Obesity

What's wrong with a decent diet and some exercise? Losing weight is easy -it's breaking the bad habits that is hard. All these diets are nonsense as well - it's just a simple equation - what you put in minus what you burn off. Put less in burn more off is the way. And not in some mad crash diet that will yo yo back up again - but in little ways, giving time for your body to adjust - otherwise you get askin that's two times to big. I always think - don't eat a Mars bar when you can have Belgium chocolate, or double chocolate fudge covered sponge. Enjoy food but there's so much sugar and fat in junk. Eat the fat and the sugar, by all means - it's great afterall - just make sure they're in great food, not shitty crisps or £2 pizzas or biscuits (although chocolate Hob-Nobs were crafted in hog heaven). hate the fat suits as well - USA double standards are always annoying.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be better for everyone to be a bit healthier. But that is different to the abuse people who are overweight (and not just obese or morbidly obese) are expected to put up with 'jovialy'. I think that weight is one of the last things it's seemingly okay to have a go at.... and my theory is that it is 'weakness made manifest' - as in people see it as proof that the person concerned is weak emotionally. Drinkers, smokers, drug takers and other types of addictive behaviour is not judged in that same way, and I think that comes down to the superficial - you can see when someone is overweight, but you can't always see other things people use to get through the day. People don't mind addictions - as long as they can't see it to remind them of their own.

>I didn't see it - mostly because in the ads they played 'sympathetic' casio >keyboard string music , which is usually enough to put me off. I always hate it when that twat starts on the fingerpicking guitar, and worst of all, the introspective nostalgic voiceover that first appeared in 'The Wonder Years' and no infects everything with sugar-sweet bile. e.g. 'It made me remember how we all once were, a time of getting to know each other, of innocence of...' *VOMIT*

Me to kj.... and I love the fact that when it's an ITV documentary it's supposed to signify something very sincere, when in fact, it is the heart of cynicism and represents nothing but the wish to make cash out of the adverts. (sorry, all this politics on the other thread has got Hayley Rant out of her box).

Fergal has a point and it's something I've been aware of for many years. The problem with food addiction is that it's an addiction to somethiong that we ALL enjoy and use rather than some horrid drug that is best avoided. You can't give up food because it's necessary to live so you have to curb your feelings towards it without just ignoring it all together. I've said this before but if you were a herion addict it would be very easy to find a way of living that avoided it and people who never used it and a society that reviled it and, therefore, assisted your mental attitude towards it. alcohol? cigarettes? more common but also fairly easy to simply avoid all contact with if you really want to and, lets face it, nobody is going to tell you need nicotine or alcohol to stay alive are they? Food is everywhere and everyone's loving it! Clebrity chefs, supermarkets, fast food places, you can't get away from it and it's made as tempting as possible all the time... in moderation of course (and there's the rub). Imagine if there were programmes where celebrities sucked on crack pipes and there were adverts everywhere for the stuff showing families enjoying a mutual shoot up session. Places at the side of the road offering very cheap and easy hits of herion and every magazine telling you new ways to get it into your veins... "In this weeks edition of 'Needle and Vein' we look at the groin- a great source of throbbing blue friends!" Then imagine a drug addict trying to give it up. To go 'cold turkey' when all around him there are adverts and programmes extolling the virtues of the stuff and his friends are telling him to 'cut down' while tapping their inner elbows and gripping a belt between their teeth with a smile.

Well, my Mum is size 20. She doesn't worry about her weight or what she eats, although she does get sad she can't buy nice clothes. However, the thing is she NEVER gets ill. No colds, upset tummies, nothing. I think the stress of worrying about being overweight all on its own is bad for people. And another thing is, if you are always thinking you look crap you will feel crap and project crapness. It's much better to feel happy, project happiness. I have the opposite of you though :0) As I am about 6-7 stone she always tells me I am too thin, should eat properly etc :0) I am sorry, I laughed at that bit about the drip.

Fergal YOU'RE FUNNY AND CLEVER AND KIND AND IMAGINATIVE. You are one of the best writers on this site and I'd buy something written by you even though I'm the stingiest person I know You WILL get a job, don't you worry! And if the worst comes to the worst you can work in a supermarket. In my experience everyone is kind (not including shoppers, but that was in Farnham where apparently they are scarier than anywhere in Britain) I don't know if all places of work are as amusing as large supermarkets, or if I was driven bonkers so found where I worked funny, but there are worse places (being a toilet cleaner is GRIM) Anyway, don't feel down? And like KJ says try not to eat junk? Why not MAKE cakes? Your man would love them, you'd feel good cos you'd made something, and they'd be better for you too love fay xxx

precicely...it's pretty difficult. My favourite for this is before Christmas all those ads for delicous food at loving family times and then in January all the diet and fitness ads. Bastards.

Now I'm going to have to breath in a lot all of tomorrow night.

It was funny though fey. That's the thing. If you can't laugh...what can you do? (I think being happy whatever you are whenever you are it is the best thing you can do...)

You'd better not Tony.

You haven't gone all lard-arsey have you Tony? I often wonder how those that are manage to keep their drains clean, ya know.

I suppose when all is said and done, I have pretty much come to despise the 'victim culture' - it is somehow seen to be worthy and have merit to wear your victim badge like some justification for all your shortfalls in life. These are just convenient arguments that only compound the problem and do not seek to solve it. Agreeing with you that your life is shit and that you have good reason to be the way you are does not solve anything. It just compounds the problems of obesity in society (and a host of other 'Victim Culture' problems). It is self-indulgence made even more grotesque by the millions of children that are starving in the world. Take them to Somalia and Ethiopia and let them waddle around the starving, this hopefully would have more effect on their sensibilities than telling them 'it's not your fault' What is worse, is that there are individuals out there who genuinely do have metabolic problems who are tarred with the same brush.

Didn't see any 'metabolic' problems coming out of Belsen.

Yes, but I think it is also disgusting that people spend hundreds of pounds on special sea kelps and whatever to keep themselves in optimum health. The whole Gillian McKeith thing pretends to be about 'goodness', but in actuality her supplements and health food bars and stuff cost a fortune. A lot of 'healthy' and 'fit' people I know spend a fortune on this stuff, or on gyms etc, and I can't see how that is more acceptable than eating a few mars bars. Although I am biased by the fact that I am known to eat a fair few mars bars and perhaps I am in denial.

Thanks for your kind words fay I have applied to four supermarkets in Norwich and none of the want me *sigh* I used to be a marvellous cook - was a chef for a time - and I made loads of lovely things in my oven - roast vegetables were my favourite. I am a vegetable fanatic and am yet to find any veg I don't like. Since being in Norwich I have a two ring hob with one of the hobs not working, so basically I have one hob ring to cook with. It is unbelievable how much stuff you *can't* cook on there without an oven, and I tend to cook loads of pasta because it's easy. I am sure once we can afford a cooker my eating habits will go back to how they used to be. I do miss cooking - it used to be one of my favourite parts of the day. Now it's like 'Do I cook the bolognaise first, or the spaghetti first?' (In case you're wondering I never use tubs of sauce, I always make everything from scratch). But I am sure I'll find something. We managed without a bed for half a year, and that was something else! We had this air bed and every morning we woke up we were like one of the custard crown danish pastries - all the air had squeezed out to the edges and we were basically on the floor. It's good for the soul though, I am sure. And when we can get stuff I am sure we will appreciate it much more.

Also, I don't actually consider myself obese, so I'm not sure how I got onto this subject! I was trying to stick up for other people, not me. I'm just er, a little overweight, and, er, you know, it doesn't bother me much.

My problem is that I've got an electric cooker - which makes cooking bloody hard. Have recently invested in a microwave which helps - you can pick them up for £30 - you can do your pasta first, rinse it and just blast it in the Microwave before you serve it. Also, you could add the rice or the pasat to the sauce before you serve it maybe. Salads are cheap and easy - my favourite - fresh Tuna salad - healthy and bloody gorgeous. I love my pastas, noodles and rice but as they all require a healthy amount of frying, I only allow myself one or two a week. I eat plenty of veg as well - broccolli, cauliflowef - things that fill the plate up to fool my mind and stomach that I'm eating loads. I can get quite stuffed on a good salad. I keep away from chocolate - unless I'm at a restaurant -and then it's no holds barred! - don't buy eggs or biscuits - have UHT fat free milk, which is just the best, believe me - and definatelt no processed packaged food - yuck! A lovely meal for me is a piece of grilled chicken breast, or tuna, some veggoes and bread with hard bits in it - oh yes, and a good extra helping of Hell's Kitchen which I'm sadly addicted to... :(( [%sig%]

skimmed milk is the only milk I drink (other stuff is just too gloopy *shudder*) I have a salad with every evening meal just about, or a big pile of veg. I only cook with olive oil. I eat usually more than my 5 a day. I often start the day with porridge. Avacados are just too good to be true (tasty and so full of good things) I don't think I've ever tried a jar of pasta sauce or bolognese sauce or curry sauce or anything. I grow my own herbs in pots. Erm, I'm not sure what I'm trying to convince you of (or me of for that matter). But don't you just get a thing about butter icing?? I mean, it's amazing. Coffee flavoured especially. It's what I eat between meals that gets me, and the fact I don't do much exercise any more. I won't lose sleep about it. I am sure when I have a 'lifestyle' change (ie when I get a job and when I can afford to join the gym again) I will sort myself out. Other than that I'm attractive, outgoing, interesting (I bloody hope), and there are worse things than being a stone overweight. I don't even think about it really, other than this thread, which has made me think about it in ways I usually wouldn't. I grew up in a house where the fridge was covered with magnets that said, 'Stay thin!' and 'Don't eat!' and 'Hip Watch!'. All my step mother ever talked about was losing weight. She was a lot younger than my dad, and in fact all my dad's girlfriends were always a lot younger and more nubile and I think I lost the need to be like that when I saw that he couldn't pick an intellectual equal - just a young twinkie with nice tits who had less conversatinal skills than a monkey, was suspicious, and was always encouraging his daugther to go on diets and over-exercise before she'd even gone through puberty. Ha ha. I can't be balanced about this because I lived with a body fascist all my teen years, and also the last thing my dad ever said to me before he died was 'loose some weight'. I wasn't even that big, I don't think. I thought he was going to give the secrets of the universe. Yeah, right!

Actually to be fair to my lovely dad he did say, 'Please lose some weight', so at least he was polite. The last thing my mum said was, 'You've always been clumsy haven't you?' ha ha.

It is not remotely 'disgusting'. 'Misguided' at the very worst. What is disgusting is the surplus of food and greed leading to seriously overweight inividuals when a third of the world is starving. I think you might be in denial...slightly.

(p.s. I used to be the Food Editor at Slimmer magazine, so I do know about this kind of thing - I suppose I've made an active choice not to think about it for the time being. It was once my job to know every bloody calorie/fat content for everything and I have never been more boring)

I do agree that it is terrible beyond belief that some of the world is overweight and some is starving. I don't understand how it can be that way... it seems very wrong and ridiculous and terrible. I know what you're saying about victim culture... but it's like ely said.. .if there were adverts all the time saying 'shoot up this lovely herion' it would be . Addiction and greed are different things. I just don't think telling people what they're doing is 'disgusting' helps anybody (what the governments are doing is disgusting).... I don't eat because I'm greedy. I eat because a) I like food and sometimes because b) I feel really crap and it is the only thing that makes me feel okay. I dont' eat because I'm greedy. I'm sure of that. I eat the same way people smoke and drink and take drugs. I'm not vindicating it, but that's the way it is.

you're not fat ffs. And if your mum thought you were clumsy, good job she never met me... (remember the three wine glass and large coffee jar smashathon on Saturday?)

ha ha - I wasn't saying I was fat - I just ended up arguing a corner which I inadvertedly put myself in. I just find the whole subject a bit boring (really hayley that's why you keep posting, huh?) ha ha - I was glad it wasn't me with the glasses, although it easily could have been. I still have that scratch on my forehead. What the feck was that about? (To be fair to my mum too I had just barged into her drip when she said it!)

God all this food talk makes me hungry!

Yeah... a slice of cake is on the cards. And a skinny latte of course.

I am very greedy and I eat to make myself feel better. I love food and drink and I love it usually to excess, but I also do exercise to keep the weight off. I don't buy any of those products you mentioned earlier, they are for people who are pretending they are fit rather than just getting out there and playing a bit of sport, running and maybe some gym. 'Eating Addiction' is just another label that the 'victim culture' has created, like 'Sex Addiction' etc. It's just a label for the greedy and the lazy and the indulgent in society. It's a balance that is all. What you put in against what you burn off. As I've got older, my metabolism has slowed, but a nice run in the morning down the beach is a great way to get it up to speed again, and increases your metabolism all day. I was overweight for a short while a few years ago, and the thought of exercise a real turn-offf, but I started playing tennis (I nearly died on the first lesson, bouncing the ball up and down - honestly) and found that getting fit is great fun, particularly if you make it a social sport - it's more than fun, it's brilliant. Your brain comes back to life as well. The gym was the next move simply because I have a weak shoulder, and being long and thin, it greatly helped my back probs. By no means am I a health freak, and find all that body facism a real turn off. I'm not on that or any side of 'the fence'. A metaphor would be - would you stop cleaning your teeth and wander about with horrible smelly brown teeth and horrendous, knowing that everyone would find it particularly unnattractive and also knowing that in the long run they would all fall out prematurely - or would you start cleaning them everyday, and manage the problem? [%sig%]

I don't know what to say to that.

One thing I will say is: yes exercise is good for you and everyone would feel better if they did it (I actully go swimming a lot because I love it - and walk a lot too)... but to tell people they are 'unattractive' is not the way to encourage it. Well, not in my opinion. Then you feel you are doing it for other people and not yourself. People can be very shallow and care about that more than other things. I would rather spend my time with an overweight, funny, clever, interesting person than a very fit and attractive person who I have nothing in common with.

hurrah, so would I. Even one with manky teeth.

ha! I've just worked it out. I't because i'm like a tipple I probably have a few bottles of wine a week, the odd gin and tonic, ale, guiness (sometimes more) and think of all those 'wasted' calories. Ah at least it wasn't the cake. *relieved*

I like a tipple. I may *be* like a tipple, that that is entirely different.

Ferg, You keep trying to turn this into a discussion about 'shallowness' and 'attractiveness' - I was talking about a responsibility of self, rather than what 'people' or 'society' dictates or 'thinks'. I'm sure for anybody with a 'regular brain', would not want to appear unnattractive if they had the choice (not that with the best will in the world, I could be classed as particularly attractive). But okay, I'll bite as I feel this is what you really want to talk about. Attractiveness: A muddied concept. Society has it's ideals, fashion has it's sticks, but humans are a little bit more complex than that and to use fashion, and magazine's 'unreasonable ideal' that 'we cannot possibly aspire to' as a reason why people are obese is nonsense. It's an excuse. There are also, 'funny, clever, interesting' attractive people as well you know. And some damn unpleasant overweight people - that's not really an issue surely - unless you see a lack of virtue in attractive people and in reality you have some unresolved issues here - and I have to say it sounds like you do?

A report no doubt generated and paid for by the NRA version of the sugar and lard congomerates of America. I think we should send all the fatties to specially built liposuction farms, and the collected lard used to feed the world's starving...

You have made me think kj... 'with this I thought about this carefully to see if I count as one of these people you describe... Maybe I have got into a pattern of eating because I've lost a lot of confidence from trying to find a job - any job - in Norwich since September last year. The more rejections I get the worse I feel about myself - sometimes I can't see a way out of it and imagine that I am perhaps - unemployable, which is not a nice thought at 28. I get up every day and think, 'another day! I'll get a job today!' - I have applied for 150 jobs since September and am yet to get one. I have kept all the rejection letters. I apply for at least one a working day and usually more. It puts strain on my relationship, it makes me feel bad, and sometimes a bag of m&ms seems a delectable bit of relief. I don't sit around feeling sorry for myself - at least not much of the time - but I would very much like a job sometime soon. I did have a job in Colchester which I left because it was costing £80 a week to travel there and also - who wants to stay away in the week when you have a flat and lovely partner in Norwich? I feel sorry for Gareth as he is working ridiculously hard at his PGCE, and stays up most nights planning lessons for the next day. I would like to do teacher training, but you can't until you've got experience. I have written to every secondary and primary school in the Norwich/Norfolk area (justabouts) to ask for work experience or time as a teaching assistant, as of yet to no avail. Sometimes it feels like I am doing absolutely no good on this planet whatsoever. Other times it feels like I am quite useful and nice and good to be around. I think things can become quite complicated. I don't see myself as a victim, but I do get frustrated that I can't find an outlet for the skills I've got. Sometimes I beat myself up because I think I am lazy or greedy or whatever... but I really am trying. I suppose I found your comments judgemental and a bit accusatory, mostly because I'm not feeling that good about things in general at the mo. If I had to worry about not overeating on top of that I would probably go and hide in the washing basket.

ouch.

Mmmm, yummy, I'd like an adipose smoothie with mango, please. Extra vitamins to counteract all the preservatives remaining in the fat from the originator's poor diet... *green barfy face*

They'd lap it up! lavly jabbly!

And I say again. Ouch.

...although it would probably have a porky after taste :(

Hi Ferg, Yes, I can be a bit dogmatic from time to time - and I do understand desperation and, if I'm very honest, utter depression and know where you're coming from - it can get bleak from time to time, but you certainly don't sound 'lazy', or 'greedy' or 'self-indulgent', quite the opposite, in fact.

cheers.

...it's probably those same 'qualities' that I see in myself that I get so annoyed with, heh

you can eat crap and not be obese if you do what I do... This morning, for example, I had a double cheese burger and cherry pie with custard for breakfast (I really did). the reason was that the cherry pie was over a week out of date and it's fragile defences were beginning to fall even within the safety of the fridge. Now you can't just go having a pudding for breakfast, I mean, come on! so I had to have something 'lunchy' to precede it. Hence the burger. My conclusion? Well, there's never a bad time to eat anything. (it took me back to my student days of taking all the wrappers off the cans and having kebab and egg butties and home brew for breakfast) There's a chance that the pie was off even though it tasted lovely so I might get a little rumbly in the tumbly later... or I might not but if I do then I'll probably get a dose of the squits and my weight will crease to be an issue. ANYTHING'S BETTER THAN MEUSLI- ANYTHING AT ALL!!!!!

I remember getting up and eating last night's curry - the one I fell asleep in. My friends were disgusted. I thought it was great - even the flat lager went down quite well (once I filtered out the cigarette dips). Also cold Pizza and flat lager is p0retty damn good. Food in the morning is basically 'food not fat' - sets you up for the day. I personally love food, and eat what I like as I excersize a lot: gym, running, badminton, tapping plastic, and I don't want to turn into a blob. Food is such a great treat, I love restaurants and cooking and all that eating for pleasure malarkey.

You don't want to turn into a blob, you want to turn into a sanctimonious.... (CUT - fergal is a nice member of abctales and doesn't want to get into all that angerswinging before tomorrow's big event)

so far in this thread I've read: sugar lard porky fatties blob smug gits.

(p.s. I agree with eating a big breakfast... what's the point of having a small breakfast when you need loads of energy for the day?)

hey, my sister's fat LOL