The Anonymous Enemy by Biggus - Quite the worst poem I have ever read

I didn't know Daily Mail editorials rhymed! Quite agree, Mark.

Stick a few chords on that and it's a song by Discharge. I thought they were great. This isn't though, but neither is it the worst poem in the world, or even on abc. Chessable 9-5 at - Kurnik.org: Corruptsailor freechess.org (currently down): Ricardinio

I'd rather eat dead rats than read any more of Biggot's crap.

Yeah, I don't even understand what it is saying... and surely an anonymous enemy is annoymous.. and hey, I'm not being funny, but many people - Daily Mail included - have been blaming 'the liberal elite' for decades... hardly anonymous.. In fact, if you go into any pub you would find at least 2 people, at least, who would be saying the same thing. I would have been interested if a) the poem made sense and b) if Biggus had actually come up with a real anonymous enemy that I'd never heard of, or thought of.

anonymous, not annoymous.

More than anything else, this poem just strikes me as desperately confused. Usually with writing like this, my complaint is that people hammer one point home over and over again in overly simplified terms. With this, I'm struggling to find a point, and believe me, I've tried.

Aha, Biggus! Little did you know that you've joined an anonymous liberal elite web site, and we've ensnared you in our conspiracy to take over the world!

Check out the website http://www.freewebs.com/biggus/

At least with Biggus, you know where he is or isn't with his 'poetry' and what to expect and like Cath Carr, I no longer read it. I think Jack Cade once wrote on these forums somewhere that it is more irritating when you read something that is bad but you can't put your finger on exactly why! I had this experience with Mary Oliver's 'Wild Geese' after reading it for the first time recently. I just felt there was something really quite profoundly wrong with it but it is so well written, I couldn't say what...until someone did it for me: http://www.cosmoetica.com/D19-JD2.htm I love this quote 'This isn't the usual creative-writing-program-produced pap—no, this is highly-crafted, meticulously-designed, carefully-thought-out archetypal creative-writing pap. It takes a well-educated poet to write a poem this bad.' The thing is, Mary Oliver is widely regarded and highly acclaimed whereas Biggus probably never will be. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

ah, sigh. I don't really want to get into this on the discuss writing forum, but as my sis - a single mother of 2 who couldn't give a toss about politics - said the other day, 'I know people go on about the government hating the working class, but I have so many initiatives trying to help me get qualifications, with finding a job I like, with looking after my kids, with money, that I don't know whether I'm the only one or if nobody talks about it.'

Knotty stuff indeed. OK, come on though - Biggus isn't being the least bit bigoted or racist here. He's clumsily reiterated the 'one people, different colours' mantra several times in the poem - he's saying there are no 'black' or 'white' people, just lots of different shades, and that the race divide is a creation of the liberal elite. It *is* the kind of utter rubbish you'd expect from someone who has adopted various phrases and ideas without understanding what they mean, however. It's clearly the right wing who harp on about race, immigration, terrorist attacks et al and want to keep their readers polarised. The 'liberal elite' is a phrase that means completely different things depending on who you talk to (is it the government? Lawyers? The left-wing press? The BBC? The entirety of the middle class?) but I've never seen it used to describe arch-conservatives before. Gah. It's far too knotty to untangle, but yeah, Biggus is out of his depth. The argument doesn't wash at all. "Ideologically, I agree that the white working class are being marginalised by the liberal elite in this country. This elite thinks all white working class people are racist scum." No one thinks that. Some liberals think that the working classes, in particular, are susceptible to tabloid baiting that plays on their vulnerable position. And yeah, that leads to racism, because fear of what's different is a deep-set human characteristic that is easily brought to the surface. But you've got more, far more, to fear from a conservative elite who believe that the working classes are actually sub-human trolls, beyond pity, and too stupid to lever themselves out of their destitute situation. To them, anyone who thinks the working classes have it hard in any way are automatically "bleeding hart liberals." ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

Aha. I was planning to invoke Senor MacJoyce, as he's the only person I know - and possibly the only chap in existence - to have written competent, funny and intelligent poetry on this subject. Perhaps he could provide a link, but I recall his cracking barb: Who's the least racist? Let's have a race! All line up for the Self-Righteous Steeplechase! I must admit, when I saw the title of this thread I thought 'Now come on, Mark, what kind of poem could possibly justify such an insult?' I wonder no longer, although I'm pretty sure Biggus would view all contributors to this thread as knee-jerk liberal thought police. Frankly, as long as it scans and demonstrates an aptitude for metre, rhyme and cadence, I don't give a toss about a poem's sentiment. If I disagree with it, well fine, that's part of the dialectic of creative writing and I reserve the right to pen a retort or simply call you a pimply twat-face. What offends me about Biggus' work is that he's totally shit at writing, yet massively prolific. As if seeing creakingly ancient jokes shoehorned into couplets - and somehow rendered even less funny - wasn't affront enough, he's managed to add a generous layer of stupid bigotry. With so little cognitive activity in evidence, I feel involving the Thought Police might be overkill.

Rokkit's right - this thread has moved away from the poem and onto something more at home in the General Discussion forum. We should just agree that it is a shit poem and move on to something worth reviewing.

I notice that The Anonymous Enemy has had more reads than anything else that Biggus has posted. No publicity is bad publicity, as they say.

I think all of you must secretly like Biggus' work, much the same as people secretly like 'Big Brother'; otherwise you'd spend far less airtime on it...

Hi Mac, I'm interested in what you have to say here. Just wondered, though, if you could give a more particular definition of what you mean by *self-righteous middle-class liberal twats*... just so's I can get a better handle on the term. Cheers.

Oh, cry us a river, Macjoyce. It might flush away that big ole chip on your shoulder.

Not sarcasm in the least. I was just interested to see if, in your definition, you touched upon issues that I feel strongly about. Thankfully, not. See, it's quite a broad term. Covers a lot of ground. Many issues could be termed 'middle-class liberal', no? Environmentalism. Vegetarianism. Pacifism. They're not exclusively the preserve of the MCLs, but you could argue that much of the thinking behind them is MCL. I actually have a lot in common with your views. I guess I'm a bit more moderate on the 'hate' side of things, though. Shit... does that make me a MCL? I'm basically an anarchist, though I wouldn't want to wear the term as a badge. What's your views on things like 'The Big Issue'? Is it empowering, or is it a salve? This may seem to be getting away from the point of the thread, but there's an obvious connection with ABC.

Yeah. I don't go along with Class War or Black Flag. NVDA's basically my stance. I used to think of myself as an 'international socialist', then a 'green socialist' - but I find all these terms difficult and confining in the end. Just say 'outsider', and you'll get the idea. No ideology has all the answers. But you don't need anyone to tell you that, I guess. I doubt most MCLTs would know what a 'social nationalist' was if it kicked them in the teeth.

Paul, your definition of 'liberal' is markedly different to most people's I've encountered. Who exactly has claimed that all the working classes are racists and yobs who isn't a rich conservative? ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

I'm surprised Biggus hasn't replied yet lol. The poem was pretty bad though.

Biggus doesn't see most of us/our comments as worthy of his time. He's really here to cast his reader-net as far and wide as possible, rather than to be a part of the community. ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

"They just hate us for being us." Well, they don't really hate you at all - they just look down on you as incapable, scrounging, lazy, sub-human offal because it makes them feel like they're intelligent and enlightened. Much easy than actually striving for intelligence and enlightenment. People hate yobs and people hate chavs, for obvious reasons, and there is an insidious logic of defensive mockery that makes middle class people susceptible to stereotyping the white working classes. But come on! Your classic middle class liberal blatantly wants to *be* working class - they love that salt-of-the-earth, work-for-your-bread-and-butter bullshit. They romanticise it. They're racked with guilt about being given money by their parents and having it easy, because they're anti-authoritarian and don't want to feel like they've benefited from the system as it is. You know, people like Mike Skinner aren't even working class, are they? They just pretend. Then there are people who, fair enough, just don't understand the working class culture and are more comfortable with 'multiculturalism' because at least you can treat foreigners like foreigners. You don't have to worry if they think you're weird because they're funny little weirdoes themselves who can't even speak English properly, and they're usually a bit nervous and keep themselves to themselves. People associate 'working class'ness with being cocksure, patriotic, proud, loud in pubs, tough. It's harder to be comfortable with that. I mean, I've known plenty of working class people who're really nice. But when it comes to aggressive and twatty behaviour in public, the middle classes lose by a longshot. Sure, you get plenty of Beamer-driving idiots on their phones, and snotty people, but at least they're mostly quiet. You write plenty of poems urging the working classes not to act like geezers and to aspire to more - you know, equally, I could write poems urging the middle classes not to act like they own the place and to aspire to greater solidarity, but I just don't see a point in uniting people along class lines, according to my ideal of what that class should be like. I'd rather everyone united against all kinds of twattery everywhere. ~ I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe

"It seems to me that in the past, in decades gorn by, people did care about the working class, and were interested in societal forms other than capitalism." Well, yeah but that's primarily because a lot of people were working class. Nowadays very few people are genuinely working class. Most of the people commonly described as working class these days are from Marx's 'lumpen proletariat' - people in unskilled or semi-skilled jobs, or no jobs at all - and communists always hated these people just as much as liberals hate them now. The 'chav' thing is different, though. It's more aesthetic that economic. People are being criticised for wearing shell-suits and bling, being ignorant and similar stuff - stuff that generally doesn't bother me very much. In reality, many so called 'chavs' are - in terms of economic and social power - just as middle class as your average teacher or librarian.

Apologies here, I am unsure how this site is ran, and I am not familiar with biggus' works, however, personally I find it absolutely appalling how members of this site have said his poem is 'shit' without offering some constructive criticism. Yes, it may not be a sparkling poem, but it does raise several questions, the poem itself is thought provoking, the poet has succeeded here. To me, those who have said his/hers poem is 'shit' obviously does not fully understand the poets point of view, therefore it is the reader who is blind ... then again, the poet could be blamed for not expressing their poem fully. However, I could list many famous poems that do not make sense. As for this poem, I would say it was unique and it requires further analyses before a clear judgement can made.

Nick Sorry, but I'd say your comment needs further analysis to correct the grammar. I won't give you any clues, though. You should be able to spot the problems with a little work. Sorry to give such a shitty response, but writers need to understand the tools of their trade, just like anyone else. If you were an architect or a surgeon or a plumber, you wouldn't be able to get away with so many errors. Have a good Christmas, anyway... and welcome to the site.

MacJoyce (or McJoice, I like it) is Biggus. Two sides of the same warped coin.

Controversial, galfreda. I cofness I've not seen them in the same room but as romantic a notion as it is, they're not some Jekyll and Hyde double act who start ruses on the forums for pageviews. You only have to compare their uploads. I think it was possibly Jack-Cade, Spack and Rokkitnite who began a contest between themselves to write actually bad poetry in a serious tone, and just like singing in a realistically tone-deaf fashion, it's damned difficult to fake. To nip back to bukharinwasmyfavouritebolshevik's point, I agree completely. Being a chav is completely more aesthetic than it is purely a class thing anymore. We had a vote at uni a couple years back on whether or not to ban the chav themed lcr discos. My argument for the ban would be lack of imagination, but the basis for the ban-friendly crew's argument was that it was offensive and demeaning to the working classes that a bunch of middle-class uni kids should be able to take the piss out of them. Hmmm....so wearing a lot of flashy bling and sporting tacky Burberry and Louis Vuitton gear as status symbols is chavvy, is it? Step up 50 Cent, Snoop, The Beckhams ed al. Any of you lot hurting for the next Giro? Didn't think so.

Torture and death to bourgeois liberals. "ed al", Brighteyes? Surely you mean "et al". Who's Ed? I cofness I don't know. Shoulda kept up with that Latin homework. 50 Cent, Snoop and the Beckhams as aesthetes... now, there's a scary proposal. Next, they'll be saying Lily Allen can sing.

'not some Jekyll and Hyde double act who start ruses on the forums for pageviews'... heh heh heh heh heh. _I_ am the only Jekyll in the act, and a card-carrying bourgeois liberal. I will not die for the likes of you, McJoice, so teddibly solly.

Sniper, Hmm, may I ask what my shitty grammar has to do with Biggus' poem? Are you saying that people who make errors in their replies should not leave a response? If that's the case at least I am not the only one! If you wish to discuss my comment further, I am more than willing, however if you'd rather make comments about my grammar at least wait until I post a piece to be critted. I don't see you criticizing anybody else's comment, let me take a wild guess, you were unable to think of something constructive to say about my comment to help the author, may that be for or against the poem, so you decided a jibe at myself would be appropriate. I presume you enjoy kicking the new guy in the gut to see how far you can go -- I have a feeling I may enjoy myself here. I have had a great Christmas, I hope you enjoyed yours too. I wish you a Happy and carefree New Year.

"I don't see you criticizing anybody else's comment, let me take a wild guess, you were unable to think of something constructive to say about my comment to help the author, may that be for or against the poem," I think a writer as prolific and experienced as Biggus is unlikely to benefit from gentle suggestions about how he can improve his work. And someone writing as badly as Biggus but with a less unpleasant agenda wouldn't be treated quite so harshly. People are gratuitously offensive to Biggus because he has a gratuitously offensive literary persona. All that said, my basic position is that if you only want nice comments about your writing, you should probably only show it to friends and family and if you want to be guaranteed constructive criticism, there are paid professionals who provide that service- some of whom provide it at a quite reasonable rate.

Ahh, obviously I haven't read any of his other pieces, and I do not know how he responds to criticism. Thank you bukharinwasmyfa... for your words, that explains a lot! I was under the impression that people on this site did not give out constrictive criticism, yet delved in slating works. Apologies to all. This is why I asked in my other thread who to read... I am fully aware that some people are not interested in bettering themselves and they are best ignored -- I take it Biggus is one of these guys. Yet, I still feel simply saying 'it's crap' is a horrid thing to say without explaining why, and what you didn't like about it.

Ed, et. Stuff it, I like the sound of ed more and it's pretty much a dead language anyway, so I'm taking it upon myself to get it as wrong as I like. As for Latin homework, I cofness (sic) the closest I came was a class in GCSE Italian and one in German, so I'm more about the unds than the et. Honestly, though, Jekyll, you been Googling your name again?

All you need to know about Biggus is this: 1. His bad poetry mainly consists of bad jokes badly rewritten. 2. His essays are re-written (barely) chunks from the subject's Wiki or from some specialist site devoted to the subject. Plagiarism it is almost, (copy and paste any of his lines into Google and you will see). All you need to know about Jekyll is this: She is a woman pretending to be a man - check out the syntax.

If only Biggus could pretend. Are you pretending to be a man, radiodumbo? The gender-pretending thing is fascinating. Maybe the web is where we can all be transvestites to our heart's content. *readjusts prosthesis in virtual knickers*