When does poetry become prose?

Prose is a poem that burst the tape in the 100 metre sprint and was last seen legging it over two fields and a river.

you may superimpose prose over my toes but my donkey wee wee will run free ly

Oooh, good question, Jake although, unfortunately, I haven't got a clue...pass this one over to Andrew and Fish. Both sides of the fence, so to speak... Although Cohen's books (especially 'Beautiful Losers') are always described as prose poetry. Ditto Andre Gide.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!! I was just gonna post something similar. Well we have poetry, is gotta kinda of rhyme, some would disagree, but it should. We have prose which is a cop-out poem coz ya can't make it rhyme, but to good to scrap. Then we have a Rant, which is about things that get to ya, which can mix poerty and prose. Hope this makes it all clear.

Huh, not fond of your definition at all, Muz...Clive. What do you mean, a cop-out poem!? The cheek of it! Andrew to the resuce, I feel... (Mind you, have a helluva job to make mine rhyme, 'tis true)

Well thats what my MUM said. "OOOh this modern poerty don't rhym, Mr Hardy would be turning in his box, (Mum paused for breath) coz when he wrote poetry that never had rhym he called them prose" So Andrea blame my Mum

When Andrew Motion writes it, it is poetry, I think. Is it? Greetings to all, Reinardina.

When it has complete sentences ? Or, for Eric - when the writer really has to start thinking about apostrophes ? I am interested to hear from poets on a sub-theme - why when the idea comes do you write a poem rather than a very short story ? I'm not having a pop, or making any value judgments, I'm just interested. My mind doesn't operate that way at all. *or in any other, he says ruefully*

gawd andrew you get the prize for asking difficult questions ... it is v. hot and my brain is not working ... however along the lines of "i never know what i'm thinking till i've heard what i've got to say" i am going to attempt an answer ... possibly it is to do with the voice the idea comes in ... i will generally have a thought which will coalesce into a phrase and it might trouble me for a while ... or it might be something i have seen or overheard ... but the phrase might come back to me ... then i will write it down ... i will know almost from the feel of it - how it sounds - whether it is a poem in the making or if it is the beginning of a short story ... a poem expresses something differently than even a very short story might ... it could recreate a feeling, create a mood, express a thought ... whereas for me a story ought have certain elements (conflict, crisis, climax resolution, change) whatever its length ... (not saying here that mine DO they just OUGHT to) ... perhaps i begin a story when i have more to say wordwise - whereas a good poem is a concentration of language ... oh dear i don't think i have explained it at all well ... more beer for me i think ...

I think you've explained it brilliantly, Fish. I've come to the sad conclusion that my thoughts aren't 'concentrated' enough - back to the ginko...(and beer).

... on further reflection i have decided that there are also prose "phases" and poetry "phases" ... and i tend to write one or the other ... ... the other factor which seems slightly silly ... is the size of my notebook ... i have two on the go at the moment - an A5 ( a plain paper ring bound lovely thick one) which i have been using most of this year ... it does not lend itself well to prose ... and another A4 one (lined) ... when i was recently set a prose writing task i found myself hunting under the bed for the A4 one ... hmmmmm ... i think i'll stop going on now ... otherwise i will be revealing all my strange obsessions ...

i think the intention is where the definition resides, or perhaps in the execution of the words, and i have seen poetry on the internet that genuinely executes words, but when i sit and write poetry, i know its poetry, because of the intense focus i bring to the emotion, meaning and aesthetics of the work, when i write prose, any old tat will do to get me from this paragraph to the next, and in each paragraph i can slyly evoke some poetic moment, sneaked in like half bottles of smirnoff into some rip off club... but anyway. enough waffle. i just think reducing the definition to form, to rhyming not rhyming, to enjambement or whatever you call it, i think you can't possibly take refuge in that as a credible definition...its too anal, too meagre, too bloody mervyn bragg for my liking... but then. i am a thoroughly big headed geezer. ha ha. love you all. steven xx

If 'any old tat will do', you'd perhaps better stick to poetry then, Steven. I don't know about other shorts writers, but every story (from idea to finished product) takes me about two weeks to complete. Would be interested to hear other 'shorts writers' views on this...

I always thought that prose lacked the rigid form or poetry and was more like a very short *i'm gonna tell you what i think* story....with no real plot.....or something....

prose is what happens when a poet falls out of love with the language.

Didn't Steven Jerkoff write 'My Wrist and Other Loves'? All power to your elbow. Onan Onan On. (spot the homage to a Prince among Threads)

when you talk in retentive clinched cliches from your anal canal

Are you taking eht ssip?

prince amongst threads eh? :o)

poetry is here in my pocket with punky fluff stuck on it and miserable prosers those posers with ethnic throwovers gather their grammar produce the world's longest stammer whilst poets like me suffer in glee because prosers smell of donkey wee wee