my agent by email; a short synopsis of my book and a bit about me, and the first chapter. She then asked me to email the whole book. About a week later I met her and I was taken on. I asked her, 'why me?'. She said because I had been published before, had won some competitions, and I could string sentences together. She also said she loves my book and it's easy to like someone who says that. But seriously I do like her a lot. Ten minutes after meeting her she asked what I was looking for in an agent. I said, 'someone nice'. *** About Carole Blake - I met her at a literature development thing last year. I knew she wouldn't be the right agent for me. She is mad. She talked for about 3 hours about deals, about how she had sold rights to this country and so on. She put me off publishing for a good few months.....

Hi Drew, Whenever I've approached Blake Friedman about submissions, they've always said they aren't looking at any because their books are full. I did submit on spec once, and got a personal letter from Julian Friedman saying that he really liked my work and could see it had potential - but 'my list is closed'. Would you still say 'give them a go, anyway?' Closest I got to securing representation was with PFD. Huge though the are, they always seem welcoming.

My agent told me she could think of about 8 other agents who would be right for me. When she asked who I'd approached before, I mentioned only two (cause I don't send a lot off) and she said 'I can't think of people you would be more unsuited to'. But I don't know how you would ever know who you are suited to. Her advice was - look in the books of authors you like and think are similar to. Usually they will mention their agents. Approach those agents.

I'm not convinced by the quality argument. It's a nice idea but in practice I'm not sure how much reliance you can place on it. After all if quality was the key to publishing success, then how do you explain Dan Brown? I've never had a book published so you may want to take my comments with a pinch of salt, but it seems to me that one thing a lot of would-be authors miss is that publishing is just a business. Your pitch therefore needs to explain concisely and clearly to the publisher or agent why your book might make him or her a ton of money. The brilliance of your prose is not a good enough reason. You need to be able to demonstrate your book's commercial potential, showing which audiences it's aimed at and why those audiences would feel the urge to buy it. Which leads me to the conclusion that one way of improving your chances is to reverse engineer your book. I would say first write an attention grabbing tagline for the front cover of the book and an attention-grabbing back cover blurb, both of which should excite people's interest and make them want to immediately buy the book. Then write the book to fit. The book still needs to be fresh and readable and tell a great story and engage the reader in every possible way, but I don't think it has to have great literary merit - which is what the word 'quality' suggests to me.

That sounds like good advice from drew and Rocitnite, though I still believe you can get somewhere with breaking the guidlines if your writings good enough. A couple of years ago I went for an internment on a National paper that only gives work experience on merit. I ignored the guidlines, if it had been a writing comp you could compare it with them wanting prose and me posting poetry, because my writing caught their attention I got down to the last 20. I didn't end up with the internship due to me only being interested in certain areas of the industry. I did however get nine weeks work experience out of it. So sometimes other fafctors than the guidelines can play their part. Though Rockit's in the business and maybe it's different with agents. A lot of it is luck and you can probably only get to some agents through mutual acquaintences. Al, the reason I said about sending it off to multiple agents etc was because the person who said about it had known it to work for someone. They actually ended up with two agents bidding over her. Craig

'Your pitch therefore needs to explain concisely and clearly to the publisher or agent why your book might make him or her a ton of money. The brilliance of your prose is not a good enough reason. You need to be able to demonstrate your book's commercial potential, showing which audiences it's aimed at and why those audiences would feel the urge to buy it.' There is so much wrong with this that I can only respond: balderdash. Yes, an agent is looking for work that is saleable but deciding whether it is or isn't IS THEIR JOB, not yours! Lots of readers really enjoy Dan Brown's talent for telling a story - in that sense, his work is 'quality' in that the prose is fast-paced and accessible. If you send an agent flap-copy you'll look like an arrogant twat. Just imagine going on a date and explaining clearly and concisely why you're such a great catch, because 'the brilliance of your personality isn't enough'. Your work will *never* be to everyone's taste, but do you really want an agent working for you who has no interest in your writing, doesn't like the same books as you, and frankly only said yes because your cover letter made dollar signs appear in their eyes? JUST FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES and PRACTISE. It's as simple and as tough as that.

Yeah, I agree with you Rokkit. How goes it with your book by the way? And are you working on anything now? Drew. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/drew.gummerson2

Umm... my agent has sent it out the first book but so far everyone who has looked has politely declined. Looking a bit grim, to be honest. I'm two-thirds of the way through a second (which I'm posting first drafts of on abc as I write it) but it's even less commercially viable and pretty much for my own amusement... which is actually a pretty damn pleasant way to write a novel, to be honest!

get drunk at a party, behave like a silly lush, wake up next day with agent's number. ta da.

Oh, but before that write a really good book that is original and pageturning and couldn't have been written by anyone but you.

Rokkit, I am disappointed to hear you've had no luck yet with your book. From what you've said about it in the past, I am so looking forward to reading it! Commercially non-viable books often get published after the author writes another succesful novel. Yan Martell's first novel, 'The Facts Behind the Helsinki Roccamatios and Other Stories' sold badly and only enjoyed a revival on the back of 'The Life of Pi.' And Jeff Noon would never have found a publisher for 'Cobralingus' without the Vurt series. So hang on to your current book, you never know. I am enjoying the samples on ABC. Fergal, an excellent plan. However, in your drunken state how do you know the agent is genuine and not just after a bit of jiggy jiggy? jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

Rokkit I kind of knew you'd come back with some guff like that. I appreciate you don't like my comments because they throw a bucket of cold realism over your slightly idealistic and naive view of the publishing world. I admire quality writing as much as the next ABCtaler, but in my experience writers who focus only on the quality of their writing and are dismissive of the commercial aspects of the business - as you seem to be - are (a) a bit up their own backsides and (b) limiting their chances of success. First and foremost publishing is a business. If you don't factor that into your mindset as an author, you are making your quest to be published that much harder. Not impossible, but certainly harder.

Good one fergal - only how do you get the invite to parties with agents anyhow?? ** Rokkit - the best way to write any novel is to enjoy doing it. Drew

gatecrash I say

'...the best way to write any novel is to enjoy doing it.' good onya, drew. There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

Rokkit's not naive. He's just looking on the bright side. 'Publishing is a business' is something publishers and agents tell themselves to excuse desperate ploys and tell other people in order to get off the hook when accused of putting out drivel. The truth is that no business-minded person would go into publishing - there's just not enough money in it. The publishers who prosper most are certainly going to be pretty good at the business side of things, but the lot of them are still, most likely, in it because they have a passion for books and literature. That means they'll pay ridiculous amounts of money to put out a book they think has cultural wallop. I've always broadly agreed with Tim on this - where we differ is that I don't think this attitude gives them a very clean bill of health when it comes to picking out good writing. It would be like putting me in some kind of high-powered position in the comics industry - "Has it got Gambit or Transformers in it? Great! Spend millions on promotion! I *love* Gambit and Transformers." In other words, being passionate about books, they probably have far too many little pet hates and whatever the opposite is - pet loves? It's too easy to push their buttons. They'll go doolally for something that reminds them of something else they love. Passion clouds your judgment. Most publishers' 'business sense' seems to extend about as far as throwing huge amounts of money in the same place where every other publisher is throwing huge amounts of money, be it in a bidding war or on carbon copies of the latest big hit. I sometimes think a lot about the commercial aspect of things, but the most positive light I can look at it in is as a sort of game - a challenge. How can you *trick* people into reading something seriously different? We all have the spirit of the pleb in us - we all want to stick to the things we know best. How do you suck someone in with the promise of something familiar, and then turn it around without them turning tail? Yay for commerically unviable material anyway. "I think the people who have turned down my work may have done so for many reasons, but the bottom line for me is, is my writing so jaw-droppingly awesome that no editor in their right mind could pass on it?" This is good positive thinking for you, Tim, but it's too silly for me to adopt. Humans being humans, the most jaw-droppingly awesome writing in the world will clearly baffle, offend and disappoint most people who encounter it, leaving it to a small cadre of possible-insightful, possible-deluded fans or academics to ram it repeatedly up the arse of accepted culture until it's securely lodged. That was a terrible metaphor.

'This is good positive thinking for you, Tim, but it's too silly for me to adopt. Humans being humans, the most jaw-droppingly awesome writing in the world will clearly baffle, offend and disappoint most people who encounter it, leaving it to a small cadre of possible-insightful, possible-deluded fans or academics to ram it repeatedly up the arse of accepted culture until it's securely lodged.' Okay. Fair point Jon. I suppose what I'm saying is it's not fair for me to get cross at people for failing to recognise my genius unless I'm sure the work I've given them actually *is* genius. And since it's not, then there's no need for me to tilt at windmills. Sure, it would be *lovely* if somebody published me, but I won't feel we're living in a fallen, godforsaken world if that doesn't come to pass. 'I appreciate you don't like my comments because they throw a bucket of cold realism over your slightly idealistic and naive view of the publishing world.' Brooosh, you are just smoking crack now. Really. You are. Honking away on a big cauldron-sized pipe loaded with crack. Honk honk honk.

The truth is that no business-minded person would go into publishing - there's just not enough money in it. True, but gorgeous red-heads do throw themselves at you at parties, which must count for something.

"I suppose what I'm saying is it's not fair for me to get cross at people for failing to recognise my genius unless I'm sure the work I've given them actually *is* genius." Sure, sure, I'm with you on that - it's eye-rolling time when people mourn the demise of quality control in publishing. All the same, I don't think that's the reason most aspiring writers are cross - I think it's usually because they put a lot of time and effort into writing something they think the world needs, only to see money and plaudits being heaped on other writers that seem, to them, to have taken the soft option. Imagine, for example, that someone was hoisted aloft and declared a comic genius for writing a novel-length version of your A-Team versus Osama story. *You* thought of it first, but you didn't try to start a career around it because, amusing as it was, you saw that there were more important, better stories to devote your time to. I dunno - maybe you'd be indifferent - but I think it's easy to see why a lot of people get narked off. There *are* an awful lot of novels around that smack of some dullard coming up with an obvious and limited idea and then somehow convincing thousands of people that it's inspired.

'I dunno - maybe you'd be indifferent - but I think it's easy to see why a lot of people get narked off. There *are* an awful lot of novels around that smack of some dullard coming up with an obvious and limited idea and then somehow convincing thousands of people that it's inspired.' Perhaps, but then, as a writer, I don't think that's any of your business. Your job is just to try to make the best thing you can on your own terms - whether that be work that's beautiful, or hilarious, or thought-provoking, or all three. However reasonable or unreasonable it is to write expecting some reward, (financial or otherwise) I'm not sure it's wise - that is, I'm not sure it's healthy or productive. The only novels that give me a twinge of jealousy are the ones I absolutely love, where I find myself thinking: "Hang on - maybe this author's said what I've always wanted to say but with far more aplomb." But those kind of doubts have never stopped me writing, because I enjoy it.

I never trouble myself overly with all of the above. I write what I like and makes me happy and laugh. If that somehow one day fits in with what people want to buy then that's all well and good. I can do this forever, until I die anyway, so there's no rush. I agree that most people in the publishing world are there because they love books. Carole Blake seemed to love all the books she was talking about that made her a pot of cash but to me they sounded awful. And I always think that if I'm good enough then what I write will be published. Lots of great books get published. There are loads coming out this year that I can't wait to read. The publishing world wants to find great stuff. If writers think that it is against them then that is just plain silly.