What is snobbery then?

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What is snobbery then?

In the song lyrics thread, Missi said:

"For many of these snobs rhyming poetry is considered 'school yard' stuff and not worthy of serious consideration. That is patent rubbish, but I know there are some members here that think that way."

Alan then said:

"I agree - there is a lot of snobbery. People look down their noses at the likes of John Hegley, John Cooper Clark, Lemn Sissay and Benjamin Zephaniah."

I'm not against rhyming poetry - I write a lot of it myself - but I can easily imagine being called a snob on the basis of some of the stuff I don't like. I find it very hard to like, for instance, poetry that follows a strictly metred rhythm without stretching it or playing with it to some extent. I'm not much of a fan of John Cooper Clark or Benjamin Zephaniah, but then, there are plenty of more 'literary' poets I find worse.

Surely, snobbery isn't defined by what you don't like, though, but your attitude towards it. In which case, at what point does a fierce and confident distaste toward something equate to snobbery? Is it when you roll your eyes? I read some poetry recently by someone who had written an essay in the back of his book explaining why he thought metre and rhyme were so important, and how he only read older, classic poets and didn't think of much free verse as real poetry. His own poetry was purely AABBCCDD structured, and didn't even *scan* (ie. for all his emphasis on metre, his lines were of irregular metrical length). He'd also twisted sentences to the point of nonsense in order to get a cliched rhyme out of the last word. My attitude to that is "Give me strength!" So am I being snobbish? And why isn't he being snobbish, when he evidently dismissed poetry so much more readily than me?

Has it something to do with the implication of stupidity on the part of the masses? I know snobbery is often associated with advocates of 'high art' who often bullyishly push forward the view that their pet artists render everyone else's interests/tastes as fads (I've been told, for example, that supporters of the poet Geoffrey Hill are particularly obnoxious in putting him forward as a 'great poet' too clever for the rest of us to 'get'). But surely none of us deny that 'the masses', whatever part of ourselves and each other that constitutes, are responsible for the overlong shelf-life of some pretty incredible shite. So are we all snobs?

Enzo v2.0
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When someone is part of a group that they consider to be elite, for example: the very rich, the very well educated, etc, they look down on people that don't conform to the rules or customs of the group. I do think there's a distinction between intellectual and material snobbery, though. I'm a bit of a snob with literature. I get irritated when I see people reading books that are, in my opinion, crap (I'm not going down the road of giving examples). The reason is intellectual snobbery, for sure. Philosophers also exhibit it, as do artists and so on. Material snobbery is different, yet the same. Looking down on someone because they have a rubbish car is the same in that you consider yourself part of an elite, but is different because - for the most part, and without withing to get into a sociopolitical debate - the people you're looking down on simply don't have the access to the money required for that flash car. Well, that's what I think, anyway.
I don't really wish to expand my statement at this point, partly because it could get personal. I believe those that I was referring to but didn't name know who they are. They are among those that believe that they are the arbiters of what is good and what isn't. For what it's worth, Jon, you were not among those I had in mind, neither was Ben.

 

I guess we're all guilty of it to a greater or lesser degree. I recognise it in myself and hate it at the same time. We've all got standards of taste - the same as we've all got opinions on everything else - which have been influenced by our background, our education, the people we've associated with, the places we've been, etc. I still find myself bristling when I see someone pick up a particular daily newspaper or hear them rave on about a particular TV programme. Stupid, of course - I know that. Knee-jerkingly judgmental. But there it is. I don't make an issue of it, or let it put me off people. I mean, it's not as if I've really got anything to be snobbish about! I guess my resolute aversion to material things also comes out in an inverted form of snobbery: I look at people who are preoccupied with cars, fashion, gadgets, etc, and think - 'Get a life!. But then, I'm sure they're thinking the same about me. The worst snob I ever met was a guy I worked with a few years ago. He was well-educated - Masters in Lit - and was openly dismissive of anything even vaguely 'popular' in terms of writing. His favourite poet was Jeremy Prynne. Who? Well, I think he's only read in academic circles. He caught me reading a Stephen King novel one day and said 'I'd sooner eat my own shit than read something like that.' Hmm... subtle little put-down, I thought (got my own back later!) His views were similarly fixed on music. Only certain artists were worth listening to. He'd written 2 novels, both of which he'd discarded because 'they weren't as good as 'The Great Gatsby''. He'd given up writing poetry because 'I can't be Wallace Stevens'. It took me a while to suss out the source of his snobbery - or part of it, anyway. Deep-seated insecurity. The profession of an elitist attitude as some sort of compensating factor for his own lack of ability. Does that make sense? I wonder if snobbery generally has something to do with that.
Jack, I'm sure you've read Carey's 'The intellectuals and the masses'?
Foster
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I think snobbery is a form of expression - people use it to express their opinions. I most often find it in the form of a "putting down of everything that does not meet my standard", but it also exists in praise for those things that do - people who claim their favorite book to be anything by Joyce, to me, is snobbery (but it might not be to others). So it can go both ways. This is a good quote, and it works for things we do like, as well: "snobbery isn't defined by what you don't like, though, but your attitude towards it." I'm guilty of this, too. I think most of us are, in some way.
I think there is some snobbery in the poetry world based on the fact that poets work hard to reach the top in their field, only to get there and find that they're not making any money and no one's remotely interested in them, so snobbery's the most obvious thing to fall back on. I'm not sure if this quite the same as the for/against rhyme kind of thing. The people who believe that the likes of Geoffrey Hill and Jeremy Prynne are the only sorts of poets worth reading hate accessible non-rhyming poetry just as much as they hate rhyme. That said, they're perfectly entitled to make that choice on a personal basis. There are some questions about the level of public subsidy they get to continue to do so, though.

 

Firstly, “His own poetry was purely AABBCCDD structured, and didn't even *scan* (ie. for all his emphasis on metre, his lines were of irregular metrical length). He'd also twisted sentences to the point of nonsense in order to get a cliched rhyme out of the last word. My attitude to that is "Give me strength!" So am I being snobbish?” No you're not. It's just a badly written poem. I’d agree that it’s the attitude that counts. You don’t have to like everyone’s taste and you can judge writing to be of better quality than other writing. It's only if you look down on an actual person because of what they like, that you're being a snob. The worst snobs though, are those who only prefer X over Y because they think it marks them out as a more discerning person. It’s funny, I think often ‘bad taste’ comes from the same attitude. On the visual front, examples of ‘bad taste’ usually come about when someone tries to copy what they perceive as being ‘good taste’ but fail to pull it off. As Alan says, I think it comes down to insecurity. If people just generally decorate or wear what they genuinely like, it usually looks quite groovy – it may not be your kind of thing, but it doesn’t have you stifling guffaws. (The worst snob I’ve ever known was father-in-law's wife number 3. She visibly shuddered when I told her a friend was furnishing her flat from Ikea. She hadn’t seen the furniture, she didn't need to. She only ‘liked’ something if it was exclusive and expensive. It didn’t matter what it was, just as long as it fulfilled those criteria. She wouldn’t be seen dead buying a vase from BHS, but if you put the same thing in a Knightsbridge shop window for 30 times the price – she’d love it.) ~ www.fabulousmother.com
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