I shouldn't really go into unknown territory here because I've not read Kerouac. but I have heard he is much over-rated and it just happens to be hip to read him at the moment. thus the chattering classes have to at the very least know a title of Kerouac's or be banished to the kitchen while the other dinner guests laugh at you over brandies.
I actually like Jack Kerouac a lot. I know a lot of people I've talked to don't particularly like his books. But I have got a lot out of them. He is one of my inspirations, definately a strong influence on my own style. I think hes one of those writers, were you either love him or hate him. His prose is very poetic, and he was deeply committed to writing, so I disagree with Justin Thyme saying he wasn't a real writer and saying his literature wasn't great literature. Besides what is a real writer anyway? Writing is as natural to human beings as breathing. Everybody is a writer, and every writer is different because there are no two human beings who are the same on the earth. Some of us choose to take it up as a craft. So we go through an apprenticeship, our tools being words, our skill being how we put those words together. Like any craft thats worth knowing, this takes time. My apprenticeship is filling up my two abctales sets. Anyway Jack was very passionate about writing. He used to write pages of writing in a day then on a night burn them all over a candle flame, he did this because it was a spiritual thing. Some of the novels he wrote, he carried around with him in a rucksack as he hitch-hiked around America. Other novels he wrote he used to psyche himself up, do exercises and strengthen his will so that he could sit down and write them. And he would write them in one sitting. 'On the Road' was written in something like three and a half weeks. But the thing that was special about 'On the Road' was it was the one book were he finally found his own style. Before his writing had been heavily influenced by the other writers he read like Thomas Wolfe. Through much experimentation with writing he broke free from his earlier influences and found his own way of writing. Spontaneous prose, which was inspired by Neil Cassidy's letters (funny enough he was spontaneously inspired). Though a lot of readers were shielded from some of Kerouacs stylistic innovations in ' On the Road' by the orthodox viking editing job done on the book.
n'Did you know he could type as fast as he could talk? And its not just any type-writer he used, but those old 1950's typewriters with the big heavy keys. To be able to write books like that spontaneously shows he was like someone possessed with supernatural energy that is truly inspiring for any writer, whether you read his books or not. So don't say he wasn't a real writer, he lived and breathed writing. He was a verbal sorcerer.
The thing about his books though is you have to read them slow. You will get a lot more out of them if you read them slowly. Theres a lot to take in. 'On the road' isn't my personal favourite though. My favourite so far has to be ' The Dharma Bums.' and I have just started reading 'Desolation Angels.' which is a follow up from Dharma Bums. If your new to Kerouac I would suggest reading ' The Dharma Bums' its not a big novel and is a good introduction to his work.
Oh and ' The Naked Lunch' by William Burroughs
and 'Howl' by Allen Ginsberg. (The two works that brought these men to public attention.) The titles to these two pieces of work were coined by Kerouac.
Fame was what destroyed him though, he couldn't handle it. It just made his alcoholism worse, its a shame. It would have suited him better had he not being in the public eye at all, and wrote his books got them published but remained anonymous. Who knows how much further his writing could have gone if he had lived longer.
sorry to write such a long post. I have to stick up for Kerouac though, can't stand it when people put him down. He's so mis-understood, he's one of my mentors, I owe him a lot. This may sound crazy, but sometimes it feels like his spirit is close by and he is helping me with my writing. Teaching me what he knows, and I feel it is my duty in a way to carry on from where he left, as his apprentice.( Sounds crazy I know, but I don't care.)
Please don't anyone take any offence, if you even bothered to read this far. I wrote this spontaneously so I haven't bothered to check what I wrote. Just I look up to Jack Kerouac a lot and hate it when people say he wasn't a real writer and that his litereature wasn't great literature.
If you don't like him thats fair enough, and saying you didn't enjoy his book is fine too. Andrew_pack's comments were fair comments. I don't have a problem with those.
But to the others saying stuff like he's over-rated and not a real writer and his literature is not great, is wrong, and I will defend him to the hilt.
shalome
Richi
I have read kerouac and I also have a spoken word CD which includes him reading some of his own stuff.
I would agreee that he is over-rated. He is more of a cultural phenomenon of post-WW2 America than a real writer. It was the idea of kerouac and Neil Cassidy and going on the road that people found so fascinating. It has to do with trying to discover what it means to be a man in post-war America, a discussion which remains unresolved to this day. So don't feel bad about not having read him. It worth reading On The Road just to be educated, but it's not great literature.
On the other hand, I just read simpson's Bourbon. Now, there is a really well written story. Absolutely excellent.
Did see a program Funky where they played a tape of Kerouac reading On the Road aloud and it sounded utterly amazing. Descriptions of places and people that were wonderfully alive and resonant. I didn't get any of that when I read the book myself.
This may be because readers of fiction tend to read for plot first and style second - this may just be me. One of my favourite books is The Waves, in which the plot is barely there at all, characters die and form relationships in throwaway sentences, and I know that many people absolutely hate it. Equally, I know many people can't stand Clockwork Orange and I adore it.
Maybe I was expecting the destination to be important in On the Road, whereas what Kerouac was writing was the Journey.
Yeah I see where your coming from... yeah the journey is a lot to do with the way Kerouac writes. His prose is like jazz and deeply sentimental at the same time. In his later books after 'On the road' he talks a lot about Buddhism in a poetic way, which I really enjoyed; and his honesty in his writing is really powerfull.
I'am kind of a wierd mix, I love stories with a good plot. I love Stephen Kings books, and Clive Barker is top man. The Sandman comics by Neil Gaiman are really good too, and loads of other writers like Alex Garland and S.P. Somtow.
But I also love to read things that are written in unique styles of prose. I love to see the many different ways words can be put together to describe things.
I watched ' Clockwork Orange' directed by Stanley Kubrick, a few weeks ago and really liked it. My friend brought over the book for me to have a look at. I read the first few pages and was stunned I thought it was really good. Very original style of prose, all written in slang set slightly in the future. I think 'Clockwork Orange' is gonna be the next book I read after 'Desolation Angels.'
Funky, I've finally come to the conclusion that you were born after your time...
You're a 60s man at heart.
Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg et al were the inspiration for a whole generation.
Re Clockwork Orange - hated the movie, loved the book. Although Earthly Powers was, in my opinion, far better. Brilliant! Try that one first, Funk.
And let me know what you think...
Well, now in one thread we've mentioned two of my favorite authors. I also have a lot of spoken word stuff from Burroughs, and just finished reading yet another biography. I heard Burroughs give a reading at the West Side YMCA (NYC) back in the early eighties. He was hilarious. It's hard to imagine him being funny just from reading his stuff in print, but when read aloud much of it is very funny.
Just a personal opinion, but here goes :-
Carver was better than Bukowski - it takes more skill to find the dignity in squalor than to just roll around in it.
Bukowski is brilliant in small doses, but after a while I find it a bit repetitive - hero meets girl, has sex, gets drunk, relationship breaks down, hero meets new girl...
Must have just injected and was feeling mellow. You gotta love Keroac, Ginsberg, let me think, ...
I used to like John Irving, very original refreshing, dark..
Justin, John Irving?
I did not intend to say that Jack was not a real writer, but rather that his public personna and the cultural phenomenon of it was more important. The first time I read On The Road I thought it was great. Then maybe 15 years later I started to read it again, and it was boring to me. I never read his subsequent stuff, but like I said, I have the spoken word CD and it is wonderful. I've seen many of his television appearances and they were impressive, even the one on William Buckley's Firing Line in 1968 or 1969, when he was completely drunk and only a few months away from death. I attended a reading by Ginsberg in college in 1969 which was great. Also impressive was Timothy Leary in the same year.
In my case, Burroughs is a mentor. I have a story about how his writing changed my life in a dramatic way, but I'll save that for later. It deserves to be written up properly.
I'd love to see that story about Burroughs Justyn when you've written it.
Haven't read any Timothy leary yet. But evryone tells me he's good. I bet attending a reading by Ginsberg was out of this world. I managed to download a full reading of 'Howl' which lasts 21 minutes, its really good. Would love to have attended one of Ginsbergs readings man.
Will definately have a look at 'Earthly Powers' Andrea.
Don't think I was born after my time... though. I don't really fit in society I have to confess, cause money just aint my thing. I hate the way it causes so many problems in the world. But I accept it cause I need it to survive at the moment, otherwise life would be tough. I suppose I don't really have much choice about that one, kind of forced on you to be a consumer whether you like it or not, cause theres so many darn people everywhere and there isn't many wild places left to go. And anyway it gets pretty lonely up in the hills on your own, I need people man. One day though I will hit the road and go travel Europe on a push bike or something. Need to stay still for a few years first. My dog Ben hes 12 years old, don't think travelling would be fair on him, bless him. I'am happy to stay still for a while though, let him live out the rest of his years in comfort. Got plenty to do at the moment, I'am not someone who gets bored, I can always amuse myself in some shape or form.
I do believe I must have chosen to come in this time for a reason, When you think about it theres a lot going on in the world at the moment, we live in interesting times. A very mixed multi-culture which I personally love. Lots of folk are getting into spiritual things and theres are cracking clubscene, I love dance culture man. As well as some great theatre and movies and the internet and music. I must confess though, I would have loved to have experienced the 60's . Would be great to get a time machine and meet some of the people back then with their zany ideas. And I would have loved to have tried out some of the acid in the 60's I've heard it was the business.
I must confess: I've never read either of them.
Bukowski is repetitive, that's for sure. My only comment would be that he should be read in small doses. I don't think it was ever intended to read 300 pages of his poems all in one sitting, though I have done that.
I personally find Bukowski and Burroughs uplifting. I'm sure that says a lot more about me than about them, but that's one major reason I find both of them appealing.
Justin, It's great when a writer has that affect. If you like that kind of left side honesty, you'll love Irving. There is a weird Integrity about his writing. I so don't agree where he's coming from but I love the child like quality of some of his characters. He is the master of the tragic event , farcical event yet written with wit, humour pathos and originality. That's John Irving.
Andrew is the expert on Carver
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