Threat Of The Far Right

I agree

It’s difficult to know where to draw the line when it comes to ‘free speech’ and extremists of any persuasion. However, if you decide to discriminate against any one group by banning it you run the risk of giving it a perverse glamour which will make it attractive to the very people who are crazy enough to commit the sort of atrocities that has just happened in Norway and shocked the world. I would argue that blaming the Right wing for the actions of an unhinged extremist is just as misguided as the arguments that mosques should be closed down because some terrorists are Muslims. In fact, on a similar theme, I was quite disgusted by O’reilly on Fox ‘news’ today who seemed very bigoted and anti Muslim in his ‘conversation’ with a lawyer who is defending the right of Muslims to build a new mosque. In a piece titled “Will the Ground Zero Mosque Be Built?” - O'Reilly "debates" with a lawyer as to whether the 'Ground Zero mosque' should still be moved, despite the legal victory saying it can be built on the originally chosen site. Worse the video intro to his show is still claiming that the atrocities in Norway "seems to be the work, once again, of Muslim extremists." If you watch the clip below before you read the excerpt from Wiki - which explains the history of the controversy as to where the mosque should be built - then I think you will be quite surprised how much the facts have been twisted... unless you've watched Fox “news” before. http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html#/v/1071738490001/will-t... “Park51 (originally named Cordoba House) is a planned 13-story Muslim community center to be located two blocks from the World Trade Center site in Lower Manhattan. The majority of the center will be open to the general public and its proponents have said the center will promote interfaith dialogue. It will contain a Muslim prayer space that has controversially been referred to as the "Ground Zero mosque", though numerous commentators noted that it was neither a mosque nor at Ground Zero.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51

I still agree with you well-wisher. There is no place for people with such hate and who time and time again commit attrocious crimes. This man in Norway will only get 21 years years in prison, max. But he will have a very bad time in prison- noone is going to treat him well. What they have to do now is catch his accomplice.

I have no time for the BNP personally, but I'm not sure what "not tolerating" them means? Banning them would just give them ammunition to be righteously indignant about how they are treated unfairly. Giving them the chance to be seen as a real political party seems to just give them numerous chances to make themselves look stupid. Which they are pretty good at.

“Nazi's can make large groups of perfectly sane normal nice people act like murderous psychopaths.” If you look at the Khmer Rouge it might remind you that left-wing extremists can make nice people act like murderous psychopaths too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge As the Buddha said - take the Middle Way - avoid extremes. I know where you’re coming from Well-wisher but you’re falling into the extremists’ trap... they want to make you chose a ‘side’, to be for or against them, because then, either way, you have started down the path to becoming an extremist yourself… “Be careful when you fight monsters, lest you become one (yourself)." Friedrich Nietzsche. I ought to add that I agree that the influence of any 'gang' of extremists is likely to be bad but I don't think that banning them is the best way forward. Having said that, if it were up to me, I would require Fox 'News' to stop pretending to be a news channel and take a new name more representative of its real function - although Bigot’s Broadcasting Service might be closer to the mark, I think perhaps something like The Fox Tea Party would probably be more acceptable to Murdoch. I'm sure they would be in their element inviting everyone to join their party and get the low down on what the Socialist president was doing now in his bid to raise the tax on tea ;O)

Blighters/ Richard- I don't like you drawing parallels between the German community today and that of Nazi Germany- there are no parallels. Germans are very clever people in my books- they seem to manage very well despite their black history or maybe because of it. The authorities should crack down more harshly on racists and the far right. I don't see why it shouldn't be forbidden to be a right-wing extremist and organise as such. This guy in Norway should have been on a much shorter leash then none of this would have happened. He is insane like his fellow temple knights. Pia

"Excuse me, but I am fully aware that there are Left Wing extremists, however the BNP are the only extremists on my doorstep." Point taken Well wisher. If only life were so simple :O)

I don't know all the issues and detailed history of the BNP so I don't really know just how 'dangerous' or 'nasty' they might be, but it seems to me that a lot of people are tempted to vote for them at the moment, even if they don't actually do it in the end. I suspect their vote in last year's UK General Election was quite high. Disenchantment with the leading parties is high in this country, and in others. The economic messes which have occurred in recent years have been the creation of complacent leadership. Mrs Thatcher's laissez faire attitudes led to a big business free for all which has resulted finally in credit crunch, banking crisis and bail outs which have tested public finances severely. Labour improved and preserved employment prospects, but like all other governments, failed to see the corruption of the banking and mortgage sectors, and property boom. They all put their trust in university teachings which ignored the destabilising realities. Everybody was content to reap their own benefits instead of sorting out deep seated problems. Now many see rising unemployment, the loss of manufacturing to other parts of the world, mass immigration, much increased by inclusion in the EEC free labour market, sloppy immigration rules, complacent management of migration, and of course budget cuts. Naturally many feel under threat from large numbers of foreigners of one sort or another. Many find their neighbourhoods changing drammatically from one generation to the next, their kids becoming minorities in ethnicity or background in many areas. Surely these concerns have to find a place in politics, and the BNP or other parties are expressing some of those concerns. FRee speech does demand that parties who wish to criticise immigration or foriegn visas, or the economic free for all should be allowed to speak or represent, as long as they are not taking part in terrorism. They have a right to speak. That is democracy. I would not vote for the BNP. I would not trust them. But we have not been able to trust leading parties either, who thought they could do government on the cheap without taking responsibility for what the banks, big business and the rich were doing with their money, (and ours). There does not seem to be enough stability in economics, no stable jobs, university students unable to find useful employment. Too many are existing on benefits, having kids to claim benefits. The workplace is not a very friendly place today. Not many of us actually enjoy work. Things seem to be breaking down gradually, slowly. No one is taking responsibility for managing society and economics. The idea that if you work well and are a good citizen you will steer smoothly through life seems to be fading. Now you have to take wealth or income off others to survive, compete, swindle, pretend to be better than everyone else!

P.S. The guy who has done these killings in Norway should certainly be thoroughly investigated and tried, but I really do think he is a prime candidate for execution in any society that has a fair set of values. Why should society have to look after someone like that, a danger to all, who has very much lost the right to live by his actions.

Kurt- I partly agree with you. On the other hand this monster will have such a bad time in prison and be persecuted by the other prisoners and I think he deserves that- it would be a merciful way to go just being executed. Anyway they don't have death penality in Norway. But I think he should get life and that is not the law in Norway- 21 years is not enough for this deranged monster.

Richard- I sympathise with your parent's plight during the war. History only repeats itself if we don't do something about it today. I don't believe about bearing grudges. Then we would have to rule out quite a few countries and their good intentions to move away from their dark history. This man in Norway can't even be sentenced on the basis of insanity. That means we have to make laws against right-wing extremism- being a threat to the community and not just one man's actions- but collective behaviour.. As JoHn points out- we know what is on our doorstep and it should not be tolerated in any society- racial discrimination, arsen, threats- abomnible- This really disrupts peace and integrity of honest citizens. Well I am having trouble expressing this. I am really shocked by the right wing also and especially in my own country. atb ;)Pia

I agree about the lack of coverage and sympathy with Africa- in the west we are excusing ourselves with the financial crisis but we have much more to give others - so the help is progressing very slowly very much unfortunately. The Norwegian man saw the students and Gro Harlem Brundtland as protectors of Islam as they are not opposed to it and are advocates for integration and free societies. So he saw them as evil and not as humans- he was killing evil. He was a Temple Order supporter and saw himself as a knight of the Temple Order which was banned by the Pope in 1300ad as it was very anti-islam. Short he was a far right racist. I really couldn't give a hoot about his past as what he has done is so proposteropus that it is unforgivable. Maybe if it hadn't been young people- teenagers, hardly started out in life- maybe?? I am not expecting anyone to forget the attroicities of WW11 but we have to move on and let animosity take care of itself. I think we have to have a lot more faith in mankind and the goodness the future can bring and of course we have to work on it incessantly also by talking about it like we are doing now and trying to appease the harshness of the world by looking at it as kindly and positively as possible without too many grudges. I do sound comfortable don't I? Sorry about that- I know a lot of bad things are happening and maybe I am a bit removed from them- I hate suffering- have done a bit of it myself but now I am getting on in age I want life to be comfortable but I do take life seriously and death. atb Pia