The Limitations of Learning

Emma2004: And not the good Doctor, too?

Yan2: I’m struck by the number of times that threads start off reasonably enough, with opinions expressed and argued in a civilised manner, only to gradually degenerate into varying degrees of personal insult. In my very humble opinion, when it gets to that level, the argument is already lost. I guess there’s a very good reason for this behaviour: the factor of distance. You’ve got a space to say exactly what you want to say, without the interruptions that would normally go with either face-to-face or telephone contact – AND you don’t carry the associated risk of a receiving a punch in the mouth or a kick in the nuts. Sometimes I read these threads and think “For the sake of fuck, these are intelligent, educated people – people who purport to be writers, no less.” Communicators, in other words. And this is how they communicate. Constant misunderstanding or misinterpretation of points - or inability to deliver those points clearly and cogently, without resorting to insult. I sometimes see more civilised communication going on between the special needs adults I work with, most of whom can’t write and a large majority of whom can’t speak properly. And before anyone comes up with the old thing of “This is an adult forum, so you should expect…” etc. Well, bollocks to a factor of a hundred. ‘Adult’ sometimes don’t come anywhere near it. As if hammering that opinion home and getting the final word in is so goddamn important. I mean, there are reputations at stake here! Fragile egos to support! I can almost sense the contempt and insults whizzing their way along the phone lines towards me as I sign off.

Jude: Yeah, I’d agree with the 6th form element. And I don’t think that a lot of the debates have much to do with true wisdom either. I do, though, find it rewarding sometimes to step aside from a debate and see how it works through, and to try to pick out the wisdom or ‘truth’ there – and that does come up quite a bit. There are a lot of people using these forums (including yourself) whose opinions I respect, and I’m not ashamed to admit that I’ve even modified some of my own opinions in the light of stuff I’ve read here. That’s what debate should be about – in my view, anyway. Some might think it's a sign of intellectual failing on my part, or lack of confidence. Possibly right on both points - though I prefer to think of it as just trying to keep an open mind. As for the arguments not being about one-upmanship or proving the correctness of opinions, well… I wouldn’t be so sure. Maybe I just read some of the wrong threads. Galfreda: Completely agree with you – though I don’t see the Buddhist position as pessimistic necessarily. It’s just stating how learning CAN have that tendency for us to believe that we are right. Clearly it does in very many people. I also feel comforted by the idea of the plurality of truth. I find it an essential idea to live by. I think I can just about grasp the gist of the Foucault quote. It seems to say roughly the same thing, just in a slightly harder way! Peps: “What is more important than knowledge itself is the mean’s by which it is communicated.” Clarity as much as cogency, in other words. To ‘open-mindedness, tolerance, patience’ I’d also add ‘respect’ – though the tone some people here set doesn’t exactly encourage respect, true. Responding with abuse and insult, though, doesn’t even the balance. It just takes us back to the playground – and several forms below 6th.

Thanks, Yan2. None taken, Sniper.

You're right, Jude. And I'm wrong. Or maybe we're both wrong. Or right... "...perhaps a little bit of bigging up one's cleverness" or, like me, just bullshitting a lot!

That's debatable.

I mostly stay out of debates because I'm never entirely convinced either that I know what I mean, or that I believe it. I've never had a great deal of faith in my own convictions - which probably means they're not convictions in the first place!

Thanks for that vote of confidence, folks. I feel better about myself already! That's the essence of that quote: “One characteristic of the TRULY wise man is that he can recognise the wisdom in others and is more concerned in discovering the truth of any situation than in simply defending his own opinion.” Though I tend to think that it's less about my being wise, and more about the fact that I have an inferiority complex of Himalayan proportions!

I'll take your word for it, Peps. I certainly wouldn't take my word for it.