B.A.S

rah rah

"I can't believe it's not poetry, but then, what the hell do I knowetry."

i think Biggus should be particularly lauded for the recycling of ancient jokes such as Tommy Cooper's two aerials ...

Which one was that? Have you got the link? (I've forgotten the joke)

Right now, I have 183 stories in 19 collections on the site. gulp

Hmmm, I appear to be spending far too much time at work (apart from today as my damn ears are playing up), I thought Cath had started a thread about Behaviour Action Sheets, we dish these out at school to those who misbehave or break the rules. Perhaps they should include a box to tick for repetitiveness?

Biggus lives in Woking, my home town. I left 12 years ago and I'm still recovering. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

Behaviour Action Sheets. Could be handy for filling in those missing hours at the end of parties. ~ www.fabulousmother.com

Probably the only thing they would be useful for Lou, other than burning that is!

Can you imagine how hurt you'd be if a group of people mocked you and your work? We all make ourselves vulnerable by posting here and when I read threads like this I can't help wincing at how painful it must be for the target. Cathy

I'm not sure how one post can be construed as "all this 'oh this is cruel' stuff". I just don't think it's necessary to mock other people's work, no matter how poor you might think it is. I know how it would make me feel.

I think today's The Smart Wish is a bit of a case in point. And Biggus is a widely-published writer, too, according to his profile - so he's probably quite confident about his work and its content.

Well, look at it this way; he's sure to find a wide readership amongst certain factions of society; Lads' magazines and such probably love it. I'd probably read it on the loo; it seems like the kind of book of jokes, gags, and riddles one keeps in the mag basket in the bathroom. And I don't mean that facetiously, either. There *is* a market for such stuff. Mostly amongst working class bachelors and perhaps well-educated but misogynistic bachelors as well...

Erm... yeah... though I'm a working-class bachelor (alright, then - divorcee). Though I'm not really sure how the class thing is worked out any more. Does anyone know?

Perhaps I should clarify that I mean a certain *type* of 'working class bachelor', the kind I see puking outside pubs on a Saturday night, shouting 'ING-ER-LUND! ING-ER-LUND!' in between heaves. You know what I mean? I *certainly* don't mean sensitive literary-type working class divorcee-bachelors!! *attempts to scramble out of hole and hits head on shovel*

I think the people you're talking about are the new ruling underclass - the Chav, Townie, etc. The good old fashioned working class types are a different kettle of fish. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

Each post in this thread from "archergirl | October 12, 2006 - 12:17" downward has made me want to post a thirty metre high question mark made of burning blue fire in response. It's like a group of wading birds listlessly picking a carrierbag caught in the reeds at the edge of a slow flowing stream. They're pecking, they're not interested, they don't want to be doing it, but are compelled anyway, more by the presence of each other than anything else. It's like a patronising version of 'Mornington Crescent', getting from slagging someone off for being a bit rubbish a poetry but having a hugely thick skin to 'the new ruling under class - The Chav' in as few steps as possible. Cheers, Mark

"Can you imagine how hurt you'd be if a group of people mocked you and your work?" Well, yeah, most of us who've done a bit of writing have experienced it. And given the choice between mockery and pity - mockery is a considerably kinder and more honest offering. Mockery of your amateur writing should be easier to handle than being mocked for your appearance, gender, race or religion (as Biggus repeatedly does to others in his work). If you do find it's impossible to take, there's a big gaping space under most of our beds where unpublished writing can be easily deposited and then your writing can continue to be as good or bad as you choose to believe it to be for ever and ever (amen). That said, I'm not completely sure that the Biggus persona - the lovechild of William McGonagall and Jim Davidson - isn't a wind-up.

I had always assumed that Biggus was a joke - but I could be wrong. Who knows? He/she continues to submit material and we continue to read it. That's ABC for you!

Sorry, Mark. You're right - a stupid and pointless digression... though only a very tiny one. I've seen some huge ones before that have ranged off the subject for post after post. But that's not the point. I agree with what you say, and I'm sorry. I think Archergirl has a point about the appeal of the type of poetry in question. That should be good enough. I'm an arsehole here (and elsewhere, probably) and I'm prepared to admit it.

No, Cathy - I'M saying I'm an arsehole. And I do accept your point. I, too, have run the gauntlet of ridicule throughout life - it's one of the reasons that I only started posting to ABC relatively recently, despite being registered for over 6 years: lack of confidence in my work. I still have little confidence now, and the slightest negative thing can send me over the edge. So what right do I have to knock someone else? I guess, for me, it came down to a combination of factors. If it was just style, that's one thing. But it's content, too. And then, coupling that with the fact that it didn't appear to me that we were talking about a novice, nervous writer, but a published and confident-sounding one... well. I just feel that's laying yourself wide open. I've read every post on this thread a couple of times, and I think everyone raises good points - on both sides. My overriding feeling is that Biggus would probably not be too perturbed if he read this thread. It sounds like he's got an appreciative audience - here and elsewhere. He'd probably just dismiss it as a load of arrogant PC shithead nonsense. That's my feeling. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten involved with this. If I'd felt otherwise, I'd have tried to be more constructive. In many ways, now, I wish I'd kept my gob shut. Maybe that's what I should do in future. (Incidentally, on the point about Stephen Fry... If Bernard Manning lacked confidence and was hyper-sensitive to adverse criticism, would I give a toss about his feelings? Not on your life. Stephen Fry, I think, is a different pan of potatoes entirely).

*In many ways, now, I wish I'd kept my gob shut. Maybe that's what I should do in future.* No Alan you really shouldn't!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Camus - but I think I will, anyway. I hate upsetting people. I think I should just keep my thoughts to myself.

I think it would be a huge shame if you decided to keep your gob shut AB. I have heard more sense, wisdom and entertaining conversation from you than I have from most of the rest of the world's population put together It was never my intention to upset you, and I'm very sorry that I have. Cathy

"Each post in this thread from "archergirl | October 12, 2006 - 12:17" downward has made me want to post a thirty metre high question mark made of burning blue fire in response. It's like a group of wading birds listlessly picking a carrierbag caught in the reeds at the edge of a slow flowing stream. " LOL! But Mark, surely that's the wonder of ABCTales, that threads wendle along such divergent paths! Jude, you're right: that's *exactly* who I meant, and humble apologies to anyone I misrepresented!

"It's that kind of experience that stops people from even trying to do things that they might not be good at. I know whereof I speak, because I have spent most of my life being afraid to try anything new for fear of looking stupid and being laughed at. All because when I was a kid I dared to try playing netball and rounders when I wasn't very good at it." I don't accept the starting point that it's necessarily a bad thing for people to be discouraged from doing things they're not good at. It very much depends on the context. Hale and Pace, for example, should have been discouraged from trying to become a comedy duo. If only they'd been mocked more thoroughly, more quickly, the TV world would've been a considerably funnier place. But as Cath Carr points out, the situation with Biggus and his poetry is quite different. He isn't a naive, inexperienced person trying a new thing. "Biggus may be bigoted, he may be a poor poet, but is that any excuse?" Well, unless your position is that no one should ever be mocked for their writing ever, it's as good a combination of excuses as you're going to get. If you do think no one should ever be mocked for their writing ever then it's a purely rhetorical question.

Being rubbish at poetry is not, in itself, a distinction on abctales. It's when you get a perfect storm of someone who is both very crap and very prolific that people start to take notice. Come on, chaps. This http://www.abctales.com/node/555424 is awesome. 'I peeked between her private curtains Drawing them then began to sup Her body writhed and moaned As I drank deeply from her velvet cup' Beautiful, beautiful. Brought a tear to my eye. And how about this: http://www.abctales.com/node/555423 containing possibly my favourite couplet of all time, ever: 'I entered the living room from the garden To a scene which gave me a hard on'

No, I mean seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. I love Biggus. This stuff is pure genius. I've not enjoyed poetry on abctales since the high watermark of msbeswick's deeply spiritual piece, 'Bum Sex': http://www.abctales.com/forum/2006/02/28/bum-sex-by-msbeswick http://www.abctales.com/story/mbeswick/bum-sex (as an artistic work it is perfect and therefore cannot be beaten) I keep stumbling upon amazing couplets. To whit: 'At the funeral on the remembrance lawn Looking at her all in black gave me the horn' 'Gently I kissed her pale pink haven Silkily soft to touch and freshly shaven' I mean, he's firing out pearls. Sometimes literally: 'Then came the gift for naughty girls When she wore my necklace of pearls' Biggus is incredibly versatile. He does eulogy: 'Hey there Miss Tunney You’re quite a honey With a disposition sunny And sense of humour, funny So cute just like a bunny I’d pay a deal of money Just to taste your cunny' Haberdashery: 'Do you do it wearing a hat? In German helmet and jack boots Cross dressing perhaps' Bravery: After a brief time I thought I’d try my luck “You really are lovely do you fancy a fuck”? Psycho-sociology: 'Do you like it to be a public place? When she’s sitting on your face' Tragedy: 'I think the dog wants to go out He doesn’t bark and he cannot shout' he even tackles philosophy: 'There seems to be no comparing Oral sex and tight rope walking' Devastatingly good. I've genuinely, genuinely had a lovely time reading through the Biggus archives. Keep 'em cumming!

I'm not so sure, Tim. It's all very well for you, with your artsy-fartsy degree, to go on about Biggus' skill, but what does he say to the common man? His poems are little more than a series of cryptic crossword clues, dressed up in neologisms, designed purely to alienate any reader with a non-academic background. For example, it's all very well to write "When she spent most of the day in a scanty bikini/And she was extremely fit and flaunted it" when your reader has read the entirety of the Iliad, but how is anyone else supposed to know this is a reference to the Queen of Sparta? "Or does she straddle you like a monkey on a stick?/Is she animated when you’re at it?/Thrashing about a lot" is one of his stronger triplet of images, but what sense does it make to anyone who hasn't committed themselves to Tognaut's 'Theses on the Branch-Straddling Simians' (which is, need I remind you, twice the size of Proust's tawdry potboiler)? In truth, the only moment of genuine clarity I can find is this: "I pulled up her short skirt quickly by the hem/Exposing her buttocks then I fondled them." Now, if only *all* his couplets were along the same lines. ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

yuck i find biggus' work offensive ... looking at recently added i am immediately faced with The great thing about being Superior to foreigners Is not indulging in ritual Stoning of adulterers which i read in the preview bit under his title ... i appreciate biggus can write what he likes and i don't have to read it (and i never do click on his work) but can't someone at least disable his preview function? this would prevent his offensive nonsense being seen by accident ...

"The great thing about being Superior to foreigners Is not indulging in ritual Stoning of adulterers" This seems a very strange position to me. I imagine the people actually doing the stoning are probably having quite a good time so are probably quite happy with being themselves. Surely it should be: "The great thing about not being a foreign adulterer is not being ritually stoned to death" The problem is that doesn't rhyme.

I will start off my saying that I am not a writer myself but have been a visitor to this site for many months and I enjoy reading the varied contributions of those who do consider themselves to be writers. However I have been viewing this forum and have been so appalled at what I have read to the point that I have been forced to sign up with ABCtales in order to put a more balanced and less biased point of view. As I say I am not a writer so I come at this from a different angle than some of you and as I take the time to read all the postings on a daily basis I would like to say that I cannot understand how somebody can, in the same breath almost, condemn a writers work and admit that he never reads any of it. Some of the criticism and name calling would be better suited to the school playground. The word bigot was used and it would perhaps be better levelled at its user. Some of the comments were cruel, insensitive and at times vile. Has anyone of you actually read, “Butties and Baps”, “Car Rust Memories” or “Heart of Oak”? Or more recently “Awoken from slumber” I thought “Scrooge and Marley (deceased)” which appeared only a week or two ago was one of the most original ideas I had seen for a long time yet nobody commented. I will readily admit that I don’t like all of Biggus’s work, though the ones that seem to cause the most distress I still find amusing. I do believe you should try and be even handed about his/her work Slam the bad yes but praise the good also. You should also remember that we are very fortunate enough to have freedom of speak and freedom of expression don’t squash these rights. Theo

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I do claim to be a writer, though I don't claim to be a poet or have any great understanding of poetry, although I have written a few poems in the past they were not very good, but they did rhyme much like Biggus' poems do. And though I havent read much of what Biggus has posted I have read most of the titles and I skimmed though pretty much all of this thread last week, although the radio was on at the time so I might not have been concentrating that hard. Add to this that I am not easily offended and don't mind humour in bad taste if it is genuinely funny, and I can tie a bowlin knot with one hand and once met a Belgian member of parliment and that I do own a rhyming dictionary but only because it was going cheap at the time, and not to mention that the battery on my phone needs recharging and I am going to have a salmon fishcake for dinner tonight and really ought to be working right now instead of writing this drivel, I think I am uniquely qualified to approach this matter from an entirely different angle than anyone else. But I'm not going to.

"However I have been viewing this forum and have been so appalled at what I have read to the point that I have been forced to sign up with ABCtales in order to put a more balanced and less biased point of view." In what way is your view 'less biased' than anyone else's? My views are personal opinions. They're informed by my life experiences, as are yours, I imagine unless you are a computer, in which case your opinions will be informed by the life experiences of the person who created you. My views on this thread are not sponsored by and are not an attempt to promote the agenda of any corporation, nation state, political party, lobby group or religious group. I do not know Biggus personally and therefore my comments are based purely on my opinions of his work and my understanding of the reactions of others to that work.

Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone sniggers their tits off at Biggot pretending to be Cap.

"I would like to discuss "Scrooge and Marley" with you but I dont think this forum is used much for discussion" Well, not by you. You elitist swine. ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

Biggus I've left a message on your website. Theo

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Ohhh, Bigcap...really!

'Scrooge and Marley' then, a mon avis: Many of the rhymes are forced. The lines don't scan (ie. there is no regular rhythm), the tone is flat, and I'm not sure what's being added to the story, or what slant is being taken on it. It's harder to read than 'A Christmas Carol', which is no mean feat, and longer than the abridged version. It has less metaphors and general poetic language than the original. I generally think it's a bad idea to adapt Dicken's most succinct story from the page to the err... page. A play? Sure. A film? OK. Maybe even a graphic novel. But an epic poem leaves me asking, 'Why?' ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

"That said, I'm not completely sure that the Biggus persona - the lovechild of William McGonagall and Jim Davidson - isn't a wind-up." This was an honest critique, too.