S O P A could they see beyond their nose?

31 posts / 0 new

Topic locked

Thu, 2012-01-19 21:23

I see there is a now a fear and dread that this bill that originates from the USA, is about to devastate the Internet.
Is this the case I ask myself, yes it will make it difficult to download Pirate material but not impossible.
Yes it will have the USA poking it's nose in worldwide to other peoples business, that would be nothing really new there then would it .
Yes when and If they pass the bill it is going to cost the USA Billions in advertising revenue losses, due to the fact they will be removing all the sites that normal people view.
The Internet is adorned with advertising from all directions, you can barely click on anything that won't have a Pop up attached .
Thankfully if this bill passes that will cease because there will be no point spending all that money on a media NO ONE WILL USE .
I hear many of you saying that this will be just moved to gaming sites, maybe but not everyone can afford the silly charges made by these sites, and many free gaming sites will also fall foul of SOPA after all games are copyrighted too.
So revenue will decrease due to the fact that people who pay for a service will expect it to be advertisement free, I certainly would and positively would not waste my hard earned cash on a site that could not guarantee this .
No it seems to me that this has been a lobby by the Television and Film Industry that has not been truly thought out .
I for one look forward to seeing films on the net, it shows me what the film is like and if I enjoy it I usually can't wait to see it at the Cinema.
As Far as You Tube is concerned there is ample copyright free material for them to broadcast without falling prey to this bill, and the talent displayed on You Tube by some original free filmmakers is excellent.
Another fact the Film industry for one should have considered, technology in home computing has developed so much over the years, with some filming techniques a studio is not required .
Placing Places like Paramount , MGM , Warner's , and others on a very slippery slope to Oblivion, their greed and lust for the almighty dollar may just be their downfall here.
They will have to remember that the people are not as stupid as they may like to think, we all know where this legislation is being funded from.
They will also have to remember that the public have long memories, and don't forgive that easily.
So What do you think ?

Fri, 2012-01-20 09:04

Mangone

You make some good points Clive and I agree that if the worst comes to the worst we should all remember just who was responsible - particularly Murdoch. You only need to look at the most popular thread on ABC's 'general discussion' forum to see how much Youtube has become part of our culture as a library of popular music and, as the vast majority of the footage must be subject to copyright, I can't see how that would survive any sort of legislation that would close down sites that allow free access to such material. I can't really understand the fuss as copying copyrighted material has been going on ever since the invention of the tape recorder and the broadcast of music on the radio... No-one ever seems to have suggested that radio stations playing copyright material should be banned but rather such broadcasts were encouraged because they stimulated sales. Many people nowadays have DVD recorders connected to their TV and Sky actually includes a programme recorder that can stream to a DVD recorder in many of its set top boxes so you can watch one film while recording another... so surely more copyrighted films are illegally copied thanks to the hypocrite Rupert Murdoch than thanks to those he calls "Silicon Valley paymasters who threaten all software creators with piracy". I suggest that there is no morality involved and it is simply that, as a middleman, he is making money from one but not from the other. No doubt he will cash in eventually with the 'Fox Guide To Pirate Treasure - Forbidden Gold' ;O)

Fri, 2012-01-20 10:26

Clive-Pearson

I find it grossly hypocrtical that he should have had the nerve to push a legality bill, the man has shown utter contempt for the law constantly. We only have to see that if he thinks it will make him money,flouting the law is an acceptable thing. Now he tries to invoke his will on the rest of us just so he can make more money, the man is a Pariah and should be evicted from the Planet. Or at least sent on a prolonged boat ride, like the other Media Tyrant Maxwell. But I don't think he realise how badly this could backfire on him and his shareholders, as people not only stop using the net but also the ISP companies that will loose customers as a result.

Fri, 2012-01-20 10:36

Clive-Pearson

Another point I just thought of in honesty, does the American justice department think that sites that are from Russia, and The Peoples Republic of China,are going to take any notice of them and stop posting films .Especially those that make them money through sites like Movies Online etc, if they do then they are more deluded than I could have ever conceived.

Fri, 2012-01-20 13:31

andrea

'...in honesty, does the American justice department think that sites that are from Russia, and The Peoples Republic of China,are going to take any notice of them and stop posting films...' Sadly Clive, I think they do. These guys were based in Hong Kong and employees were arrested in New Zealand at the 'request of US officials.' http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-01-19/megaupload-feds-shutd... "The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which defends free speech and digital rights online, said in a statement that, "This kind of application of international criminal procedures to Internet policy issues sets a terrifying precedent. If the United States can seize a Dutch citizen in New Zealand over a copyright claim, what is next?" Indeed. http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Fri, 2012-01-20 16:00

Clive-Pearson

Well in that case we can be assured that Orwell was right, Seems the USA is trying to do what Hitler tried to do in WWII. The only difference is they are using commerce instead of Bombs, lawyers instead of soldiers, and greed for justification. Fairly soon it will be that anyone writing something bad about the USA will be arrested, and if that is not Political Tryanie then what is . I would like to know what gives the USA the right to request anyone's arrest for laws in their country, that had not been passed or sanctioned by the people of the country they are making the request to. But again typical of them wanting to tell everyone else how to live their lives. I have always respected the Americans but am quickly becoming somebody who is starting to think, it would have been better for us all if the Mayflower had sunk ?

Fri, 2012-01-20 17:15

tcook

Whilst not quite going along with some of the rhetoric on this thread I must admit to having great worries about SOPA. I fear for the future of this site and any others that allow people to post their own work. It is especially difficult for us as we cannot possibly afford to have 'internet guardians' online 24/7 checking everything that is posted as it comes on. I fear that the implications of this law have not been thought through and it will have far reaching and very damaging consequences.

Fri, 2012-01-20 20:00

Clive-Pearson

This is what we all fear tcook and it may be that it will just be used to protect copyright, but somehow I doubt it .

Sat, 2012-01-21 05:23

Mangone

I'm not sure that this is really about copyright but more about profit and control... Wikileaks frightened a lot of people in power and the response was to cut their funding by making it clear to financial institutions that dealing with Wikileaks would be 'frowned upon' by the 'powers that be'... This, in my opinion, was likely to be just one more abuse of the ever growing powers that govenments gift to themselves in the name of fighting terrorism: banks were 'pressured' into not dealing with a group of people, essentially, because they were telling inconvienient TRUTHs! I'm surprised that a similar approach hasn't been suggested to deal with online piracy... My feeling is that this new legislation is more about controlling the internet than anything else... just added fire power to the already overwhelming arsenal of Big Brother. Although these bills don't seem to directly address freedom of speech you can bet that they would be used indirectly toward that end just as the banking legislation was against Wikileaks. As I've said before, you only need to see how the powers created, ostensibly, to deal with terrorism have been used and abused in many areas totally unconnected to terrorism to realise just how great the dangers of extending the Big Brother approach over the Internet would be! As Andrea points out - even without this new legislation the fact that people in various parts of the world can, in effect, be subject to American laws is already a bridge too far! The good news is that huge opposition has at least forced the proponents of these bills, known as PIPA (PROTECT IP Act) in the Senate and SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) in the House, to rethink their approach. "U.S. lawmakers stopped anti-piracy legislation in its tracks on Friday, delivering a stunning win for Internet companies that staged an unprecedented online protest this week to kill the previously fast-moving bills." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/uk-congress-internet-idUKTRE80J...

Sat, 2012-01-21 09:53

#10

Clive-Pearson

I know that any new Law will meet with resistance from some quarter or another, but sooner or later we have seen that regardless of what the people really want, it is passed because it is what the corporations or the Politicians want. We all have to expect that sooner or later this bill or one like it will become US law. What annoys me more than anything is that like Andrea pointed out,and Mangone also commented on the USA are imposing their will on the rest of the World. Laws are made for the country they are passed in, and should not carry any weight in any other country, unless agreed Globally. The Arrest of the Dutch person in New Zealand was wrong, what if Iran or Syria demanded the extradition of someone under their Shari Law would the USA comply ? I don't think so somehow because they would not be able to assert the bullying tactics the US would.

Sat, 2012-01-21 11:38

#11

Mangone

It is worth saying a bit more about the Megaupload bust... mostly cobbled together from this article. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-01-20/megaupload-arrests-FB... Megaupload.com has 150 million registered users, about 50 million hits daily and endorsements from music superstars. The U.S. indictment said founder Dotcom made $42 million last year alone by charging subscriptions to people who wanted access to faster download speeds or extra content and by selling advertising. The movie industry has fought against the site, saying it is making money off pirated material. Although the company is based in Hong Kong and Dotcom was living in New Zealand, some of the alleged pirated content was hosted on leased servers in Virginia, and that was enough for U.S. prosecutors to act. "If legitimate content is housed on the same service that might have infringing content, it gets sucked into this vortex and it's gone..." says Dennis Fisher, security blogger at Threatpost.com. Makes you think twice about cloud computing! From my understanding of how Megaupload.com worked it would seem that the actual illegal activities were in fact commited by the users and that, in a sense, holding Megaupload.com as responsible is similar to holding the postal service responsible for shipping their customers dodgy DVDs rather than the customers for posting them... Maybe that's why the money laundering and racketeering charges were leveled so as to have an offence that is specific to Dotcom, or Megaupload rather than its registered users. It is a mystery to me why anyone making over 40 million dollars a year would risk money laundering. 'Al Hilwa, an analyst at research firm IDC, says defining who is responsible for strictly obeying copyright laws is at the heart of the piracy issue. "Shifting that responsibility to the technology providers, networks, hosters and intermediate service providers who make up the file-transfer chain would mean burdening them with escalating costs. That would make them uncompetitive and hurt their growth."' An interesting point is made that as the US law enforcement officers were able to coordinate internationally to take action against Megaupload it demonstrates that the current laws targeting copyright violators work... So why the need for more laws?

Sat, 2012-01-21 13:30

#12

andrea

From my understanding of how Megaupload.com worked it would seem that the actual illegal activities were in fact commited by the users and that, in a sense, holding Megaupload.com as responsible is similar to holding the postal service responsible for shipping their customers dodgy DVDs rather than the customers for posting them... and My feeling is that this new legislation is more about controlling the internet than anything else... just added fire power to the already overwhelming arsenal of Big Brother. Although these bills don't seem to directly address freedom of speech you can bet that they would be used indirectly toward that end just as the banking legislation was against Wikileaks. Couldn't agree more, Mangone and I've said exactly the same thing elsewhere, albeit in slightly different words. http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Sat, 2012-01-21 14:15

#13

Mangone

Great minds think alike Andrea ;O)

Sat, 2012-01-21 17:47

#14

jay2143

What great minds? Writers and musicians need to live. So those who want everything for nothing must control? Never!! Don't let the lazy win the game!!

Sat, 2012-01-21 22:11

#15

andrea

It's not about copyright issues, Jay, it's about freedom of speech and freedom of the internet. And the fact that the US seem to think it's okay to demand (and get!) extradition of non-US citizens residing in countries other than the US to the US for trial and (probable) imprisonment. And what did you think you were doing when you made that cassette, or burned that CD, or copied something from the radio, way before there even was internet, never mind Pirate Bay or Megaupload? http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Sun, 2012-01-22 09:16

#16

Mangone

I have to say that I was quite shocked to hear of the lengths that the New Zealand police were willing to go to in their arrest of Dotcom! I’ve heard that he was in his mansion inside a specially designed ‘safe room’ and the police and FBI (I’m not sure why they were there) broke into his mansion and burned through several special locks to get to him! Obviously this must be about more than copyright infringement… but it does make you wonder that if we started spreading rumours that it was really President Bashar al-Assad who was the real ‘king pin’ behind Megaupload whether then, finally, the US might send a crack team into Syria to bring him to justice… The main charges : Racketeering, money laundering, aiding Iran. Secondary charge : causing the deaths of thousands of his own people.

Sun, 2012-01-22 10:03

#17

Mangone

A quick Google found this : "Dozens of police officers, with helicopters flying overhead, broke into Dotcom's mansion..." "Dotcom was one of four men arrested in an investigation of the massive file-sharing website led by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, but he wasn't cooperative in the slightest, Reuters reports." http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/megaupload-kim-dotcom-arrest-sopa-... So, were the FBI present at all the arrests? Makes you wonder under exactly which law the FBI can go to foreign countries and break into peoples homes for alleged copyright infringement... at least it's not the CIA - yet... By the way Jay. Thank you for reminding us that all this is simply about protecting the starving artists whose welfare is the real concern of the big media conglomerates... We do tend to forget what kind, compassionate, capitalists, media moguls like dear Rupert really are. It's so heart warming to see him giving money to struggling actors, like Jude Law, to help pay their phone bills.

Sun, 2012-01-22 11:16

#18

Clive-Pearson

Everything else aside I just feel that people are going to be so wary of the Internet, now it will slowly die as we presently know it. After all these are the things we know now. The USA and other countries have dedicated departments, watching the internet and individuals. These departments already intercept e mails and personal messages under the guise of Anti-Terrorism. Not only Governments but corporations, the very corporations that are trying to push this bill through. As A result of intercepted data people are now being arrested, and tried for crimes that are not illegal in their own countries but illegal in others. We already know that the Internet is a difficult instrument to use safely, watching for predators pedophiles thieves con men and other charming figures. But now we have to watch out for our own governments. I for one am considering the usefulness of the internet to my own personal lifestyle, is it worth all the hassle and the expense. I can see many people especially the older generations, who have been encouraged by local government advertising to get on to the Internet staying away all together. Internet service providers are probably going to see an increase in disconnections and falling installations as a result of this bill . After all if not Facebook, movies, games and other entertainment that will be affected by this is stopped then what is it useful for, apart from shopping and you can do that from your TV . How soon will it be that we realise the Internet is not as indispensable as they would like to have us believe.

Sun, 2012-01-22 12:56

#19

andrea

Makes you wonder under exactly which law the FBI can go to foreign countries and break into peoples homes for alleged copyright infringement... Precisely. And Clive, we've always had to watch out for our own governments... http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Sun, 2012-01-22 14:11

#20

Mangone

It’s up to us, the users of the Internet, to fight to make it what we want it to be, Clive. The good news is that there are big guns on both sides so we should be able to tip the balance in our favour!

Sun, 2012-01-22 16:01

#21

Clive-Pearson

That's very true Andrea but to be truthful in this country (United Kingdom) we have never had to fear them, had I been a citizen of the USA at the moment I think my instinct would be to emigrate and quickly. They seem intent on controlling the world, and all who disagree with them are treated with dire consequences. Yes Mangone we do have big guns on our side too, my only fear is that we don't have the same access to the right ammunition.

Sun, 2012-01-22 16:03

#22

Clive-Pearson

And to think what we all feared for decades was Communism, maybe what we should have been afraid of more is Americanism ?

Mon, 2012-01-23 07:48

#23

Mangone

It's certainly ironic that Capitalism is presently so dependent on Communism! Let's hope on this New Years Day that the Year of the Dragon is a great one for all... since Chinese dragons are water dragons let's hope it brings increased liquidity ;O) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16675356

Mon, 2012-01-23 12:38

#24

Mangone

I notice that the BBC is reflecting pretty much the same 'take' as this thread. However, the article linked below does give a better insight into the charges leveled at MegaUpload. Essentially the US Justice Department claims that "The conspirators allegedly paid users whom they specifically knew uploaded infringing content, and publicised their links to users (through third party sites) throughout the world" NB. These links were not publicised on Megaupload. Perhaps this explains the 'suddenness' of the bust, a hope to find evidence that links MegaUpload to financial payments made to the specific up loaders 'cohorts'. Personally, I can't see why MegaUpload would need to pay people to upload anything and I suspect that the charge might be an 'invention' to facilitate the bust in the first place... Meanwhile "The US Chamber of Commerce has defended the proposed (Sopa) laws saying that enforcement agencies "lack the tools" to effectively apply existing intellectual property laws to the digital world." "Neither of the (Sopa) bills are close to being passed - they need further revision. But it appears that officials are able to use existing tools to go after a business alleged to be inducing piracy," said Gartner's media distribution expert Mike McGuire. "It begs the question that if you can find and arrest people who are suspected to be involved in piracy using existing laws, then why introduce further regulations which are US-only and potentially damaging?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16642369 Of course many of us have been extremely shocked to discover just how wide-reaching US regulations really are!

Tue, 2012-01-24 21:38

#25

Clive-Pearson

I would still like to see the USA try to extradite a legal deportation of a suspect from China, especially if the guy is wealthy. In China they have no love for the Americans or their political beliefs.

Wed, 2012-01-25 05:38

#26

Mangone

To some extent that was part of the reason behind my little joke about sorting out the 'problem' in Syria, Clive. Well, that and the difference in political will between arresting people who costs the US money and those who don't. In fact it is difficult to see how the US has managed the internal transformation of the War in Iraq from a proactive invasion (based on lies) to rid Iraq of WMD to a fight for the freedom of Iraqi people. If the Us really cares so much about Dreamocracy why isn't it invading Syria as 'we speak'? As you rightly say these 'regulations' only really apply to 'pals' of the US but as you will almost certainly have noticed it seems to be a one-way street.

Wed, 2012-01-25 14:01

#27

andrea

'... If the US really cares so much about Dreamocracy why isn't it invading Syria as 'we speak'?...' - Zimbabwe, too, springs to mind. (Oh, no oil!) http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukauthors.com

http://www.ukapress.com

Wed, 2012-01-25 20:46

#28

Clive-Pearson

Spot on Andrea

Wed, 2012-01-25 20:49

#29

Clive-Pearson

I do however applaud their actions in saving the two Aid workers in a daring raid on the Somalian Pirates. Well done Yanks nice work.

Thu, 2012-01-26 03:56

#30

Mangone

Yes, and one of the Aid workers wasn't even American :O)

Thu, 2012-02-02 13:16

#31

Mangone

It seems likely that Mitt Romney will not be supporting SOPA legislation if he makes president as he seems to have no regard for copyright… A Canadian based Rapper, K’Naan, is seeking legal action against Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney who has used his song “Wavin’ Flag” without permission. Romney used the song in his recent victory speech after ‘pulverising’ his so called ‘close rival’ Newt Gingrich in the Florida primary… The musician said Mr Romney's campaign did not seek approval to use the song and that he would not have granted permission if it had. K'Naan added that he would happily grant President Barack Obama's campaign the use of the song. Maybe Mitt is hoping that the many millions of disgruntled MegaUpload fans will see his disdain for copyright as a reason to vote for him ;O) Of course Mitt might simply have become ‘strapped for cash’ having, reportedly, spent more than $15,000,000 over the last month alone - funding 13,000 TV 'attackisements' mostly attacking Gingrich (who could only manage 200 in return) - so perhaps Romney simply couldn't afford to pay poor K'Naan. The most baffling thing about Republican politicians is they say they love their country and yet do everything they possibly can in the effort to pay the lowest amount of taxes... except when they run for office when they will happily spend mega millions trying to become president while maintaining there is nothing in it for them ;O) Perhaps the best GOP candidate is no longer the most right wing they think they can get elected President but now the richest that wants to get elected.

Topic locked