Kate Moss.

Many models do have a particular kind of look – e.g. eyes further apart than the ‘average person’. Many models seem to be required to be thin, tall, and sometimes rather strange looking – they don’t have to be necessarily ‘beautiful’ in the face department. Perhaps Kate needs to keep an eye or two out for that Babyshambles bloke, eh?

She is beautiful! Of course her looks are commented on so much that it has become a cliche. There are so many different kinds of beauty and it's a pity just to focus on one skinny white girl. But she really is gorgeous - stunningly photogenic.

I think Kate WINSLET is beautiful. The woman has curves and a gorgeous face. Plus, she has some talent, something which cannot be said for Miss Moss, unless it's a talent for attracting unattractive, talentless smack-addicted wasteoids.

Kate Moss is lovely, you're right about her looks in some ways, but there's just something about her. I should add she looks a lot better for having had a kid. I'm more concerned about the media furor around her snorting a few lines of coke and not getting done for it, fuck me, how many politicians now have *admitted* the odd smoke, what about other rock stars with highly publicised drug habits, do we prosecute them? Also on the media coverage of the affair, wonder what could have taken up those pages in the papers and air time on TV. Back to the subject, Kate Moss is a proper sort. nobody

She is beautiful - rare amongst "super" models. Angelina always does it for me, though... Oh, and I've just seen Underworld: Evolution... Kate Beckinsale in tight black PVC... PHNWWWWRRGGNNNNFFFZZT!!! (that's Robotish for "Phwoar") :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

I'd say that you're getting confused between beautiful and sexy.

Ahh, the old beautiful/sexy debate. How can such be defined? Beautiful, I suppose, can be said to be more... aesthetic. More cerebral. In the sense that a landscape can be beautiful (although I suppose it can be sexy also, if it is in the shape of a woman!). Beauty does not necessarily have anything to do with sexual attraction. Whereas "sexy" has everything to do with what happens down below! I believe it is possible to be both beautiful and sexy. Personally, regarding my own tastes, I tend not to differentiate. I find Angelina Jolie both beautiful and sexy. And Kate Beckinsale. And, of coufse, my girlfriend! (who is obviously the most beautiful and the most sexy) But what of one without the other? Who is beautiful but not sexy? Who is sexy but not beautiful? Answers on a postcard... (or on this forum will do)... :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

Pep, when did you go from Larry and Mick to Sartre? In so many of your posts recently you seem to be philosophising! Is it a time of life thing? Ben. PS (The above is well-intended banter, not the start of an argument..!)

Enz... Do you not see the philosophy in L+M? Are not Monsieurs Lampshade and Mastodon not the deepest of thinkers? Is "Larry and Mick Find Inner Peace" not a telling portrait of the ails of modern society? As it happens, I've always been something of a philosophical sort. In my fiction, however, I prefer to allow my deeper thoughts to seep through almost (?) imperceptibly. Regarding your... >>> PS (The above is well-intended banter, not the start of an argument..!) ...shame! I like a good argument! So tell me, Mr V2.0... who do you find beautiful-but-not-sexy and/or sexy-but-not-beautiful? :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

In my humble opinion she is beautiful, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so it's not possible to really state catagorically. www.icanlearnenglish.com

Here's how I see it: There's meaning and there's aesthetics. I would put physical beauty and body language into the aesthetics category. I would put personality and intellignece in to the 'meaning' category. So I'd say that physical attractiveness in all forms is aesthetic. Being attracted to a personality is different, it is 'attraction to meaning', and while I believe a personality can be attractive, I do not belive it can be sexy. Even when women say, 'he's so smart, he's so sexy', the man they're talking about may well be ugly, but there would still be something in the way that he talks, or moves that brings the 'smartness' to the realms of the 'sexy', and these actions are aesthetic. Sexiness(sp?) and beauty are forever linked, with sexiness as a kind of subset of beauty, which is a subset of aesthetics.

Kate Moss is neither beautiful nor sexy in my opinion. Society says stick thin is sexy, but I ask all the men to truly explore themselves and then look again at her with fresh eyes: you will soon realise that impoverished is NOT a good look. Pepsi's two choices are good (his girlfriend aside - I've never seen her). I like brunettes, always. Rounds off the face better.

Enzo... Cripes! I, however, would hold that personality can be sexy... although you do seem, in a circular fashion, to have argued your way into believing that yourself! If beauty (or indeed sexiness) is in the eye of the beholder, could not one's perspective and perception be altered as a consequence of a reaction to the personality (or, in a more esoteric sense, "soul") behind the face/body/whatever? I would say, undoubtedly, that I found my girlfriend sexier and, indeed, more beautiful, upon "getting to know" her. Conversely, if a conventionally beautiful/sexy model/actress/whatever turns out to have the personality of a brick, I would personally find that to be something of a turn-off, in the "Would I like to sleep with them?" sense. Back to you! (PS. there is (IMHO) something about Ms Moss... I don't normally go for the stick-thin type, but there is something... ooh, I dunno... in the eyes or whatever... I also happen to find Michelle Gomez (the Scottish lady from Green Wing) sexy, on account largely of her personality (or rather the personality of her characters) - someone who I definitely would not have said is my "type") :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

From my point of view somebody can be highly attractive when they first enter a room and then you speak to them and that is lost, and the meaning takes away the aesthetic I enjoyed in the first place. This happens a lot to me. The handy thing about people who appear in photographs and films is that we never see their actual personality, so their beauty is a template within which we can attach our own ideals of meaning... Kate Moss is a perfect example, and part of her skill and attraction comes from the fact that (until her recent ad for Virgin in which she put on a faux posh accent and had over 150 retakes) nobody knew what she sounded like. There were barely any interviews, and she is the ultimate face and a body. Perfect for transporting the inner worlds of the onlooker onto. I'm not sure if asethetics and sex have to be/are interlinked... Aesthetically I can enjoy looking at beautiful women a lot, and am fascinated with the kind of women who spend ages on getting ready, make-up, clothes, fabulous hair. I don't want to have sex with them, particularly, I just like looking at them because they appeal to my sense of taste, my sense of what things are attractive to me (shapes, colours etc)... beauty and sex are not always the same. Also, I know for a fact that the rigmarole those women use to look that way definitely is not sexually attractive. It is dull and time consuming. I like the outcome, not the process. That's why, I think, a woman's attraction to a man may well not be anything to do with aesthetics... she really could find the personality 'sexy' (dreadful word, makes me think of baby oil and appropriated behaviour learnt from Ministry of Sound ads), and that would not have to transfer into his looks... sexual attraction doesn't necessarily come from the aesthetic, not always. Also - women have a different aesthetic interest in other women than men do. Women are often aesthetically interested in very thin women, or women who never seem to have a hair out of place... this is why Kate Moss appeals to lots of women (not me) - because she is the ultimate embodiment of success on those judgement terms (shallow things like her thinness, her clothes, her don't-give-a-fuck attitude, her travelling, her exotic boyfriends, her money) Being attracted to someone is not the same as finding them physically attractive... at least not always. I dunno. It's so easy to see someone who looks wonderfully attractive and think that it will be the same in their inner world. This, of course, is highly improbable, but that doesn't stop us doing it. Then again, my last boyfriend was somebody I thought was the most attractive person I have ever seen when I first saw him. At first I did that thing we all do, which is transfer my attraction onto his personality, presuming he must be a wonderful human being too. Luckily for me, he is a wonderful human being, but that was luck on my part and not necessarily representative. I like the look of Kate Moss myself, because she looks so 'well done'. I find that intriguing. (oh, and styxbroox, that girl of the Bueno advert was in Hollyoaks for a while a year back. Not that I've ever watched it.)

A pointless discussion if ever there was one. Perhaps styx SHOULD have asked, 'Who do you find beautiful?' In my case Moss wouldn't even register on the average scale. She's a dope-head (decidedly unattractive, partly because what we KNOW about people affects what we see). You can see far more attractive and beautiful women walking down any street in the world (well almost, it's a bit difficult to see anything female in some places). I believe Moss is an ugly person, both physically and character wise. As I said, (and Jon pointed out) it's my opinion and very subjective.

I like the look of her, but don't want to know her. Do you know what I mean? Also, it is true, very true, that beauty if photographs is very different from beauty in real life. Lots of people I consider to be beautiful in real life look terrible in photos. It is true that Kate Moss has a sneer on her face.

'beauty in photographs'

>>> A pointless discussion if ever there was one. ...pointless? How so? What makes a discussion a pointless one? And what makes a discussion a discussion worth having? And furthermore, if it's pointless, my friend, then why are you taking part? Back to the beauty issue, if I may summarise thus... "It's all in the genes/jeans." ...and you can quote me on that. :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )