Imagination Vs knowledge

haha.. Very impressive shit denver...very impressive.

>Think of Imagination as the ability to construct linear thoughts. Knowledge is the accumulation of those thoughts and processing them utilizing imagination.< OK. I can See no way to separate Imagination from Knowledge denver. Dose 'thought' not require Imagination? Leading ultimately to varying degrees of understanding and therefor Knowledge? I don't see how thoughts can not be reseeded by Knowledge, yet I can see how Imagination and thought are one and the some thing. Surely to 'think' implies we are thinking about 'something' and that something is what we call Knowledge. How do we separate the thought from the subject being thought about? How can a 'thought' be without knowledge? I may well be confusing my self hear..

Wouldn't the "thought process" be the two working in concert? A person's intelligence could be a cumulative result of their ability in both regards. Take writing for example; A writer may imagine anything and write about it, but if there is no basis in fact, it lacks plausibility and isn't believable, it's just random thoughts with no basis in fact... So, having an imagination with no knowledge is useless (sorta like Jasper). Knowledge is the brick we use to build with. Imagination is the mortar that holds it together. Or maybe the other way around. And what about stucco? Wow...that's even cooler shit isn't it? Go smoke some weed, it'll come to you.

Ohhh, and on the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. That's a simple one. The egg came first. The very first chicken came from an egg. Who know's what chicken like thing laid it?

A subserviant chicken? You pair look like a pair of old yapping nerds...erm...yapping to yourselves. Oh!!!! Bugger!!! Now i've fucking joined in. er....what was the question?

Flash, put your chicken suit on and power up the web camera. We are nerds...watcha expect...fluffy girl talk?

>I wonder if a fish would know what dry is then....using it's artistic imagination of course?< Jasper. Is their any reason that a fish could/would not ponder this question any less than we ponder the question of what we mean by Infinite? How do we actually know what a fish ponders? I think therefor I am.....A Fish? >Knowledge is justified true belief< Jude, this is Poetry. Its I think therefor I am - 'with justification'. >If you think of the universe in the process of becoming than you can think of it simply in terms of comprising of things that exist, and the unknowable things that are yet to exist. Then knowledge would be about understanding better that which already exists and the rational and analytical approach of science in collecting empirical data probably best exemplifies the approach of aquiring it.< I do love this argument llegs. It fits well with my every day thinking processes. Its instinctive to me and so a mind set in which I feel comfortable. To comfortable perhaps?

Well i think you need a good shag John.

>Be careful John....If knowledge comes before imagination your playing with a Socaratic fire in a very big can of worms!< Yes Jasper I had considered this, but I'm not really asking weather Knowledge comes before Imagination as such. Personally, I believe that Knowledge is the product of imagination. If we did not imagine possibility's, why would we have strife to develop methodology's to make possibility a reality? >Q: If I saw an Alien or a Ghost, how would I know without seeing one before.< Well I suppose the simplest answer is it would be unlikely to conform with our model of identification. If I think about it when next in town, I will have a look for the book.

So true Flash. But what came first?

"Your playing with a Socaratic fire in a very big can of worms!" Er .... roast worm, anyone?

god ....

Imagination or knowledge... Which is more important for a good shag?

*Winks at Denver* Cant believe Flashy offered me a shag.. *ant getting me in no frigging chicken costume*

Picasso: "Every act of creation is first of all an act of destruction" Well, if destruction is a cumulative effect of small disturbances then creation IS first of all an act of destruction. Any act of creation is an act of change, which presumes DISTURBANCE. Without disturbance change is IDEAL and like perpetual machines. If you consider the microstates of changes/disturbances then each microstate has a way for this destruction. The ensemble average of all the determinants (parameters) of this micro destruction (which CAN also lead to a full scale destruction, if uncontrolled) is nothing but a metastable state or "Creation". Einstein: "Imagination is more important than knowledge." From causal POV, imagination should come before knowledge. Causality also demands some "information" before "imagination". From the perspectives of information theory, knowledge is different from information. You need an added CATALYST called "intelligence" in between. However, this can exclude cases of serentipity. When people went for some persuit and came back with an entirely new information. But then to convert this information into knowledge, an entire processing regimen has to be followed. Imagination is one of the elements of this intermediate process. (Sources: Martin Rees, Six Numbers; Roger Penrose, Shadows of the Mind) Solidus, Debashish

Corrigenda: this intermediate process SHOULD BE these intermediate processes

Some people keep a tabula rasa for life...

hm...right.sharp left.left or right dominant dependant on results of sharp left. fully active with a light garnish.

Dose anyone actually understand what the F**K jasper is talking about? F****d If I do..

reall y i dont have a clue

Yes he's giving us an ongoing and overlong demonstration of what its like to be a pedantic self-important over blown moron suffering from gibbering senile demnetia. Please feel free to add to the list. Jaspiee is twat by the way, please say this at the end of every post you do.

Apparently, Jasper adores me. But it's only because I'm conventionally overeducated, and hide the sweetest side of my truest nature within that man things crisis I suffer from so badly and often. I shit you not.

See, Jasper does talk sense at times.

Yes there is a difference between the two. In philosophical thought and indeed any thought knowledge is defined as follows: Knowledge is justified true belief. If I know that p, then p must be true, but more is required – I must be justified in believing p. So, on the traditional conception, a person X knows that p if and only if (i) X believes that p (ii) It is true that p (iii) X is justified in believing that p A theory that later becomes knowledge may begin as an act of imagination. I "imagine a hypothesis". I may believe it but it is not true therefore not knowledge. I may believe it AND it is true but I am not justified in believing, because for example I have not carried out the research or experimentation to support my claim. Therefore it is not knowledge. An act of imagination can but does not necessarily become knowledge.

So what's a man things crisis?

getting your willy trapped in a revolving door?

Hen, I think it is the not knowing of that which you oftenly suffer from. At least, I think... *Lets not ask Jasper*

If you think of the universe in the process of becoming than you can think of it simply in terms of comprising of things that exist, and the unknowable things that are yet to exist.* Then knowledge would be about understanding better that which already exists and the rational and analytical approach of science in collecting empirical data probably best exemplifies the approach of aquiring it. Imagination is then about what is yet to exist and it is all to play for. Imagination leads/creates, science follows. * If you don't subscribe to this view than you must believe that everything you see today has always existed, including TV sets as well as bioligical life in the form that we see it now.

An interesting thread this John. An age old question chicken and egg thing. For me they are equal. One bounces off the other. Some knowledge is inherited, instinctive. Imagination expands as knowledge grows in relation to the arts and most other things in life too. imo. Flash, do you want a smack botty then?lol Be a good boy now or I will set my choo choo poem on you!rofl. Jasper. I understand you! Very phylosophical. All a bit too deep for me though. Tai

my x used to believe in p. ewwww! dirty girl! I don't care if it is sterile look at these bloody sheets!

I think Picasso's claim seems so trite it is barely worth saying - if what he means is that you are getting rid of a blank canvas, or page, or stone, then so what? This doesn't add anything to our knowledge of the creative process. If on the other hand, he is saying that when you begin creating something you are actually destroying the perfect glistening image you had of it in your head, because you'll never manage to get it exactly how you wanted it, well there's a little more depth to that but it still doesn't add anything. There's a horrible quality of Picasso's claim that makes it sound like you're adding on "so you might as well not bother", which just infuriates me. Imagination v knowledge depends on the context - if I want to be entertained then I want imagination, if I'm being driven in a car I would prefer that the person who installed the brakes had knowledge of engineering rather than just imagined how they might work. (And I actually liked Jasper's comment of whether fish can imagine what 'dry' might be)

Arthur: "what does it feel like?" Ford: "it's a bit like being drunk" Arthur: "Oh, well that's not so bad" Ford: "Try telling that to a glass of water"

"Hen, I think it is the not knowing of that which you oftenly suffer from." Don't be enigmatic. I wish to know more of this man things crisis, that I might expose the sweetest side of my truest nature, rather than the less sweet side of my truest nature, or the sweetest side of my less true nature. Whichever it is you think I am hiding behind.

What an bass-akwards view of reality J-lo. Imagination doesn't stem from knowledge. Imagination is a substitute for knowledge. Imagination is a result of awareness. One can become aware of somethings existence and then imagine what it is like or they can experience it and then know what it is like. If one has no knowledge of something, they can only imagine it. This is what separates fools from the rest. Only a fool believes in imagination as knowledge.

""or the sweetest side of my less true nature".....false statement...tautology and rhetorical!" Yes, I know. But you're the fool who came out with it.

me as a writer and a artist yes they are the same

I've been trying to think this one through from a purely Philosophic stand point. Unfortunately, I cant get away from the idea that Imagination must precede Knowledge, on the basis that 'reality' only becomes a fact after and only after 'we' conceptualize it in to existence. The problem I have with that idea though, is why then do we not all posses radically different models of reality? Independent models as apposed to the same basic view of the world around us. Obversely I'm thinking Quantum theory hear and I stress 'Theory' as apposed to fact. If Imagination is the preciser of Knowledge, Why dose human knowledge appear to be bound within such an ridged framework? After all, our Imaginations appear to be un restricted even in what we think comes after death. Haven read the later excellent and well thought out arguments, I'm still open to change my mind though.

John, Think of Imagination as the ability to construnct linear thoughts. Knowledge is the accumulation of those thoughts and processing them utilizing imagination. Most animals are not capable of linear thought, meaning they do not have the ability to see and think beyond their own nose. Children develop this ability around the age of 5 on average. A horse in a pen will stand against the fence near it's friends and be upset that it can't get to them, when in fact there may be a open gate on the other side of the pen that can be used to "go around". He can't reason this. He can't imagine that he can turn around, walk over there, go through that, make a right and turn again and find himself where he wants to be. A person can imagine it and then test it. By testing it, he obtains knowledge. This is the basis of making tools. A human can string more than one thought together and form a complex and abstract roadmap in their mind. This is imagination. Knowledge is knowing what you've explored in your imagination and discovered what is fact and what is not fact. Imagination is not knowledge. You can only acquire so much knowledge with a limited imagination. How's that for a load of shit?