Cultural Differences And Idiom

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Cultural Differences And Idiom

Cultural Differences and idiom - a sort of journal entry from June last year.

While driving back from Kroger, my boss said that there were hardly any sidewalks in the 'hood where I live. In England it's very rare not to have a pavement (or sidewalk).

Idiom: he uses this expression "let me give you some cool" when he means help me out by showing me himself how to do something.

I had never come across the expression "call you out" before tonight either.

Some more idioms:

American

"I have to call you out on what you said"

English

"Why are you saying that? Justify yourself."

American

"We like to hang out"

English

"We enjoy each other's company"

American

"It's a mighty fine day"

English

"The sun is shining"

**

The English will always state the obvious. For example, they will say "it's raining" when it is raining and both of them can see it's raining. The English tend to state the obvious as a conversation gambit. In restaurants or in stores, Americans will usually refer to a woman as ma'am and a man as sir, whereas the English rarely use honorifics like that. They may say "Give us a cup of tea, love" to a woman, and "Thanks mate for helping me" to men for example. The class distinction can also be a factor, if the person they are talking to is considered their peer or below them they will talk familiarly to them, if the person addressed is considered above them in social ranking, they will use polite forms. If the man is clearly high above them they would automatically use the term :"sir" whereas Americans use this term regardless of a person's social standing. I think this is because the English, particularly older generations, are more class conscious.

I found a link to a whole list of American idioms and their meanings here:

http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Teach/English-idioms-01.html

there are twenty four pages of idioms, a lot of which have crossed the Atlantic and made it into the English language.

I used to work for an American and I found that they tended to use long words (or a more correct word) in place of a simpler equivalent. They also used idiom more often than I did. A favorite expression they used was "we're on the tiger's back, we can't get off" to mean "we are committed to our decision now and can't back out". Another key difference is that English people will use a series of somewhat annoying catch phrases all the time, even without thinking:

"You have to appreciate that" -- "My view on this is"

"In the fullness of time" -- "Eventually"

"The thing is" -- "Consider this"

"The weird thing is" -- "Consider this point specifically"

"All being well" -- "Provided nothing screws up"

The English are renowned for understatement as well. For instance it is pissing down with rain, a force nine gale is blowing outside, they say "It's a bit wet and windy outside, I'd take your umbrella"; or, the current temperature is below freezing point, there is three feet of snow outside and they say "it's a bit chilly out, you'll need your scarf" and the best one, the house looks like it has been expertly trashed by around a dozen people : "it's bit messy in here".

The English are not known for their assertiveness either, they will use the words "maybe", "perhaps", "I think that", "a bit " or even "I guess" which is American idiom but has crossed the Atlantic. For instance: "I think she is quite beautiful" when referring to someone who is absolutely stunningly attractive, or "it's a bit smelly in here" when they enter a room that hasn't been lived in in three years. "A spot of lunch" -- "a three or four course meal taken between 12.30 and 2.30". "Tea" instead of "dinner". Or "dinnertime" to mean "lunchtime".

Time periods are expressed differently: English people would use "a fortnight" when they mean "two weeks", or when stating the time: "It's twenty past four" instead of "it's twenty after four" or even "4.20"

Lastly, non-verbal expressions such as "well", "er", are used to allow time for the speaker to think about what to say next; one expression I have noticed in use a lot is "uhuh" which is not even vocalised but almost a sound, English people would say "mm-mm" or use words like "excellent", "splendid", or "OK".

The Brits, I've noticed, are afraid of absolutely everything, as in: 'I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you'll have to put your umbrella in the foyer.'. 'I'm afraid we're out of jam doughnuts.' 'I'm afraid your daughter slugged another child and knocked him out. I'm afraid he went to hospital.' etc. They also love their tag questions, don't they?
Welcome back Ag, I hope you had a great holiday. Can't say I'm convinced by 'slugged' as Brit speak since here in the UK most people hate touching the slimey things.
Iceman, where are you in the US? Kroger's is mostly in the MidWest, such as my home town of Cincinnati. The first one about 'giving cool' sounds like a very recent hip hop slang expression. I'd never heard that one. The 'sir and ma'am' business also sounds like Midwest or South. That's not used regularly elsewhere.
how long do you think a fortnight is then?

 

'Sir' and 'ma'am' are used in the Southwest, for sure, but generally only in the service industry, or when one is in dispute with the phone company, or amongst older folk. I like it; it's a nice politeness in a world full of bad manners.
I read a book a while back called "Watching the English" by Kate Fox. It's brilliantly written, so true and very amusing. You'll find a lot more English idioms there and their explanations.
Wind storm Windy Hear my music: http://music.download.com/3600-5-100795586.html

There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed -
Dennett

A fortnight is two weeks, but almost no one in the U.S. would know that. Many people have heard the word used in British TV shows and movies, but very few have taken the time to learn what it means.
BTW, I looked at the link in the original post. Some of those explanations of the idioms are rather off the mark. It usually takes more than a few words to explain an idiom properly.
I live in Central Arkansas. It's a strange place, I am almost blase about tornado watches and severe thunderstorm warnings now. Big thunderstorms would happen only occasionally in the UK, they happen a lot of the time around now. On 2nd April there were a series of bad tornadoes in the midwest with many people injured or killed.

 

americans don't have fortnights! what do they use instead of 'furlongs per cubic fortnight' then?

 

I feel that you have misunderstood the British sense of humour with regard to the weather and playing things down, Iceman. If it is absolutely pouring down you might say "I think it could rain." and the response would likely be "Yes, looks as though it might." or "I think it's spitting already." The British air of nonchalance exemplified by Sean Connery's James Bond seems to have been adopted by the Americans as 'cool', stereotyped by such as Wesley Snipes, but somewhere along the way it seems to have lost its sparkle and morphed into a total disinterest that borders on plain boredom. While I don't expect a country with such a brief history to understand the finer points of our Great British traditions - I can't understand why you don't :O)
A recent episode of the Simpsons nailed it for me. Funny as it was, it's clear that Americans have no idea what goes on in England - only London.
There's a curious lopsidedness to it, because so much american culture, music, tv, and movies makes it over here we have a far better (though not perfect) understanding of them than they do of us. Any brit, for instance, could recognise a broad slice of US accents. Yet when I go to the states I am frequently, about once per trip, mistaken for an australian.

 

People regularly expressed surprise at my claiming to be English whilst in Santa Monica. I, in turn, regularly expressed surprise that the slew of grotesquely obese beings I encountered could still walk unaided. I think the world would be a better place if the whole of LA were lost to a meteor shower, or a giant robot showdown, or something.
Dan, the Australian thing is endemic in the US, I've been mistaken for an Oz everywhere from New York to LA and New Orleans to Detroit. All it proves is just how few Americans are familiar with foreign accents, which in part is a result of the miniscule percentage of US citizens that ever travel beyond their borders. One of the reasons that many Brits are scathing about America and Americans is because they mostly never visit the place and base their opinions on the few big-mouths that come here (those without big mouths usually don't make the radar), and the tainted views of the national press, TV and the likes of Neil and Slimey. (Neil is a nice guy but sadly misguided about most things foreign)
I have been called Australian, Irish, Scottish, German and some people ask me where I was from originally. My accent is London Essex.

 

I think the ones who ask where you are from are just being careful that they don't label you as Australian when you might be from Essex, iceman. We certainly don't mean to insult when we ask. And I'm not quite so sure that most garden-variety Brits could distinguish between a Texas vs Georgia accent, or a Philly vs. Noo Yawk accent. We -do- have some subtleties to our culture, you know, although they are few and far between. I agree about LA, however, happily dropping into the Pacific or disappearing in a robot showdown! As long as San Diego is preserved; I have several friends living there.
A lot of Americans view this part of the world as simply Europe, and fail to understand the boundaries. My sister brought a particularly thick Seppo over here for a holiday. He was comtinually asking, "How far is that from here?" when discussing Germany or Poland. He even phoned up a pal in Belgium with the words, "I've over here, let's do lunch." True. When it comes to cultural differences in language, myself and American friends would often misunderstand our greetings. "Alright?" I'd say, while they apparently thought, "Of course I'm alright. Do I not look alright?" Equally they'd greet me with, "What's up?" and I always used to think, "Nothing, why? Why should anything be up?" A point about the British. In an argument the British often apologise for having a point of view, "Well, I'm sorry but ....." Before deciding to buy my books you can view the first chapters for free by visiting: www.pabd.com/2004/books/cab_driver www.pabd.com/2005/books/its_been_emotional

 

iceman ... ' I have been called Australian, Irish, Scottish, German and some people ask me where I was from originally. My accent is London Essex. ' Well who's a lucky boy? I have been called Wanker, Prick, Idiot, Tosser, C*** AND an Australian. Most Americans think my accent is quintessentially English as spoke by the head bitch, when in fact I speak with a slob accent.

 

I guess you are being ironic. Why the sharpness of your post directed at me? Surely it can't be just because I used the word "gotten" in another post.

 

I reckon I could distinguish a good half a dozen different american accents, tell a kiwi from an australian or a pakistani from an indian more times than not. I don't think it's unreasonable then to expect smart, eductated americans top stop mixing me up with people who live ON THE FAR FUCKING SIDE OF THE GLOBE.

 

Any accent in English which is not obviously American or Canadian sounds vaguely 'British' to an American. Rather than being enraged, you could look at it another way: If you want to work in America, you will have a very significant advantage because of your British accent--regardless of what it is. Even the most horribly uneducated slob-like British accent sounds, to an American, like an Oxford don. Shameless plug for Warsaw Tales, available at www.new-ink.org
bet you couldn't tell my accent maddan - I can change it from American to English in a second - depends if I'm talking to my dad in Tx then it's American - if I'm with the british - it's English. Funny though everyone thinks I am an Australian - trans -atlantic accent you know. But I could tell you were English straight away.
I've been travelling a lot over the last 6 months and I've found that most people know where I'm from just by looking at me. I wish I had made more effort with languages when I was younger though - especially Italian and German. I've tried learning Thai recently and I reckon it must be one of the most difficult languages for a European to learn - certainly I'll never be able to write it... I can just about manage American though :O)
Funnily, I didn't find it difficult to learn Thai at all (I took an intensive course for two months whilst in Bangkok), but I have a knack for languages. Many of the other farangs in the class couldn't get past the tones, and this is the most difficult part in learning. Grammatically, it's far simpler than any European language, but one has to get over the idea that our inflections are the same as theirs. The language I just can't seem to get my tongue around, at all, is French, which is pathetic. justyn is right about British accents; the husband speaks with a broad Cambridge accent (NOT as in: University), and he was regularly accosted by women saying: oooo, I LOVE your accent! Much to his pleasure. Many Americans also felt that somehow he was better educated, being English (saying he studied in Cambridge didn't hurt, although he failed to mention it was the Polytechnic). Hell, we don't know the difference.
Richard, there was no sharpness, you're jumping at shadows. The post was meant to be a little humourous whilst giving the 'know nothings' here the opportunity to get in a cheap shot or two at me. Your use of Americanisms has been commented on previously, if you wish to use them it's your business, I have no interest in drawing attention to it every time it happens. ( Notes the multi-skilled one is expanding CV at every post and expects some flack heading in that direction. Dons tin hat inserts ear-plugs)

 

Hmm, rereading the post, I suppose it sounds like I was bragging, but I wasn't. Just stating a fact. Isn't it ok to have knacks for things anymore, like languages or plumbing? I can go back and re-edit, if it makes you happy that I don't have a knack for anything. *Puts on flak jacket and steel helmet, then goes to make a cup of tea*
Personally, I envy you your facility with languages AG. All being well - I'm back in Thailand just in time for the Sonkran festival so I'm hoping to get plenty of practice speaking my few odd phrases and dodging cupfulls of scented water. I'm not too bad at pronouncing - it's remembering the words and phrases I find really difficult... and that in Thai females car and men crap :O)
Just remember the inflection, mykle, and you'll be ok. Like most people, Thais appreciate the efforts to speak their mothertongue, but note, depending on how you inflect, the word 'pee', for example, can mean: 'elder sibling' , 'ghost', or 'year'! And say 'krap' after everything when you can; most farangs drop (or don't know) the polite endings and the Thais find this unbearably rude, much like the Brits find it rude when a German says: 'Give me the salt', without adding 'please'! I'm so envious of your trip; I haven't been back to Thailand in ten years now, and miss it dreadfully. Such a wonderful country. Eat some 'som tam' for me! :-)
Has anybody else found this when driving in France? You put your hand up to say thank you for being let out, only to spy a very perplexed french countenance in your rearview mirror. I began to think they thought I was giving some sort of facist salute.
I've been to Thailand several times but never stayed long enough to learn the language. OTOH, just from listening to it, I would think it should be relatively easy to learn. I say that because I can actually hear individual words when someone speaks Thai. That is not the case with Polish, for example. Listening to someone speak Polish, it all sounds like one long word with no vowels. What I find odd is why some people are so annoyed when the rest of the world fails to guess where they are from based on their accent. I have routinely been mistaken for something other than what I am, including British, Canadian,Australian, and German, and it's never once annoyed me. Of course, I was not necessarily speaking English when this took place, but still. I just tell them the truth and that's the end of it. Shameless plug for Warsaw Tales, available at www.new-ink.org
I find a language with 44 letters, with many looking very similar, is not immediately assimilated by my weary Western brain. For those who think it can't be that hard - you might be right - here is a link to the alphabet: http://www.thai-language.com/dict/ You will notice it also translates simple words and offers help with pronuciation. I can pronouce words just fine (mostly) I just can't remember them :O(
You're obviously not very au fait with the British scornful attitude to trumpet blowing. It's not only 'ok' to be knowledgeable or have a gift for anything, it's positively admired and envied, but it's SO FUCKING boring to hear someone bragging, and that's what YOU do, in spades. You labour the point every time. Ya wanna know something? It pisses people off. You come across as the typical know-all, and in most cases that indicates a lack of self-esteem. Why don't you just keep your bloody self-agrandisement to yourself? As for editing your posts! I thought you'd learned THAT lesson but apparently you haven't. I wonder why Slimey spends so much time in the far east? Oh yes, I remember now, he probably has more success there than at home here.

 

A month chillaxing in Thailand, instead of tossing in Twang Town, is just what you need grumpy. It would change your life! :O)

There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed -
Dennett

Missi, they recommend eating yams and soy milk for mood swings and hot flashes during menopause. I'd suggest you try it. Meditation cools the temper, as well. Ohm shanti ohm ohm ohm, you grouchy old git.
I am useless at learning languages, 5 years of secondary school french left me only able to ask directions to either the library or the toilet, not very useful unless I need a good book to read on the throne. Yearly visits to Germany as a child only taught me how to sing a song about a fly man catching flies, and after a visit to Prague where my friends tried their hardest to teach me some important phrases I came away only knowing the word for beer.
Czech is a mouthful! I had a Czech friend try to show me how to say that 'r' with the little triangle thingie above it, like saying 'shh' whilst rolling an 'r'. My god. I think most of the Eastern European languages are tongue-twisters... Luckily, the word for 'beer' seems to be nearly universal, with one or two minor changes to pronunciation! If nothing else, we won't be thirsty during our travels...
James, Having a British accent may give you a slight advantage in social situations, but it doesn't get you a Green Card. It doesn't even get you into the Green Card lottery. However, having an Irish 'passpot't practically guarantees you not oinly a job but a Green Card too (in that order). Before deciding to buy my books you can view the first chapters for free by visiting: www.pabd.com/2004/books/cab_driver www.pabd.com/2005/books/its_been_emotional

 

That's true. I was assuming the person had a green card already, or could talk the company into helping with it. OTOH, it is essentially impossible for a US citizen to get a work permit in the UK for any reason. There are some exceptions, but extremely few and very far between. Unless brought over by a subsidiary of a US company or unless married to a Uk citizen, forget it. No one will even talk to you, not even emigration lawyers LOL. Shameless plug for Warsaw Tales, available at www.new-ink.org
The annual Green Card (it's actually pink) isn't open to UK citizens, but there are several other ways of getting one. The easiest appears to be to marry a US citizen but that has it's drawbacks, doesn't it AG? It seems that being a rock star or actor opens doors, or a $500,000 bank account which you're willing to invest in a new business providing at least 10 jobs for US citizens, and they'll welcome you with open arms. Of course, finding an employer that can convince immigration that you're indispensable works too, but I've recently been told that the easiest ways are either to sneak in from Mexico (the authorities have SO MANY they don't even bother to send 'em back any more, unless of course you're Mexican!), or become an asylum seeker. That last one is a bit difficult for Brits, I guess. I can't believe AG has any trouble rolling her r's. I think she meant 'hot flushes', hot flashes are what you hope to get from a lady friend on a Saturday night! (Or any other time)

 

Foster
Anonymous's picture
Just recently entered into the maze of red tape to make my wife legal over here - what a mess. Being married gives us the authority to petition, but does nothing to shorten or simplify an enormously complicated process. But she at least entered the counry legally - that makes all the difference, it seems. Anyway, we're one step closer to moving back...
The only trouble with marrying a US citizen (or from my POV, a UK citizen) is the 'being married' part of it. The forking over of 500 bucks or whatever for the citizenship application is a piece of cake. I don't, actually, have any trouble rolling my r's. You're probably right about 'flush' vs 'flash'. I'm not yet at the age where I need to know.
The legal age here for the 'flash' bit is sixteen! My sarcasm is lost on you, though I just KNOW you'll claim you got it.

 

I edited my previous post to say 'married to a UK citizen' rather than a US citizen. My original post had it backwards. If a US company really wants to employ a non-US citizen, they will go through the process for you. It is not really that difficult, or at least it wasn't. It is largely a formality of advertising the job, hoping no one applies, rejecting everyone who does, etc. The process in Europe is very similar, but the difference is that virtually no company will do it. In fact, it is illegal to enter the UK for the purpose of job hunting, though you can enter if you have an invitation for an interview. There are stories of people being sent home at passport control because they had a CV in their briefcase. Those stories might not be true, but they sound plausible to me. Of course, there are exceptions for people who are starting businesses of a certain size or have certain skills in high demand, but those are few and far between. I just went through this with a company that hires interim manager/professionals. After much to-ing and fro-ing, they finally decided that they did not want to be bothered with my work permit needs, so I told them to take me off their database. Shameless plug for Warsaw Tales, available at www.new-ink.org
Missi, I don't suppose it ever occurs to you that, just sometimes, I choose to ignore your sarcasm and take your comments at face value, as often they are much funnier that way... In my passport I now have a leave to remain insert that labels me 'Settlement Wife', which tickles me to no end, it sounds so archaic. The hoops I had to jump through to get it, (even though I've been married to a UK national for ten years, have two children with dual nationality, and had already lived, worked, and paid taxes in the UK in the past), were unbelieveable. God knows how anyone enters this country illegally and manages to stay, let alone legally... immigration in the States seems positively laid-back in comparison...
I know people moving/moved in both direction, so far it seems the UK is harder to get in to, but they treat you much better during the process.

 

This somewhat changes my idea of going the whole hog and becoming a naturalized US Citizen.

 

My best friends sister, married to a US serviceman (now retired) for 35 years had to sign a form accepting that in the event her husband died she would have no right to stay in the US. Her husband told me she was obliged to sign this declaration when she first entered the US all those years ago. She maintained her British nationality for the subsequent 25 years at which point it became economically advantageous to take US citizenship, which she did. AG, you'd be surprised at what occurs to me, and there's absolutley nothing about you that would surprise me. Your inferiority complex would appear less apparent if you would stop trying to prove you're superior all the time. You may have the last word in this pointless exchange, suffice it to say the forum was a happier place during your recent welcome absence.

 

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