Why Can't My Lizard Speak 1?

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Mon, 2012-04-16 21:12

One thing I can never understand the Dinosuars were on this planet for 160 million years according to the boffins, if evolution is inevitable why did they not evolve, we evolved in a fraction of the time so did we have help or before the great Ice age did they leave the Earth to find another home.

Tue, 2012-04-17 02:49

rjnewlyn

Sooner or later someone's going to find out that the dinosaurs discovered email and social networks and lost the will to live.

Tue, 2012-04-17 08:53

(Reply to #2) #3

Clive-Pearson

Dam do you think a reptile invented Facebook, oh hang on no thats "there are a lot of reptiles on facebook" he he he nice one rjnewlyn.

Tue, 2012-04-17 12:28

andrea

Didn't they evolve into the Babylonian Brotherhood, including George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, Kris Kristofferson and (rather bizarrely) Boxcar Willie? At least according to Icke :) Aren't you on the wrong forum, though? http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Wed, 2012-04-18 13:42

(Reply to #4) #5

Clive-Pearson

OOPS Yes ok I will attempt to move it lol

Tue, 2012-04-17 14:28

Rhiannonw

I have a scientific background, and like many others with even more such training, realised long ago that evolution (of the amoeba to man variety)is simply a desire for believing chance can account for all. There is no evidence for it. Yes, there is change, but not of the 'big, new information' type, just small variations, and selection of those most suited to new situations. Mutations normally cause damage, like breaking one nut in a machine. Rhiannon

Wed, 2012-04-18 13:39

(Reply to #6) #7

Clive-Pearson

Ok Rhiannonw so your saying then you are agreeing with the theory multiple variety through infinite diversity. A principle I myself agree with however it still does not overcome the laws of evolution, with so many different of era's of dinosaur and varieties of species why no evolution. After all we are all made from the same basic material, and the evolutionary path of many species can be traced to a specific time. Either by fossil evidence or other scientific means, yet man evolved in a relatively short time compared with the number of years that other creatures were on the Earth, from prehistoric man to modern man in less than a 5th of the time spent on the planet compared with other species Eukaryota period first Cells with a nucleus 2,100,000,000 years. Animalia Animals 590,000,000 years ago. Homo sapiens Humans 500,000 years ago Seems we are quick developers but why no other intelligent sentient race in all that time .

Wed, 2012-04-18 14:38

Rhiannonw

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the theory multiple variety through infinite diversity.' But I don't agree that there are 'laws of evolution', – as knowledge increases, the more it is realised that evolution has no mechanism to make it possible, and also, that the fossil evidence shows how little has changed over the eras for many species, to which I think you are alluding. The fossil evidence indicates quick burial, which clashes with the slow deposition of rocks favoured for the concept of millions of years for evolution. In modern times, layers of rocks have been formed very quickly after volcanic eruptions. And that is the kind of time scenario needed for fossil formation. Other dating methods have the huge difficulty of knowing how much of the relevant chemicals were there in the first place, and need an assumption of no rate change, and no other system changes during any catastrophic events of the past. Which is probably why there are usually great discrepancies between them. There are many, many evidences that the earth is not billions of years old. So, I suppose I am agreeing with you in that if evolution of ourselves and the differnt kinds of animals had occured, (for which I say there is no evidence, and disagrees with the whole of scripture, and beliefs held world-wide) from simpler creatures, then yes, one would have expected more intelligent species, and one would be puzzled by all the 'living fossils' (creatures who are no different from their "ancient" ancestors of fossil note that are still living today),which I suppose was your original question about your lizard! So, the answer is that evolution has not occurred at all. We were created with intelligence, the dinosaurs and lizards without that kind of intelligence! Rhiannon

Wed, 2012-04-18 16:04

Clive-Pearson

So Rihannonw I take it you are of the opinion like that of some religious doctrines that man was created by God, in his own image and evolution had no part in our being ? That is unless I have completely misunderstood your line of thought, would you probably be of the same belief therefore of the religions that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. Being that the case I understand where your coming from, I disagree totally being an atheist but we are all entitled to our beliefs. I do feel though should they prove life on other planets you may feel somewhat let down by your beliefs, they will most likely vary in species and probably have their own beliefs if they are intelligent ? The Earth by the way is well older than a billion years old, and sorry yes we do have proof of that I guess its just a question of belief.

Wed, 2012-04-18 16:34

#10

Rhiannonw

If there were any other life in the universe (intelligent or otherwise) it would have had to be created by a powerful intelligence (laws of thermodynamics), and the implications in the plan of redemption in Christ being sent to take guilt and save, is that this is the only world God created with men in his likeness. I do not think there is any proof that the universe is a billion years old or more, though such would be necessary if any evolution could possibly occur. Do you have any theory for the start of the universe? Rhiannon

Wed, 2012-04-18 17:05

(Reply to #10) #11

Clive-Pearson

As I said I am an atheist you are not a question of belief, if I had to put my trust in someone it will be a scientist that at least try's to show me proof that what he says is correct. I can believe with all my heart that I can fly, till I jump of the cliff and gravity shows me I can't. You can postulate all you like until you are blue in the face, but you can not show me god exists as I said a question of belief. To imagine that even if there is a God! he would only create one World in one endless universe is a little vain, but the original question is still there for those who are not on a god crusade. Why didn't the creatures that were on this Planet for 160 million years evolve,you say that we were placed here as intelligent beings in that case we are very possibly not of this Planet.

Wed, 2012-04-18 21:56

#12

andrea

Sorry, but I fail to see what the 'laws of thermodynamics' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics) have to do with being 'created by a powerful intelligence'. And you say: If there were any other life in the universe (intelligent or otherwise) it would have had to be created by a powerful intelligence - Er...why? Can you provide credible evidence? and ...the implications in the plan of redemption in Christ being sent to take guilt and save, is that this is the only world God created with men in his likeness. To people who don't believe in 'god', this is meaningless. How do you explain this statement to them? So, the answer is that evolution has not occurred at all. - Really? And what if I say it has? Dogmatism is never a good idea... http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Wed, 2012-04-18 21:59

#13

andrea

Oh, and WIKIPEDIA is not always the most reliable source, but it might be a good starting point... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Thu, 2012-04-19 00:07

#14

Clive-Pearson

Good points Andrea as for quoting the laws Of thermodynamics, perhaps she should use a dictionary to find out what it means first. But one thing is right you can never make a blind person see unless you have the right tools. These tools to an adamant believer do not exist, the only truth will be when their world is turned upside down. This will happen when either A/ a life form shows itself to us B/ we develop the technology to find them C/ the believer dies and finds out for themselves. Which ever way the fact is none of them can answer the one question I ask ( apart from why my Lizard can't speak) and that is if God exists who created God ? that usually makes them say he just was derrr not an answer.

Thu, 2012-04-19 08:44

#15

Rhiannonw

Andrea, I'll try to briefly(!) come back on your points. I'm not trying to attack, just share some things as it sounds as if you may not have heard the fuller explanation of what we believe. 1. The laws of Thermodynamics have to do with constancy of energy in the universe, and its tendency to move to a less useful form, ie that things left to themselves ‘run down’ ie for matter to go from disorder to DNA needs input of energy and design. If you look at any other object in the universe other than life, you would presumably think, someone designed and created this, it didn’t just happen. 2.re 'other life' This is just referring to the above, I am not saying there is any such life, but that if such were, it would have had to be created, it couldnt just happen by chance. There is no mechanism for dust to life. Originally they hoped acquired characteristics could be inherited – stretching a neck to reach leaves etc. but now have to rely on mutations. Mutations are normally harmful, for many coincident ones would be needed to make any useful change, create new information. 3.explaining the 'plan of redemption' ref: The whole of the Bible is about the historical Jesus, and why he came. I was only saying, that as God took the trouble to do this for us, it seems unlikely that he has made another such world. 4.My comment 'the answer is that evolution has not occurred at all.' was said, in answer to the original question ‘Why can't my lizard speak?’ which I don’t think anyone has really tried to answer, except in fun! I just realised that, it is no problem if you do not accept evolution happened anyway, and is in fact a real problem to evolutionary scientists, as many creatures long thought only present in the fossil record now are shown to be living, or almost identical to living ones. 5. I am well aware of the many assumptions about the age of the universe. But as I said above, some are circular, assuming evolution, – those thick rock layers must have been put down slowly, despite fossils needing to be buried quickly, and often showing signs of catastrophic death; those rocks must be a certain age, because they have certain fossils, which ‘must’ be a certain age; and fundamental assumptions in ‘dating methods’. There are very many indications of a young age of the earth. eg DNA in “ancient” fossils, also Dinosaur blood cells etc. , are not consistent with their supposed age, but make more sense if the remains are young; Polystrate fossils—tree trunks in coal; Rate of erosion of coastlines, horizontally; Rate of erosion of continents vertically; Amount of salt in the sea; Pressure in oil / gas wells indicate the recent origin of the oil and gas; Experiments show that with conditions mimicking natural forces, oil forms quickly; it does not need millions of years, consistent with an age of thousands of years … http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth CP asks who created God, which I think most people would consider a non-question, but he didn’t reply to my question about whether he has any ideas about the start/origin of the universe, which seems to me to be a much more pertinent question. Anyway, as I said, I have not tried to be attacking, just sharing something of what we believe and why, which may be of some interest to some. It is also not just a few eccentric scientists who accept this explanation of origins see http://creation.com/ and other sites. I have written on the subject a bit on http://www.abctales.com/story/rhiannonw/limitations-science-study-past http://www.abctales.com/story/rhiannonw/biochemistry http://www.abctales.com/story/rhiannonw/great-delusion It seems to be a question of whether you want to believe in evolution, or in divine creation. regards, and sorry, it doesn't look brief! Rhiannon

Thu, 2012-04-19 09:21

#16

Clive-Pearson

I am led to believe Rhiannon the Universe was created when "unknown" forces combined causing a colossal explosion in the void that was space, these forces became known as the big bang. Over Millions of years the gases that were left as a result of the explosion, combined compacted and formed Planets Stars and eventually life NOT SIX DAYS but millions or even billions of years. Now I do concede that something had to have made those original forces, and that may be some all powerful omnipotent being but it wasn't a God as we are led to see him it whatever, and it certainly didn't send a god like son to earth to forgive our sins. You have your beliefs Rhiannon and I have mine yours are based on faith, mine are based on life and the reality that proof is all. You give me one solid piece of proof that Jesus existed and was the son of God that is not based on faith or hearsay. BUT PLEASE don't tell me there is an all powerful loving God watching over us , when a Child dies needlessly every 20 seconds, when someone somewhere goes out and kills hundreds of people in the name of his or her so called benevolent god. When millions of people across the planet are facing starvation and poverty , because if you do prove he exixts I will call him an ARSEHOLE to his face and suffer the consequences because as a God he stinks . Now if that's not plain enough for you how I feel about him it her whatever, then maybe you should go see your therapist and get your money back.

Thu, 2012-04-19 19:23

#17

Clive-Pearson

You been watching too much Bruce Almighty FTSE lol. I do understand that he may not be able to do everything, that just goes to show that if he does exist he aint as powerful as everyone thinks . And many people have missed the very basic answer to the question, most of them did evolve and are around us everyday Birds and many of them do indeed talk ? So who is to say that a more sentient race of thinking reptiles did not evolve millions of years ago, would certainly explain a few things. I would have thought if they did then when the Earth faced imminent destruction by an approaching Meteor ( that they probably would have been able to detect ) they merely cleared off and found another habitable Planet well that's if they were evolved enough. I would also like to point out that there is a force somewhere out there that created us all, I just choose not to be small minded and try and name something I could never possibly understand.

Fri, 2012-04-20 08:07

#18

Rhiannonw

I don’t think there is much to say to all that, only I’m sorry you both feel so bitter, and so sure and scornful about the God you’re rejecting. Maybe I should add that I do have scientific training (Biochemistry degree) [[comment from ?]]It is evident that, no matter what you might have memorised in order to pass exams, you haven't understood any of it.You seem very assumptive! But I have no desire to arguments. and many others are far more qualified than I who are convinced of these things. [[comment from ?]]Would you care to name them?they could be found by studying the Australian website you deride But I don't think they are rude to those who don't agree. I don’t see the comments above show any careful reading of the points I made. ‘Living fossils’ as I used it above had nothing to do with bacteria. [[comment from ?]]You think cyanobacteria are not 'living fossils'? Please explain your reasoning. I said that how I had used the term was in a much larger sense. Bacterial ‘evolution’ does not have any new information arising. [[comment from ?]]Even allowing for the terrible grammar, does that sentence mean anything?Sorry about my grammar! Evolution is about new information arising, not just information being deleated ie genetic information, for new characteristics. There is actually plenty of historical evidence for Jesus, [[comment from ?]]Where will I find it? On a site for historians if you please, not one for religious nuts.even those who don't want to believe much, accept the main fact of his existence, and find it very difficult to find any alternative explanation for his resurrection. and his claims stand up. [[comment from ?]]Which claims? Stand up to what? His claims of divinity, not just being a good moral teacher, his claims of resurrection. Stand up to a careful reading of the whole account, doesn't read like a madman, or deceiver's lifestyle, doesn't read like a hoax, and changed the disciples and very very many since from weak, some wicked, willing to be put to death. The deep troubles of this life will be stopped, and even now, those who call on him for help do find it, and know they wait for the reperfected world, as he first made it. Rh

Fri, 2012-04-20 00:49

#19

Clive-Pearson

Here here FTSE I could not have put it better myself except I would have used the logic of Spock ( Not Doctor but MR ) instead of Holmes. We are fighting a loosing battle here my friend, the faithful are stoic in their beliefs and that's fine I have no problem with their beliefs. As far as I am concerned they can believe the Moon is Cheese, but what really hacks me off is when they use every simple thing to push their beliefs down our throats . When they do they are saving us from ourselves when we do it we are falling for the Devils rhetoric,but hey what the hell everyone has a right to be stupid. So I am happy with being stupid in the knowledge that I will never go to heaven, due to my pagan beliefs that Jesus was just a carpenter who could tell a good yarn if he existed at all. Why because from what I hear it's full of Paedophile priest's and vicars, so excuse me if I would rather not socialise with them even after death. Rhiannon I am far from bitter I have a good life even though your god chose to give me cancer at 17, and it was a fantastic team of doctors that saved me not Jesus. So next time you hear of someone raping and killing a child , or some mass murderer killing 77 innocent people while on a quiet Sunday at the lake. Then give me some bullshit about god giving us choices to be good or evil, tell that to the victims who had no choice but to die. Lastly if little green blue pink or yellow men from another planet land and blow your God stuff to crap and make you realise you are the fool, don't call on us stupid unbelievers to help you out because you'll find out your on your own. Then again to be quite unbiased ( er not ) if Jesus the bible and all that turns out to be true, let him know my thoughts for me would you because I don't want to know the guy.

Fri, 2012-04-20 08:23

#20

Rhiannonw

Please don't insert any more comments in that please, as it will get unmanageable. And I can't see how to disable the edit button! I don't think I can say anything more useful. Rhiannon

Fri, 2012-04-20 10:08

#21

Clive-Pearson

Oh I see due to the fact that your argument is being rubbished by other people, you decide that we shouldn't put any more of our arguments forward. Now isn't that just typical of the religious dogma that has infected our society over the centuries, "You don't agree with me so shut up". Sorry Rhiannon you started this but obviously feel its your right to silence people just because they don't agree with you. So pilot said to the crowd " I can release one who would you wish that to be " the crowd shouted back " Give us Barabbas free Barabbas" Pilot replied " you wish me to condem this man who has done nothing and free a murderer" again the crowd shouted " Give us Barabbas" So Pilot freed Barabbas and the crowd called for the crucifixion of Jesus. Pilot called for his servants to bring him water, " I wash my hands of this, you will carry this burden not I " The words might not be exact but that's the gist of what happened we are led to believe. So even in the bibles own telling of the story, the people of that time were a cruel uneducated rabble, who had only the lust for blood. These are the ones who then supposedly realised that this was the Son Of God and decided to write a book praising the one they had committed to death, and we should believe them. The same people who for the last Two Thousand years have been fighting with everyone else and causing death and destruction throughout the world, yeah off course I will un conditionally surrender my beliefs to them NOT !. And if you want to stop getting notifications of us rubbishing your ! Useful comments ! just select NO Notifications on the bottom of this post.

Fri, 2012-04-20 11:28

#22

Rhiannonw

I was in no way suggesting you stop posting, I was simply asking that the comment above which had comments inserted could be left alone, as it seemed to be getting unwieldy, and I didn't know how to disable the edit button. That has nothing to do with telling you to shut up. I'm sorry you feel so angry. Rh (and I also was saying I suspected it was probably time for me to stop posting any more comment on the thread myself anyway)

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