I need help please.

Letter from publisher. Hi Sue, Cheque and book received. On the book I have to say at first glance that I just don't agree with the few changes I've seen. A glaring example is the suggested use of a lower case letter after a closing quote with a question mark. It's just wrong. A lot of the changing of commas for full stops is wrong. Commas are pauses, full stops are natural breaks. I'm not about to say there isn't a mistake in the book but there certainly are not the number marked. For me to go through and argue the point on every one, much less change them all is going to take far too long. I'm sorry, I don't think it's on Sue. I've been doing this job for years and I know what I'm about. We are nearer some marketing, yes, but if you are expecting us to change all this stuff as well (and most of what I've seen is wrong) before a re-run, we are a million miles away. And I have to ask how I was supposed to know the dog was two, not eight as you had written? Regards Graham

Hiya Sooz......nice to see ya back! And I for one think that the first instance of each sentence is correct. Let's face it if yer publisher could write he would! He only publishes OTHERS work. Good Luck girl. :)

Liana's response is correct, unless there is some drastic difference in punctuation rules between American and British English. Your publisher wrote: A glaring example is the suggested use of a lower case letter after a closing quote with a question mark. It's just wrong. He's wrong. On the other hand, it's probably best just to pat yourself on the back and forget it.

I have to add to this: GOD, is he EVER wrong!

Er... Eric?

I read your book, Sooz, and those were almost distracting! But after 10 or so pages of it, I imagine, I got used to it. I thought you were doing it (or in this case, your publisher) just to be stylistically eccentric ... like you were protesting against your high school English teacher or something. My high school Journalism teacher, on the other hand, would probably enjoy a heated debate with that publisher. The strongest argurment being that "Said Ellie." isn't a complete sentence.

Unfortunatey Sooz, I think he is an arrogant liar who had already decided what he was going to do regarding the reprints. He's still wrong, and you are right.

Hi Sooz I did some research and also asked a linguist friend. This is something pasted from a 'punctuation website': Note that these rules apply to spoken sentences that would normally end in a period when written by themselves; the period becomes a comma if the sentence continues after the quote. However, if the quoted sentence ends in a question mark or exclamation point, and the sentence continues after the quote, the question mark or exclamation point does not change to a comma, the first letter of the first word after the quote is still lower case, and the overall sentence still ends in a period: "Where did they go?" she asked. "Unbelievable!" shouted the announcer. If you want to show a character thinking words to himself, without actually speaking them aloud, follow the same punctuation and capitalization rules but eliminate the quotation marks: Jeff thought, This is going to be a long day. This is going to be a long day, he thought. Where did they go? she wondered. Be careful to use correct punctuation, capitalization and spacing when writing dialogue, and to put everything in its correct order and position. Sometimes a word processing program might make an extra mistake for you; if you were to type: "Good morning." said Steve. Word would automatically capitalize said and you'd end up with two errors: "Good morning." Said Steve. Remember also that proper nouns always begin with a capital letter, regardless of their location in a sentence or quotation.

ps I have also picked up several books at random and found that after every question mark in the dialogue, the sentence begins with a lower case letter (except with a name of course).

The first line in each pair is correct.

well bugger me, I always thought it was upper case after a question mark too. Damn it, twelve chapters to bloody sift through now and each is laden with spoken questions.

Thanks everyone. My friend Toby and my first publisher told me the correct way to do it when I first came to edit Devil and was confused. I followed that, but the publisher turned them all back again and that's by no means the only problem. I edited and edited. My other publisher says that ALL family titles should be in lower case regardless (unless of course at the begining of the sentence) I read in my grammar books that if you are reffering to someone it is lower case. I'd like you to know that my great grandad's brother is a hippopotamus. but if you are talkingTO someone it is upper case. "Where are you Nanna?" asked Vicki. My publisher said that for the sake of consistency ALL titles should be lower case. And don't even get me started on passed and past, that one still gets me sometimes, but I *think* I've got it busted. If you can do it it's passed, unless it's in the past tense and then it's still past. Thanks again everyone. Tony you answered within about five mnutes and I knew straight after reading your reply that it is the correct way. I respect you very much. Big thanks all.

Excuse me Yes, move along please. Could you please take this dull discussion along to one of the other three boring forums where it belongs please. No discussing punctuation in the Genial Diss. Everybody here knows everything there is to know about that. That is all.

Shut up Stuart.

Studley i don't know everything about punctuation and grammar in fact very little so i found this thread very interesting, there are plenty of other threads for you to play on if you're not interested in this one.

I don't like the tone you've been using towards me since yesterday Flasher. You need to ease up out of my face before something bad happens to you.

For my part, I think the top one in each example was right. Having been educated in the progressive early eighties, we learned about verbs and adverbs and nouns and pronouns, but not how to use commas and semi-colons (because that would have been elitist and judgmental - grammar equals grammar school, you see?) What I did when I began writing was to pick up books by Graham Greene and borrow exactly the punctuation he used for direct speech. May I suggest a trip to the photocopier and then post your publisher some well-known and respected authors who punctuate just the way you have.

I had a heated discussion once with the publishing dept where I used to work. They were refusing to caption a photo for our external relations brochure as "The President and ...." and insisted it should be "The president...". They claimed that all job titles were now lower case in modern usage and that the president was a mere job title. As the said VIP President was to receive a copy of the publication I insisted it went in as "The President..." for fear of offending unmodern traditional man. Similarly I think it should be The Queen rather than The queen etc. Am I as right as Sooz?

Question marks and exclamation marks aren't the same as full stops: they do service for full stops at the end of sentences, but they are - as the Fowler brothers pointed out - more rightly thought of as tones. Speech is not the only occasion that a question mark can appear in a sentence without being followed by a capital. I quote the following examples from the Chicago Manual of Style: How can the two women be reconciled? was the question on everybody's mind. What for? he wondered. * Also, your publisher's statement that "commas are pauses" is grammatically illiterate, in my view. d.beswetherick.

Top one is correct in both cases, I believe. I hope that's the answer you want! All the best.

"I hope you're well,"said Ellie "Are you well?" asked Ellie. If its a comma, then it must be continued in lower case, if a full stop, or period, then upper case. Always start the message inside quotations, with a capital. (I think - someone tell me it's right!) Tell Mr Publisher to pull his bloody finger out. He sounds like a mare to me, from what you wrote in your diary. xxx

I'd say that the top two are right too. Good luck with that mate! Really, good luck and good for you!

But a question mark is classed as a period, so shouldn't it be: "Are you well?" Asked Ellie. Should def have uppercase 'A' anyway. If in doubt, turn it around thus: "Are you well?" Ellie asked. (can't go wrong, there) No, on reflection, think both TC and L are correct. Publisher sounds like a real twat to me :-)

That is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear in both cases .... thanks all. I am smiling big. not going to get my re-print but what the hell.

Thank you. :-)