A MODEST PROPOSAL

I think it is by Swift - you are meaning his plan that people should eat infants in time of food shortages? Still surprises me that although it was known at Darwin's time that a graph of food production against population growth always shows that starvation will exist in the modern world, that we do so little about it. I forget now the scientist who calculated it - no I don't - Malthus! British economists calculated in WWII that we would all be able to have substantially better rations if we just stopped feeding our dogs and let them starve to death. The British government never even dared to float this as a possibility. I also understand that in some seige on Paris, the zoo was raided for meat, and then of course there is the splendid film Delicatessen, where food is so scarce that lentils are currency and the owner of the butcher's shop advertises for janitors and then kills them and sells the meat... in that film, Docteur Livingstone is eaten and it is somehow more tragic when we discover that he was a trained chimp... We would be better eating, or sending to be eaten, corpulent adults. (I am still speaking satirically, you understand) - if we said that any adult over 35 who was still clinically obese in a years time would be eaten, firstly the people eating him would get greater benefit than eating our pets, secondly it would be a great incentive to get fit, thirdly the prospective candidates in our Logans-Runesque scenario would tend to eat less, giving more food to be circulated. If this plan is ever floated, I will be heavily investing in Ryvita and Slim-Fast on the stock market.

Your last name is "pack." It conjures up, the name "pack" that is, the image of Two Pack aka Tupac (Pronounced "2 pack"), who was also an animal rights advocate. I must confess, somewhat on a subliminally sarcastic level, that your name is also associated in my mind with names like "wolf pack" or "package" via the British trade route via plane or sea, depending on which century you are from. Having said that, I can vehemently conclude that you love animals and hate people. You probably thought of joining PETA pronounced PITA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) but you were rejected. Besides, you didn't like their slogan, EAT PEOPLE NOT ANIMALS, but then you were too smart. Everytime you went to America, you discovered corpulent people getting medical insurance benefits, but you couldn't get one. So you moved to Britain, attending some college, probably some second rate school like St. Andrews, thinking you were too smart for the Oxbridge type. You read the MODEST PROPOSAL by Johnathan Swift and took it seriously and then on re-reading you found it hilarious. Let me use my clairvoyance further, you felt gulity LATE ABOUT LAUGHING YOUR ARSE OFF. You may have even suspected that it was ironic and serious at the same type. You are making fun of the Chinese and their infant-eating practices, but you do not know whether they really eat infants at certain chinese hospitals or not. You are wondering whether you are a racist or not.

Steven, are you utterly crackers, or what? You are wrong on nearly every count. I don't think ANYONE in the history of the world has ever read Swift's proposal and taken it seriously. It is so self-evidently satirical. And I don't actually think it is hilarious, in fact it is not really even mildly amusing. The idea that someone might take it seriously, is, however, mildly amusing. Actually, I don't like animals all that much, and I adore people. Not only did I not flee America to come to a college in Britain, I've never lived in America. I never considered joining PETA because I'm a bloody carnivore and consider that until someone can grow a plant that genuinely tastes like bacon, I'm staying that way. I've never given a moments thought to 'the Chinese and their infant-eating practices', I can only assume you are indulging in a wild flight of fancy here. You don't ACTUALLY believe that Chinese people eat babies? If so, I suggest you read a newspaper that actually reports news, rather than the National Enquirer. I don't need to 'wonder if I am a racist or not', because I am not. It is that simple. I do not believe that you can judge people by their race or religion or skin-tone. Not a particularly complex belief and one that I believe is shared by the vast majority of the civilised world. The only bit of your logic I cannot fault is that my name 'Pack' conjures up the word 'Pack' - how long did that take to cook up, I wonder? I think you need perhaps to get out and mix with some real people for a while.

Don't know what it was about your original post Andrew, that drove Steve to reply in such a tone. Your second post though is a cracker.

lol. However, on a very serious note, did anyone see that horrendous documentary about 10 years ago I think called 'The Dying Rooms' which showed neglected children in Chinese orphanages being left to starve to death slowly? There were other horrors on that programme which haunt me to this day.

Am beginning to believe that Steve may actually be an artificial intelligence 'troll' programme that just spits out conspiracy theories and fractured arguments. I had thought I was being nice in my first post in actually trying to engage Steve in a conversation, having fallen out with him on the Yoko Ono post. But, hey-ho, I never knew Tupac was an animal rights activist, so you learn something every day.

I have suspected for a wee while, a troll... see sound of music thread.

So what's your point? I enjoy a bit of madness as a bit of destressing antidote. By the way Andrew, you spelled my name wrong.

Well, the two I've used have been Steve and Steven, both of which you yourself have used to identify yourself in this very thread. So, if you generally spell it Stephen, I apologise. Obviously that justifies an apology whereas calling someone erroneously a snob, implying that they can't distinguish satire from journalism, having attended a second-rate university (when I am in fact deeply proud of never even having attending an eighth-rate university), a hater of human beings and a racist would not... I think and vividly hope that you were not also accusing me of being a fan of the ghastly music of Tupac Shakur, as that really would have caused offence. Good luck with the trolling, I'm sure it must be very socially rewarding. Personally, I get more out of life by having conversations with people, but it takes all sorts, so I understand.

Apology accepted. And you caused no stress whatsoever, I am professionally nasty to people for a living and am bloody good at it.

*trembles*

*trembles even more*

*trembles* Why did the first monkey tremble? BAD NERVES Why did the second monkey tremble? PEER PRESSURE Why did the third monkey tremble? He didn't speak monkey language and was just imitating the others. This statement does not in any sense imply that anyone in this forum is a monkey.

Oh I don't know Steven ... I'd say there is clearly at least one monkey in this forum.

It's the year of the monkey.

and dont we know it...