Self Publishing

I have now received my free author's copies from PA/PB. I can honestly say that they look great and I am very happy with the publishers so far. Now it's up to me to market my work!

I have had my book published via a POD publisher and to be honest you get what you pay for. POD is not perfect but what I found is that it gives you that 'FIRST STEP' into the publishing world. If you're sick of rejection letters from 'MAIN STREAM' publishers then POD is a way to go. POD is not vanity publishing as with that you only get 500 or more copies of your work for a price and that is it, it's then upto you to cart them around to shops etc. POD publishers normally go through the likes of Amazon, Whsmith etc, online services. For bookshops you normally have to push your work yourself. This is hard work as POD books cost more than normal published books and bookstores are reluctant to take them on. Still like I said earlier its a good way to get noticed. Many POD publishers are very tight on the work they take. They do have quality checks and if the work is really bad, grammer and the like or the story just doesn't make sense then they will tell you to rewrite it or reject it, so good works can be found in POD format. Also it helps if you only want to write one or two books as you're not stuck with trying to write more books for a more traditional publisher. Hope this helps. Si

Sounds like they kept their side of the bargain - good luck with your book. I recently self-published and it's worth doing, even if just to up your profile a bit. You never know, you may have a hit in the making! www.binnaclepress.com will list your book details for free. Also, http://tregolwyn.tripod.com/ review small press and self-published books. Hope this is of some help (I can't do proper links!)

I have had two books published through Publish America. They have responded quickly and efficiently, selling many copies of both of my books and I'm now working on a third. I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but there are people at Publish America who honestly care about your work and of course want it to be sold. They put a lot of time, money and effort into your dream and make it a reality, they don't accept submissions that they feel will not sell. Just from a business standpoint it would be ridiculous to do so. I'm sorry that most of are not taking advantage of publishers like Publish America.

"They put a lot of time, money and effort into your dream and make it a reality, they don't accept submissions that they feel will not sell. Just from a business standpoint it would be ridiculous to do so." Sorry Julie, if you investigate Publish America's business model in slightly more detail you'll find that this simply isn't true. The set-up up costs for digital books are very low (approximately £80-£100) and the books only get printed if someone actually buys one. Publish America's input in terms of editorial services and marketing is, I would politely suggest, also not hugely valuable in financial terms. At a rough estimate, which I'd be happy to expand on if it would be helpful, I'd say that they can make a profit on books which sell a lot less than 50 copies, which, for me, counts as 'not selling'. They're well capable of making money on books by people who are awful at writing but have lots of friends and relatives who can afford to spend £10-£15 on buying a copy of their book. It's fair to say that the risk levels are extremely low. I'm not an opponent of Publish America or other companies like them, they provide a mutually beneficial self-publishing service but I do worry that writers may be mislead or mislead themselves into thinking that their dreams of literary success are likely to come true through this kind of publication.

I've just been offered a contract by PublishBritannica. Initially I was pleased but am now having grave doubts!I haven't signed yet - what would people recommend? Help please!

See above. They're not going to actively screw you but they won't do much for your credibility either. Given the choice, I'd self-publish.

Some really useful stuff here, thanks to all.

Hello, I have a non-fictional, true story, book about retail management. While my main goal is to write fictional books and screenplays, this book was something I felt that I needed to write. Would using PublishAmerica and have my name associated with them for this initial book hinder my successes of my fictional books if I try to get published by another company?

I not clear how things are done in the US but if it's anything like over here, any bookshop will sell any book with an ISBN number (which anyone can get) if they get an order for it from a customer. When I used to produce small self-published poetry pamphlets in my bedroom, I used to get a few orders from shops. What is highly unlikely is that any bookshop would buy copies of a publication from a POD publisher like Publish America to put on the shelves on the off-chance that someone who didn't know the author personally would choose to buy it. As they explain, fairly and honestly if you study their website in detail, PublishAmerica are not publishers in the traditional sense. Traditionally bookshops take books by unknown writers from established publishers on the grounds that the publisher's reputation is a guarantee of quality. PublishAmerica's reputation is not a guarantee of quality or, in my experience, even a guarantee that a book will be free of basic grammatical errors. There are upsides to the service that PublishAmerica and similar companies offer. It is effectively a form of free self-publishing which, if you go into it with your eyes open, is not necessarily a bad deal. But if you want publication in order to be seen as a credible writer and/or if you want your book prominently displayed in Borders, they're not the answer.

Since I wrote the above posts I have become VERY disillusioned with PublishAmerica. If you want to know why read this: The PublishAmerica Saga

Sorry, for some reason the link doesn't work. Let me try again: The PublishAmerica Saga

Fascinating although not surprising. I think you were making good points but from their point of view, their business is unlikely to be profitable if they give any significant attention to individual. As I've said before, these people aren't really publishers.

I am doubtful if they are really people!

I done a self publishing project last year and found by not much work you could gaurentee to shift about 1000 copies of a self published book no matter what the content was like. This came in the from of distrubuting to independant book shops and libararies around the world. Libraries pay some sort of fee and most inde book shops will come to some sort of deal and of course then you can get creative and do some self promoting publicity stunt.

Try Instant Publishers at www.instantpublisher.com Ronnie Bacon

has anyone else tried instantpublisher.com ?

It seems to me that the main problem with a lot of self-publishing options is not the fact that it's seen as somehow less credible than a publishing deal with a traditional company (although the fact that any old tripe can get into print using this method doesn't usually help) it's more a case of self-published stuff having a high unit cost. Much of the self-published stuff comes in at around the 12 quid per copy mark. That's a lot to spend on an unknown author when the potential buyer will essentially be taking a gamble in buying their book, particularly in view of the previously stated writing quality issue. I have noticed that text books are more successful than novels in this area, probably because one generally expects to pay 15 - 20 quid on a decent text book, whereas your standard 'buy it at the airport' novel is more likely to be seven quid or so. Having said all that, I am actually considering self-publishing the book I am working on at the moment (which is a work of fiction), simply because I have the advantage of a great deal of marketing and advertising experience.Which means I should be able to get copies of it onto the right desks with a chance of it being reviewed, and posibly picked up for a more workable means of production (see, there are some advantages to writing for a daily newspaper, hey I've just realised, I am living the song Paperback Writer!). Nevertheless, it's still going to hit me in the wallet quite a bit in the initial stages. I suppose this is an incentive to make me really push for sales though. If you're a capable writer, you do have the advantage of being likely to stand out among the crowd of self published books, since there is such a lot of vanity crap around, so in that sense, with a decent marketing strategy it could be seen as plus. I guess the difference between vanity and belief in your writing ability is sometimes in the eye of the beholder though!

Hello there, I've just read your post and thought I would let you know what I've done. I think there's a difference between vanity publishing and DIY. I've just published my husband's book (Coq & Bull) - myself. I edited it, did the design and cover and had it printed by Antony Rowe in England. Now I am organising the distribution of it in the UK. The actual cost of printing was 20% of the cover price - but I didn't have to pay designers or anything. Then, by distributing it myself I am saving yet more money. Finally, by trying to sell direct to people, I am saving the 40% discount demanded by bookshops. I therefore can tell you this from my own experience: There's no money in book publishing unless you are prepared to take on the jobs of the editor, marketing director, PR agent, designer, distributer, website creator yourself - but it is rewarding and potentially earns you a MODEST living. Big publishers like Harper Collins only make a fortune because of the massive turnover they have, and because they only print books 'written' by celebrities. Good luck, Scarlet coqndbull.com

Hello there, I've just read your post and thought I would let you know what I've done. I think there's a difference between vanity publishing and DIY. I've just published my husband's book (Coq & Bull) - myself. I edited it, did the design and cover and had it printed by Antony Rowe in England. Now I am organising the distribution of it in the UK. The actual cost of printing was 20% of the cover price - but I didn't have to pay designers or anything. Then, by distributing it myself I am saving yet more money. Finally, by trying to sell direct to people, I am saving the 40% discount demanded by bookshops. I therefore can tell you this from my own experience: There's no money in book publishing unless you are prepared to take on the jobs of the editor, marketing director, PR agent, designer, distributer, website creator yourself - but it is rewarding and potentially earns you a MODEST living. Big publishers like Harper Collins only make a fortune because of the massive turnover they have, and because they only print books 'written' by celebrities. Good luck, Scarlet coqandbull.com

>>There's no money in book publishing unless you are prepared to take on >>the jobs of the editor, marketing director, PR agent, designer, distributer, >>website creator yourself - but it is rewarding and potentially earns you a >>MODEST living. Scarlet, You said it! The successful author in this day and age (and perhaps in prior ages as well) has to be an entrepreneur. I serve as marketing director for Lulu.com (www.Lulu.com ), which is not a publisher but a technology company providing a tool that allows people to act as their own publishers (a true DIY route for authors). I can attest that the only really successful authors using Lulu.com to publish their work (and by 'success' I mean in financial terms) do a tremendous amount of work on their own. In addition to the difficult job of writing, they take responsibility for editing and proofreading and, in some cases, formatting their own books. In a couple of cases these authors have their own successful web sites which they have used to develop markets for their content. In other cases, the authors have bulk-ordered copies of their books and then sold them on their own from offices and tables at events. In most cases there is not much money in being your own publisher any more than there is much money in trying to get someone else to publish you. But on the other hand, writing is its own reward for many people, as is sharing their work with the world. Sometimes publishing a book offers a useful adjunct to an existing business. At any rate, the flow of books into the world is unlikely to dry up anytime soon. In the meantime, successful authors are the ones who fight for readers' attention. Regards, Stephen Fraser sfraser @ lulu.com www.Lulu.com

We at PABD can only echo what Stephen has said above. You'll only sell copies of your book if you're prepared to do promotional work yourself. One thing to keep in mind that even with a traditional publishing deal, where you'll earn a lot less per copy sold than you do when publishing with lulu.com our ourselves, you will have to do a lot of the promotional work yourself. We're getting more and more requests from mid-list writers who are interested in publishing with us because they are unhappy about the amount of publicity work they have to do themselves without getting anything in return as far as royalties are concerned.

Vanity publishing or self publishing? Read quite a few of the messages on this site and I think too many authors are of the impression that self publishing and vanity publishing are one and the same. They definitley are not. Let's take it for granted that being taken on by one of the big publishers is remote for most of us so what are your options? I run a poetry magazine for the fun of it, and over the years it has become well established. The fact that I also am a graphic designer working from home means that I print it myself and, more by accident than design, I ended up printing some booklets for self publishing poets under my Poetry Monthly Press imprint (originally obtained for my own books). I charge what I belive is a fair fee for what I do, but in no way am I a 'vanity publisher'. The small amount of money I make from self publishing poets goes straight back into my magazine, Poetry Monthly. Many poets (and a couple of prose writers I know) have had to resort to self publishing when interest from the big boys is not forthcoming for a particular project, and after eight years I can say that I have printed work for a few poets who have had previous collections published by well known poetry publishers such as Bloodaxe, Headland, etc. Sales of poetry books are a problem for the small publisher since the have no inroad into the commercial and expensive distribution set ups. Most sales are made by the authors themselves at readings and festivals and, if your a big enough name, book signings. Vanity publishing is a 'rip off' - one poor chap came to me after being taken for £3,000 for 500 books which he had to flog himself after the company had got his money. One should never go to a publisher advertising 'for poetry or novels' in any of the newspapers. I am not touting for business or trying to gain subscribers for my magazine. I am simply trying to put the record straight for those who have doubts and uncertainties. Regards and the best of publishing luck to you all. Martin Holroyd. [%sig%]

Excellent post, Martin. Sadly, many people don't seem to know the difference between self-publishing, POD, vanity or conventional publishing. Hopefully your post helped. Good luck with the mag.

I'm writing an article on this very subject right now, Andrea. I'll let you know where you can read it when I'm finished. John, you started this thread just about a year ago. I've recently self-published my first book, Cab Driver. You can read the first chapter for free by visiting: http://store.pabd.com/kwiggins

Thanks Karl, look forward to reading it. And that's: (makes it easier, y'know)

The problem with the likes of Publish America/Brittanica is: "PublishBritannica is also taking full advantage of modern book distribution channels. All of our titles are available through all of the U.K.'s major bookstores, many independent bookstores, and through online vendors at home and abroad." This is grossly misleading. All titles with an ISBN are available through all book stores which order using any vaguely recognised ordering system (that's well over 98% of them). Anyone who wants one can get an ISBN by approach the ISBN agency directly. The problem is that the fact that books are technically available to bookshops has no connection whatsoever with the possibility of bookshops actually ordering them. I think the rise of reputable publishing services using POD technology (such as Publish and Be Damned and several others) is great. It makes publishing a far more democratic business. What I dislike is companies misleading writers into having unrealistic expectations. "Taking full advantage of the latest printing technology before anybody else did, the company can afford to sell all copies of a book on a non-returnable basis. Consequently, no book is ever wasted now that each copy can be printed in accordance with public demand. This is a ridiculous inversion of the real issue. ALL publishers can afford to sell books on a non-returnable basis. It's far cheaper and far less risky than sale or return. The problem is that few, if any, bookshops will choose to buy books on a non-returnable basis unless the know they can definitely sell them.

These threads never cease to amuse me. I am completely satisfied with PA - my books with them are selling well. :)

The ultimate question concerning vanity publishing is: "How good is your work?" There are, and always will be, a lot of people who think they are far better writers than they really are. And their will always be vanity publishing companies to take advantage of them. But over-thinking the issue is silly. If your work deserves preservation for posterity, publish it and don't worry about what it costs you. If not, don't. Personally, I would love to launch vanity publishing. I would promote my work in a serious way. I've got all kinds of ideas. But I can't afford the vanity publishing right now. Someday when I have money, I'll do it. The reason why I do it is that I'm sure that some of my work has huge literary merit and needs to be preserved for posterity. I think I've gotten it out enought though that it won't be forgotten. You know, true genius takes a while to be recognized. Nietzche's work was only through published through vanity published and he transformed Western thought. Peace out.

My book has just been published by PublishBritannica/PublishAmerica (effectively one company) and is now available online although it will be a while before it is accessible to bookstores. After signing the contract I was dismayed to discover the negative publicity about them. Now, however, I am very sanguine about things. I had tried for some time to find a "proper" publisher. It is extremely difficult, not to mention expensive and time-consuming, to track down a company that is open to something that does not slot neatly into an existing genre. PB/PA gives you a chance. No, PB/PA does not do any significant editing, but they do make this clear on their website. They will also not do much marketing of your work. However, if you are reasonably competent at editing your own stuff, or know someone who can help you, _AND_ you are prepared to put a lot of work into marketing and promotion, then they are worth considering, as they certainly do not charge you anything. Yes, the cover price is steep, but I believe that if you really believe in your work and can sell several hundred copies then they will publish it more conventionally under another imprint. Alternatively (and this has happened) it's possible for another publisher to buy up the rights to the book. As far as marketing goes, it helps if you can get someone well known and respected to give you a quote for the cover. I was absolutely delighted when ABCtale's Tony Cook gave me a quote. I feel this will, to a large extent, cancel any negative associations with the publisher. We'll see what happens, but at the moment I am feeling very positive and don't regret going with PB/PA. By the way, I very much like their cover designs! If you want to learn more about my book and follow its progress go to the website below. Good luck, everyone! R. Eric Swanepoel Saving the World and Being Happy (The Computer Ager)

ABCtales' Tony Cook - misplaced apostrophe above!

The oldest of the POD (Print On Demand) publishers is the American company iUniverse, who charge about $200, which is a bit less than £200. This gets you a standard paperback book with ISBN number and cover designed by them (or by you if you prefer) which remains permanently "in print" and is available through Amazon and all the usual on-line outlets. The royalties are high and most people consider that the product looks and feels good. What it doesn't buy you is marketing or promotion or distribution into conventional bookshops, that you have to do yourself, possibly buying a few copies to send out for review etc. I don't know where you got the "one copy" idea, the company prints as many copies as people want to buy, but it can print single copies just as cheaply as large runs. That's what POD technology offers. At one point there was a big disadvantage in doing a book through iUniverse or any of the American POD publishers if you lived in England, because copies had to be printed in the 'States and you had to pay shiping costs to get them to England. This is no longer the case, POD books are now printed locally (Milton Keynes) by an outfit called Lightning Source, which all the POD publishers seem to use for the actual printing. So there is no reason NOT to use POD publishers except the possible stigma of having published it yourself and the lack of the marketing support you would get from a traditional publisher. One advantage of using an American publisher is that they only get the publication rights for the USA and Canada, you can publish it separately in the UK if you can interest a mainstream publisher, which you might be able to do if sales figures were encouraging. There's nothing like backing a horse with a proven track record.

You could also try PublishAmerica/PublishBritannica (Publish Britannica and Bluechrome Publishing ( Bluechome Publishing), neither of whom charge their authors. Bluechrome, however, are more interested in novellas/experimental/poetry, but you can always email and ask.

In what sense do these companies not charge their authors? Do you have to agree to buy copies of the books?

No, David, you don't :-)

People seem to be almost irrationally suspicious of small publishing houses who use POD technology to print their books. The point about POD is that you can print small numbers of copies economically, hence you can take a chance on a book that may not sell mega-thousands, and that's what publishers like PublishAmerica and Bluechrome are doing. They are selecting who they will and won't publish like any other publisher, but because they aren't planning an initial letterpress print run of 500 or 1000 they can be a little bit more daring. If you or I were in the publishing business and we knew that taking on a new author represented an investment of several thousand pounds that we might never get back we would probably be pretty cautious about who we signed up as well. POD technology lowers the risk, but they still don't deliberately publish no-hopers. It's the economic risk factor that POD lessens, hence there is room for more small presses taking a (modest) chance with unknown but promising writers.

I'm not irrationally suspicious of POD publishers. My suspicion is highly rational. I've read several POD publications which seem to have been published completely unedited. In some cases, they've had the potential to be good books but due to the lax publishing standards they're riddled with elementary grammatical errors and in desperate need of basic editorial tightening. I smell a rat behind publishers such as Publish America because they claim, from their websites at least, to exist in the interest of writers rather than readers. This is not how real publishing works. It's like having a cake shop where allowing wannabe bakers to invent recipes and get them cooked is more important than selling cakes to customers. I understand why POD publishing might work for books which can only ever hope to appeal to a niche market but I'm highly dubious about their motives for publishing other work.