Shilpa Shetty

I always found the indian ones to have a lot more elegance and manners than the british slags. Daddy, take the banana! Tomorrow it's Sunday! - Faust

You people actually watch that?

Seeing how many times you can smack your head against a wall before passing out would also pass some time, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I agree with Ben on this. I can't believe that even semi-intelligent people would want to waste a second of their precious time watching dog-shit like that.

I'd sooner watch dog shit. There's always got to be something else to do, Peps - even if it's sitting on the bog with a Dan Brown novel! Sudoku? Masturbation? Alcohol? Sex? Sleeping? Still... I suppose the programme gives Jade Goody a reason for continued existence. She certainly needs one. Interesting that's she's a CELEBRITY this time around. A real 21st century story of success. Rich and famous for being... nothing.

I occasionally watched the last one and utterly enjoyed the vicious, acid-tongued Pete Burns. I haven't bothered with this one at all; I'd rather watch CSI: Las Vegas. Okay, it's not brain surgery, either, but if I ever want to commit the perfect crime, now I know how to.

would that i were so elevated as to prefer banging my head against a wall or watching dog shit ... however ... i have been watching celebrity BB ... i do not claim the programme has any social or political value but last night i was gobsmacked to hear -not the vile rantings of jade goody- but the ex miss great britain saying that shilpa ought to 'fuck off home' and 'she can't speak proper english anyway' ... i am always shocked actually to hear racism expressed openly - recently i heard my uncle refer to someone as a 'paki' - many members of my family are unashamedly racist - not sure why i am so shocked as clearly it is present and thriving in our society ... seeing the gang culture inside 'the house' as danielle and jo tittered while jade ranted made me feel cold and i found myself thinking it is because they are thick ... but that is just my own prejudice? beg pardon for interrupting your watching of dog shit ...

I, like fish, am unapologetic about my watching of BB. I love reality television. In fact, I love anything with 'members of the public' on telly. It's always interesting. I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like people very much. People are always interesting, except when they're trying too hard to be interesting. I reckon at least. Cheers, Mark

"i do not claim the programme has any social or political value" What sort of value DOES it have? Sorry, I don't mean to sound high-minded, Ivoryfishbone - though I know I do. Lord knows, I've not really any reason to be. But I just don't see the point of BB at all. It's not even chewing gum for the eyes. I don't know what it is. Maybe someone could explain. "I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like people very much." I've never read such a heap of bollocks from someone of such clear intelligence. I guess it was said tongue-in-cheek, Mark.

alan ... you do sound high minded ... do you think that 'entertainment' or 'interest' are of no value? i can't quite work out your objections to BB - you don't see the point of it? what is the point of the simpsons? do you watch telly? can you give me an example of a programme which has a point?

I dunno, I genuinely am always interested to see what people do. No matter how controlled the format, or edited and mediated a programme is, little chinks of reality creep in. I really do like watching people. Even if they're trying to present a version of themselves, or make themselves something other than what they are. A natural voyeur? "Mark I, I am Mark" (Carl Boehm as Mark Lewis in Michael Powell's 'Pepping Tom') Cheers, Mark

I watched this once when I was in hospital and three of the other 6 occupants of my section of the ward wanted to (we were all confined to bed as we were recovering from ops at the time so I couldn't walk out) I turned my head I would consider claiming damages from the NHS for being subjected to it but since they were so nice in all other respects even letting me out to go to the pub, I'll forgive them. It IS dog-shit. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

"I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like people very much." Come on Mark, that's utter crap. And seeing the slating that most of the housemates are getting in the media, it seems to me that people who watch it don't like people very much. "The fascination is in noticing and observing (and discussing in online forums etc) the points at which the true reality creeps in and we really do see aspects of the housemates which are representative of their true natures." Why should I care about these people? What is it to me if Jade bloody Goody is or isn't a racist? I do what Cameron says (eeeek!) and turn off, as is my perogative. I watch 24 avidly - hardly high-brow - so i'm not preaching. I wouldn't tell anyone what to watch or otherwise, I'm just constantly surprised by how many people tune into the thing. Maybe I'm out of touch.

There is such an intellectual snobbery about reality TV, yet it is a natural progression, the people who watch want to be watched. TV for all! I have to agree with Mark i find it fascinating as as the facade slips and the real person comes through and though i don't watch every programme i do generally follow all of the BB's. The attack on Shilpa is a classic case of playground bullying and though i don't think any of the women are overtly racist they do so sum up how we pick on differences, be it intellect, colour or gender. In registration this morning i asked my class (14 year olds) what they thought and they scary thing is the majority sided with Jo, Danielle etc - and that Shilpa was too snobby and that is why she is picked on,none of them thought any of the comments were racist and they felt it unfair that Danielle got told off in last nights programme for just expressing her view. They even started to mock Shilpa, picking up on the fact she still has a curfew and lives with her parents and were unable to appreciate cultural differences. My class is predominantly white, middle class, and it really saddened me that all we do at schools to enhance tolerance etc seems wasted as these kids really don't think anything wrong has been done. What BB has done though is brought this sort of behaviour into the spotlight and that is a good thing because if my students think that then the chances are their parents do, and debate about this insiduous treatment of those that are different needs to be openly discussed, becuase a lot of people don't even realise the damaging effect it can have. Long live BB!!! .Juliet

""I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like people very much." Horse before cart. I don't like to watch BB because it makes me not like people very much. Interacting with people directly, as opposed to through the medium of television and newspapers, leads me to a warmer assessment of my fellow man. Conversely, I'd suggest that a lot of people watch BB because it leaves them feeling fairly superior.

i think you are very right there Jack, i watch super nanny because it makes me feel like a good parent. Juliet

I suppose, to clarify my point, I didn't mean that people who don't like Big Brother dislike people (although I can see how it may have been understood as such). What I meant was I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like trying to understand people very much. I notice that people who claim to dislike reality television are often people who claim to dislike gossip, another activity that involves trying to make sense of what other people do, and having to deal with the reality of what people are like rather than what you would hope they were like. I like gossip, too. Cheers, Mark

Still don't buy it. I studied psychology in a misguided attempt to learn about why people do what they do. And I do like a bit of gossip. And BB doesn't tick those boxes for me.

what is happening now in BB couldn't be more psychological if it tried, it is classic ingroup/ outgroup behaviour (see work of Tajfel, Sheriff) and demonstrates the power of a natural desire to categorise and stereotype, which is a vital skill if we are to function in complex social environments, but can lead to prejudice and discrimmination. Juliet

All human behaviour couldn't be more psychological if it tried. It doesn't require a bunch of non-celebrities and a phone-in vote system.

From the Beeb: "Contestant Danielle Lloyd has also hit out at the Bollywood star, saying Shetty should just "go home" and added that "she can't even speak English properly". For me, that's more than 'ignorance'. Apparantly this Danielle character and Goody have been 'ganging up' on SS. I find it ironic DL would say that, seeing her mate JG can't speak English properly herself.

"alan ... you do sound high minded ... do you think that 'entertainment' or 'interest' are of no value?" No, of course not. You're right to point it out, of course, and I'll admit I'm being completely subjective about it. It doesn't entertain or interest me - but then, that's me. I don't regard it as having psychological interest, or as about revealing useful things about human nature and interaction. I see it as a bunch of talentless narcissists who can't become famous for anything else, so they'll do it by making dicks of themselves on the telly. If you like, though, that's my prejudice, and I'll accept it as that. We're all the same, though. We've all got things we find pointless and stupid depending our own tastes and interests. BB's a big one, though. There don't seem to be many grey areas of opinion with it. People either seem to love it or hate it. Just read this thread! "i can't quite work out your objections to BB - you don't see the point of it? what is the point of the simpsons?" Again, I'll admit it's subjective. I'd personally rather see more decent drama on the TV. Clearly, it ain't what brings in the ratings, though - which is what TV is really all about. BB's ratings have declined, but it's still obviously a big draw. People moan incessantly about the standard of the soaps, and the dumbing down of the storylines. But they pull in the millions and they make the bunce. More than enough people seem to like them. It's horses for courses. The Simpsons? Well. Try starting a thread with the title 'The Simpsons is pointless and crap' and see what it stirs up. I don't think the two programmes bear any comparison. There's intelligence behind The Simpsons, for one thing - but that's just me being high-minded again. "do you watch telly? can you give me an example of a programme which has a point?" No. I haven't had a telly for 4 years. I got rid of my last set because of the growth and proliferation of reality and lifestyle programmes and game shows like 'Who Wants To Be...' and 'Deal or No Deal'. I was watching it less and less and in the end it was just taking up useful space. I catch up with the decent stuff I miss - 6 Feet Under, ER, The Sopranos, The Simpsons, feature films - with DVDs. I don't feel I'm missing out. I'm sure people will disagree, though. "All human behaviour couldn't be more psychological if it tried. It doesn't require a bunch of non-celebrities and a phone-in vote system." Right, Ben. I used to see plenty just travelling on public transport, working in shops and offices, and going to pubs and clubs. Living my daily life, really.

"I can’t imagine Danielle or Jade rushing off to join the BNP any time soon." They're exactly the kind of people who would vote for the BNP if they lived in an area where racial tensions were high. People do it out of an attitude of, "I don't have anything against these people, but enough is enough." "What I meant was I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like trying to understand people very much." The problem is that it is all too understandable. We know why people behave this way. We've seen it all before. We know that humans are capable of much worse things too. And there are more powerful depictions of this kind of behaviour, where the viewer can't hide behind the idea that they're only watching a group of attention-seeking losers. BB is depressing because, in its immersiveness, it gives you no hope whatsoever that significant numbers of people are capable of overcoming their human failings. It inspires a total loathing for the human condition.

"What I meant was I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like trying to understand people very much." Sorry, Mark - that's still a load of cobblers. If attempts to understand people hinged upon a liking for reality TV, then we're doomed as a species. I find people immensely and unendingly fascinating. I've spent most of my life observing people in all sorts of situations and analysing their actions and motives. Surely, at the base level, it's the one thing that anyone has to do if they want to write. You may as well say that anyone who doesn't want to write, or who protests a disliking of literature, doesn't like trying to understand people very much. That would be a helluva lot of people (given that reading is apparently a minority pursuit). Maybe that's why the world's in such a state.

One person who I think has emerged well from all this is Jermaine. He seems to have a level of maturity and solidity about him which is sadly lacking in most of the other housemates, and of course in his more famous brother. As for the Shilpa Jade thing I think it's getting dangerously close to racism. I also find it fairly unpleasant to watch. Bullying of any kind is really distasteful. Jade has no business being in there. She is a symbol of all that is wrong with modern celebrity culture. What sort of message does her success send out to kids studying hard for their GCSEs. Why bother when you can be a talentless moron who makes ignorant remarks on TV and be greatly rewarded for it.

"People who protest that reality TV is pointless fail to understand that it provides a platform through which the viewers of such may vicariously understand their own natures…?" Or they already understand what aspects of their own nature's BB has the potential to shed light on and don't like it to be endlessly reinforced.

"Jade has no business being in there. She is a symbol of all that is wrong with modern celebrity culture. What sort of message does her success send out to kids studying hard for their GCSEs. Why bother when you can be a talentless moron who makes ignorant remarks on TV and be greatly rewarded for it." Be happy Brooosh, this may prove her downfall. If there's one thing the general public seem to detest it's bullies, racist or not. We should all celebrate that three pretty much talentless 'celebraties' 'careers; will now be pretty much over. nobody

I suppose it could be argued that Jade's provided employment. There was a whole series a short while back, wasn't there, based on trying to find one 'lucky' person to be her PA? She could have just placed an ad in the Job Centre, of course - but that wouldn't have been good TV, would it.

' ...I think that people who protest their dislike of reality telly don't like people very much. .. ' The point you're missing Mark, is BB ISN'T reality TV at all. If it WAS reality there would have been a few bloody noses by now, if what I read in the papers is true. NOBODY in their right mind would in reality even want to spend time with the rag-bag assortment of characters the makers assemble. In fact, they deliberately assemble people they KNOW will hate each other in a sad attempt to stimulate exactly the kind of behaviour that's transpired. It's the same thinking that put that arsehole Jeremy Beadle on TV. 'Let's make lots of money out of peoples misery and vulnerabilities.' To be honest I think that anyone that wanted to take part is either so broke they need the money, or else they are vain, egotistical wankers. The programme (and all like it) deserves to sink into the cesspit it's made and be banned. What I would love to see is the makers and contestants prosecuted for their behaviour.

"The programme (and all like it) deserves to sink into the cesspit it's made and be banned." I'm never sure what cesspit reality TV has spawned. I like the fact that we can now see the sweating plump man who operates the puppets. People have always become famous for things other than strict merit. I reckon it'd be "instructive to compare TV schedule like for like between now and the 'golden age'. There is more telly, and more space to fill, so there probably is more shite, but previously there was space and less programmes, and still some shite. "The point you're missing Mark, is BB ISN'T reality TV at all." George, no telly is reality telly. It's all mediated, and shaped and chosen. We know that. 'Reality telly' describes the genre to which it belongs. "I suspect… that perhaps… what Mr Brown was getting at was… People who protest that reality TV is pointless fail to understand that it provides a platform through which the viewers of such may vicariously understand their own natures…?" No that's not what I mean Pepsoid. I mean that people who protest too much about not liking reality telly don't really like looking at others they may or may not agree with and seeing what makes them tick and how they behave. Celebrity BB is interesting to much as much for how participants rationalise their own actions as it is for the actions themselves. The fact that is some people on telly doing not much is why, to me, it's interesting. The fact that the people assembled are outlandish is interesting as well. I don't really know anyone like Cleo or Jade or even Jo, so it's interesting to see how they all interact. Cheers, Mark

This is all just a fuss whipped up as publicity, right? I don't know. I don't watch it (after watching some of the first series of big brother I formed the very strong opinion that I didn't want to watch any more, and have not), but this is just your basic bullying isn't it? Nobody's made a racist remark that couldn't have been misconstrued. Or maybe I missed something. And those people are NOT celebrities!

"I mean that people who protest too much about not liking reality telly don't really like looking at others they may or may not agree with and seeing what makes them tick and how they behave." Sorry, Mark - however you choose to rephrase it, it's still gonads. In fact, it's almost insulting. It's still tantamount to saying 'people who don't like reality TV aren't interested in human behaviour and interaction.' Living as part of a family, with all the strife and disagreements that entails, is surely enough of a daily experience to give one some idea about what makes people tick and why they behave as they do. Then there are workplaces. Clubs. AA meetings. Evening classes. Sports meetings. Parties. Any other form of human 'community' you care to mention. I don't like watching BB because I have better things to do with my time than watch what are - in my opinion, I stress - a bunch of twats being a bunch of twats. I don't need anyone to tell me it's 'cos I ain't got any interest in human psychology and human behaviour.

' ...no telly is reality telly... ' Sorry to disagree with you again Mark, but there is a remarkable amount of reality in some TV shows, most notably the stunning series that David Attenborough makes. Ok, it's edited, but what you see is real. ' ...'Reality telly' describes the genre to which it belongs. ...' If that is the case, then it's got to be the most inaccurate description of a TV genre ever. I think 'Dog-shit TV' is far more accurate. Alan has it right. Pissful, there are many things I 'know', not because I have inside information, but because I have eyes, and experience of human behaviour, and understand what programme makers need to do to attract viewers. The main ingredients tend to be sex, violence or humour. There's very little to laugh at as far as I can make out by putting a group of obnoxious characters in a house, and then, (by all accounts), telling the more intelligent ones they have to be 'slaves' to the thickest morons present. That smacks of 'emotional violence'. By putting a stunningly beautiful Indian woman in the same house as an ugly, illiterate bitch and allowing her to be abused there's also a degree of sado-sexism. You work it out.

From the interweb: - A widely known person; "he was a baseball celebrity" - Celebrity is an album by the pop boy band *NSYNC. Criteria for being a celebrity. Let's see: 1. Doesn't do "reality TV" I'd add this too: It's not "once a celeb, always a celeb". Face from the A Team was a celeb in the 80s. No more. See also: Jermaine Jackson.

Well it appears the whole shower of crap are getting their just desserts. Contracts dropped left right and centre, and Carphone Warehouse, (ever mindful that they could lose sales and see their share price go into free-fall), have withdrawn sponsorship. It even looks like it's provoked a minor 'international' crisis, with Mahatma Gordi joining in on his premature 'coronation' tour. Christ, I despise that bastard. I'd still like to see the programme makers and broadcasters prosecuted.

I'm sceptical that anyone I haven't heard of is famous.

"I'm sceptical that anyone I haven't heard of is famous." That seems reasonable. Interesting on Question Time to see Edwina Currie jumping to Shilpa's defence by aiming a class-based misogynistic slur at the three bullies - at which point the audience roared their approval and Shami Chakrabarti buried her head in her hands. Clearly the culprits are ignorant - in its true sense - rather than the followers of a white supremicist political agenda. The stuff they've come out with is low level racism but it's considerably tamer than the sort of stuff you'd hear on a daily basis in the apparently harmoniusly multi-racial London playgrounds of my school days. It's not going to encourage 'the kids' to anything they're not doing already. It might even make more thoughtful kids think a bit more about what they're doing. What is suprising is that the three bullies - particularly the lady from S-Club - aren't able to understand the likely consequences of expressing unpleasant sentiments that they will often have got away with expressing in private and in the bar in front of audience of millions.