Wimpey Bar Waiters

Although I believe there is really no excuse for rudeness, especially in a catering enviroment where a customer is paying for service as well as the food, maybe they're miserable because they're doing such a crappy job.. Maybe they're doing such a crappy job because of a racist attitude which won't take into account their qualifications from their own country. Maybe there is no anglo-saxons working in such a job because they would rather go on the dole than work at Wimpey, where as someone from a poorer country and who doesn't mind hard work is willing to work anywhere to support themselves and their family. Maybe they're older students who need to re-qualify in this country before they can work in their own profession. I remember going to the KFC in High Barnet where all the staff were non-white and non-English, which didn't bother me in the slightest. It was 11-30 at night when a group of `anglo-saxon` youths came in and started verbally and violently racially abusing the staff, spitting at them, throwing chairs etc, gosh, that would make me miserable! It was terrifying for the staff. I phoned up the manager the next day, (another non anglo-saxon), and he just tried to fob me off. No one chooses to work in such an enviroment, especially where with late openings you are open to such abuse. But a job is a job and respect to them that these `non-English` people are prepared to work than take money from the state, which they were entitled to.

It's simply because it's catering - as simple as that. No-one, of choice, wants to work in what is usually a hectic atmosphere for the minimum wage. Therefore, catering is normally the province of immigrants who - for various reasons - have lower expectations. Think about it - Italian ice-cream parlours fifty years ago (often run by ex-POWs), Indian and Chinese restaurants in the fifties, followed by the explosion (not literally - I hope) in kebab houses and the wave of Greeks who now dominate the fish and chip trade in many places. Most natives, in a country of almost full employment, won't subject themselves to a regime where a halfwit with a couple of City and Guilds rules the roost like some tinpot God. The Wimpey in question - probably franchised: most are - was most likely in the hands of a seventeen-year-old temporary assistant trainee manager who couldn't care less about anything except what time he knocked off. Chris and I ran our own restaurant for fourteen years, so I have some experience; and I have to admit that coming down on a cold winter morning, picking up the peeler and surveying a glowering 25k sack of Estimas doesn't fill your heart with joy. Few eateries these days are owner-run, as mine was, and wages are just about the only way of cutting costs. Food, in many cases, doesn't cost as much as it did a decade ago - but that's a small part of the equation. Rates go up, EU regulations breed like rabbits, health inspectors get ever tougher. Oh, and the ultimate culprits? The chains that stuff the high street, paying ever-higher rentals and forcing rents up for everyone. Starbucks, Costa Fortune, you name 'em. That's why they ask nearly two quid for a coffee, and why the poor beggars at the other end of the chain work for peanuts.

Both Mark and Roy have made some very valid points here - especially Mark's noting of the abuse suffered by some waiters at the hands of white dickhead yobs. Take your average curry house on a Friday/Saturday night. Recently I found myself firing English people in a sales environment in favour of South Africans because they had such a great attitude. I too worked in catering, although I was never really cut out for it. I picked up my Silver Service City & Guilds and it managed to get me a few jobs, including a stint as a waiter on cruise ships - and that was tough work. I also worked as a kitchen porter in a cafe just outside Paris while living in a tent in the middle of a forest. Talk about peeling potatoes! More recently I worked a couple of seasons in a mate's restaurant in Portugal. We once ran the restaurant for 10 whole days with no running water! We were bringing in 25 litres twice a day. However, I don't believe that at any time did I treat my customers with the surly indifference received in most Wimpey Bars. England's not known for it's friendly service. Not when compared to America. But at least in a cafe you get an, "Hello, love, cup of tea?" In a Macdonald's or Burger King they at least make an effort to train the staff in courtesy. But I stand by what I said that in a Wimpey Bar they all seem to be miserable arseholes. They may have reasons to be miserable, granted, but they shouldn't bring them to work with them. And I still think they're a xenophobic organisation.

Wimpey Bars are taverns, Karl?

No, Barry, they're kind of like an upmarket McDonald's, except the food is more varied. Instead of self-service you sit yourself down at a table and some miserable Iranian arsehole holding a little notebook and pen in his hand comes and stares at you. It's one of those places where the butter for your toast is always hard, so you have to lay your napkin over your cup of tea and balance the butter on it to melt. You know the kind of place I mean. A kind of really shitty Denny's.

the solution is simple ... do not dine in wimpey bars

the in joke for WIMPEY the builders years ago was that it stood for: We Import More Paddies Every Year. (just quoting you understand) I dread to think what kind of acronym could be conjured up for WIMPEY 'restaurants' (term used loosely) ?

ever wondered what we call you, karl?

Or what WE call you?

Bit shocked at that Karl, I have to say. Couldn't you have just left it at 'miserable arseholes'? Poor 'ol proxy's having a fit!

He's not the only one *aghast at the thread*

This is how I deal with the hard butter problem Karl which is second on my list of priorities immediately below the Kosovo situation. I press it between thumb and forefinger for a few seconds which has the desired softening effect. If you decide to adopt this tactic instead of the somewhat more ostentatious and elaborate napkin-on-teacup balancing trick (don't the other customers stare?) make sure to take the foil wrapping from off of the butter only after you've done the squeezing thing. Re: The 'arseholes' who work in these places. My guess is that they do it because, just like most of us, they need the money to stop some bloke with big muscles coming and politely asking for the stereo unit back. Of course, if it weren't for these unfortunate 'arseholes' then us more fortunate 'arseholes' wouldn't even get our burgers and fries would we. Then what would we do? Guess we're all just a big bunch of arseholes together fulfilling slightly different functions. It always amuses me that, speaking generally, only fools use the expression 'I don't suffer fools gladly.' Wonder if a similar hypothesis can be used to people who call others 'arseholes.'

I've never really understood the concept of sitting down and waiting for a waiter to ask you what sort of burger you want. It flies in the face of all logic. The one in Lincoln closed years ago, but they used to give you a knife and fork. No wonder it was always empty. And, if I get you right Karl, you aren't saying that it is the fact that they are Iranian that makes them miserable ****holes - you are saying that the people who work in Wimpey are miserable ****holes and that they happen to be Iranian. I think it is important to make the distinction explicit. I personally find McDonalds staff to be very efficient, although the food isn't as good as Burger King, it doesn't take twelve minutes for someone to serve you and get the order wrong.

Since the nordic lady with the plump rump has put in a surprise guest appearance.. it wasn't, was it? Not HER? Not the blonde one out of ABBA who so enthralled the male sex whenever she turned her back on us?? Karl, you've trampled on my fantasies. Me and a few million other blokes.

Since no one has risen to the acronym challenge I penned a few this lunchtime. WIMPEY: "Waiter! It's Mostly Puke!" Enraged Yobbo. Wretched Identical Menus Proffered Every Year. White Imperialist Meals. Pathans Exploited? Yes. and my favourite: Wiggins Insults Minorities Perianally. Everyone Yowling!

Stormy, I love the last one! Andrew's right, of course. My issue is that the waiter's are arseholes, certainly not that they're Iranian or anything else. In this sense the word "Iranian" is used to help picture the scene more vividly. If I'd said, "Enthusiastic and extemely happy Iranian bundle of joy" then nobody could accuse me of picking on minorities. Which I'm not. I don't even know if they are Iranian. They're probably not. They could be Greek or Maltese or Iraqui for all I know. It makes not a scrap of difference. They're still miserable bastards. As to the fat-arsed Swede. Funny how the perspective changes with the point of view. In the "Never Mind The First Kiss" thread it was discussed quite openly how women sit about and discuss their men's performance in bed and the size of his todger. That, it seems, is okay. But it's not okay to discuss the size of a young lady's rear end - be she Swedish or Iranian. Double standards or what? (John L, thanks for the butter advice, I'll try that next time).

Knee jerk reaction to Karls honesty! Come on folks apart from his `un-pc` and tactless use of what is now considered completly passe, i.e naming of nationalities in a negative sense, do you really think it was meant in any other way, than a personal response to a personal experience? Knowing Karl, only through his e-mails and correspondance, I don't think so! I found it both scarily un-pc yet refreshing because he wasn't afraid to be himself, despite knowing I expect what our right on responses would be.

it wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to karl's honesty, mark...more a considered reaction to his naivety, both in the use of the term in question and in the opening reference to asylum seekers

I'll have you know, Karl, that I never discuss men's todgers with me female mates. Mainly because I ain't seen one for so long I've forgotton what they look like... Aplogies, by the way, if I inadvertantly mistook your meaning in previous posting.

I'm gonna try your butter melting trick for certain Karl. It will help pass a few minutes while I'm waiting for those lazy, no-good, miserable Iranian bastards who jump the dole queue and bleed the nation dry to try and get the order right for the fourth time. I mean exactly how difficult is cheeseburger, chips and a strawberry milkshake. Thick foreigners or what! Knowing me I'll drop the butter in the coffee for certain. Should have been borne in Iran I'm that dozy.

oh dear. John, cut and paste the following into an email adressed to: mississippi@allhellwillbreakloosesoon.fc.uk "can i borrow your tin hat george?" now, where's my deckchair, flask and jaffa cakes?

think john's being ironic, stormy...unless he's just traded brains with high wystan

thats possibly why my post was light hearted and not a both barrels of petrel type post. I haven't spoken to john directly but I think I am pretty astute at judging who the forum wankers are and who aren't from their posts as has been proven in the past. legal action prevents me from naming names but Andrew said I should never mention M the M; any type of fish beginning with H; Harry Dens or Dans; the you're so vague person; I could go on but I'm running out of breath. Gasp

'Course he was being ironic, you silly boys, you...

Some of these people I've never heard of Stormy. Not sure I'm keen on having my name so close to some of the others - I hope nothing intended. And by the way - you don't need to worry about defamation if it is true - calling someone a w**ker is almost guaranteed to be true on the dictionary definition of the word (ie a farmer is someone who farms, a baker is someone who bakes...) and you could run a spirited defence along those lines.

Mark, How are you mate? We haven't had any deep discussions for a long while, have we? Remind to tell you sometime of how I discovered where I'd tied up my female side while I scattered my energies all over the world during those "macho" 20's years. And how I discovered her again. Anyway, thanks for sticking up for me. I am notoriously un-pc, and I admit it, but I really mean no harm. I just like to play the devil's advocate sometimes. And you're right, I know exactly the reaction I'm aiming for, although sometimes it comes from directions that surprise me. Genuine apologies to anyone I've offended. I'd like to state here and now that I am in no way racist or prejudiced in any fashion at all. I've lived in too many places. I have great friends who are black and great friends who are German. I've worked with Iranians in the TimeShare world and found them a lot of fun. I love the Portuguese and we may even consider retiring out there. I don't even mind Scousers or Jocks. I have very little patience with the ignorance of racists. I witnessed a lot of it while living out in Portugal and seeing how the tourists (English & German) treated the people from the host country. And while I dislike racists intensely, I also dislike people with a chip on their shoulder.

Karl - re. your posting of 15:57.. I'd be very careful about mentioning women's backsides and thanking someone for their tip on the use of butter in almost the same sentence. Did you never catch up on "Last Tango in Paris?" Did wonders for the sale of Lurpak..

*maintains a dignified silence*

"I hereby testify that any remarks erstwhile attributed to Andrew were purely co-incidental and do not, in any medium for the purposes of textual discourse, resemble any person, (living or dead); Lincolnshire solicitors; lookalikes claiming to be short story writers; or anyone else appearing on these threads." The authors moral right to this post has been duly asserted -apart from the following comment: *Since when have you been dignified mississippi?*

My final take on this subject - There is a lot of double-standards, hypocrisy and inherent ridiculousness in Political Correctness, but as a white middle-class male, the minor inconvenience that having to use the PC expression currently in vogue causes me from time to time, is really trifling in comparison with actual racism. I think there is a point to Political Correctness, which is that words have power and words used carelessly can cause offence. Sometimes it goes wrong (I will never forget US newsreaders describing Nelson Mandela as an African-American - he's bloody African. There is no doubt about that. He's got no ties to America at all) sometimes its a pain in the neck, but try watching a sitcom set in the Seventies with any ethnic minority in the cast without wincing to see what the alternative was. And best of luck to the Asylum Seekers in court today - of course they shouldn't be imprisoned in camps for 'administrative purposes' and the Home Office should get a good kicking. It was their department spearheading the Human Rights Act, yet it seems they've never read it. Andrew's prediction - a big fudge, no compensation and the camps quietly pack up and shut down. Whether you agree with Asylum Seekers or not, they are human beings and deserve a bit of bloody dignity.

Oh how I'm tempted!

Which category they fall into might (and IMHO should) affect whether or not they stay here, but while they are waiting and we are deciding, we should remember that they are human beings.

Shall I or shan't I? I can feel my self succumbing to the challenge.....

Go fer it, Missus! You know you won't be able to resist for much longer...

Karl, i wasn’t offended by your comments – there was clearly no malice in them – but i did find them objectionable. political correctness and “chip on the shoulder” (along with “no sense of humour”) have become the stock rebuttals used against people who raise a voice against what they find objectionable, and in some cases it can be true. i too find extreme cases of pc to be irritating and absurd [not least: my son came home from school last year adamant that I didn’t know the right words to baa baa black sheep - his class had been singing baa baa sheep sheep…] but, although there is logically no reason why iranian arsehole is any more objectionable to fat/ginger/bald/spotty arsehole, in practice there is a subtle difference. i can only speak from personal experience. when I was a child in the seventies there was an awful lot of overt racism in england. you could throw bananas at black footballers and not only get away it, you could watch yourself later on Match of the Day, probably after watching one of the sitcoms that andrew mentioned. i discussed all this with a friend a while ago who is also mixed-race, and after very many beers we both admitted that while we had each occasionally been the victim of direct racism, the greater damage was done by the general racism that was rife when we were growing up. we both realised that this had had a very negative impact on how we had felt about not being white. there would of course have been thousands of others who had it far worse than we did, and who are still suffering prejudice, and i think that is why most people now, thankfully, would avoid referring to anyone’s race or nationality in an insulting way. even if they *are* arseholes. Mississippi - if you have something intelligent to contribute to the asylum debate, why not just say it? asylum is possibly the most serious domestic humanitarian issue the country has faced for a generation. i'm sure that you will have some carefully considered views.

I've beaten you to it Mississippi. Sorry mate. This whole situation with the asylum seekers reminds me that I've come across all this before. While travellinmg across America by Greyhound in 1980 I recall arriving in El Paso, Texas, after a 27-hour journey. El Paso sits on the Rio Grande, which the Spanish call the Rio Bravo. The Rio Grande is 1800 miles long and flows south from the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, through New Mexico to El Paso. From there it flows south-east, forming the Texas-Mexico border to the Gulf of Mexico. Across the Rio Grande, in Mexico, is Ciudad Juarez (Sjuoao Xwares in Spanish) Now El Paso is a @!#$ hole. No, that’s being overly kind. It’s a turd. Even if a @!#$ hole does tend to stink a bit, at least it’s generally cleaned every now and again. El Paso is snuff coloured. There, that’s about as polite as I can get. It looks, and smells, as if the whole town is undegoing an unusually frequent evacuation of loose, watery waste matter from its bowels. And by the way everyone walks that would appear to be the case. Anyway, we crossed over the border to Ciudad Juarez, and as we drove across the bridge the taxi driver pointed out “wetbacks” swimming across the Rio Grande with all their belongings strapped to their backs. There were whole families in search of better living conditions, a new life and the possibility of a green card. We could empathise with them as we were about to become illegal aliens ourselves. In fact, I spent seven years of my life as an illegal alien. Most of them would be caught and turned back, and have to try again the next day, but occasionally someone would make it, disappearing into a network set up fifty years earlier. They would find work easily enough and would commence setting up a life for themselves, hoping beyond hope that their family would also find a way across someday. If they do the tragedy will continue, for their daughters will soon start selling "favours" to travelling salesmen and their sons will leave the El Paso area and head for Los Angeles, where they will join a gang and start selling drugs, taking violence and strong-arm tactics to the extreme in their chosen profession. Many of them will die in jail, either through violence or drug abuse. None of them will ever be rich. And not just in financial terms either. They will never be rich in joy, happiness, love, friendship or peace of mind. Sad, isn't it? Now if El Paso is a turd, then Ciudad Juarez is the place that turds go when they’ve been flushed down the bog. You might not be aware of this but the drains from your house don’t go straight out to the public sewer system. First of all they go through Ciudad Juarez. What a cesspool. No wonder they’re all trying to escape. Now I've made massive generalisations here - as someone's bound to point out - but for an illegal alien life is bloody tough. They can't get a legit job and they can't claim welfare - at least not in the States anyway. What choice do they have? They have a number of choices, as we all know. Unfortunately when a small minority of those choose to turn to crime the blame is shouldered by the whole race. This is the same with any minority group. I was drinking in New York one time with an FBI Immigration Officer who pulled his card on me to check my status. I nearly crapped myself. But he was only winding me up. His department was not concerned with illegal English or Canadians, because most of us, one way or another, sorted ourselves out and kept out of trouble. The FBI man's department was only concerned with the Hispanics (Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Columbians), because a lot of crime was - and still is - being committed by these group. This, sadly, is the same issue we may have to face ourselves in this country in a few years time.

Robert, I've just read the above posting. You must have added it while I was scribbling away on my posting. I think you make a very valuable point. There is a subtle difference, and it's something I'll admit I hadn't considered before. If someone's an arsehole then they deserve to be called an arsehole. After all, it's their choice to be an arsehole. But to mention their race as well may cast dispersions on the whole race, and that has never been my intention. I thank you for pointing this out to me. I'd like to think I'll be more careful in the future, but I'm bound to @!#$ up again. I will try, though.

that is very gracious, karl. thank you. like i said, i wasn't offended by the comments because i did not think that you meant them to be so. it is unfortunate that the sins of others past and present cause us to be so careful in our use of words. re your 2nd posting, i don't think that the UK will necessarily face the same problems as those you describe in the US...though it's rather ironic that our "tough" stance on asylum can only encourage illegal immigration.

I'm sorry Karl but what exactly is your position, I've been fully aware of most of the points you mention for a long time (with the exception of the true variety of arseholes there seems to be), but what is your view viz a viz asylum seekers? I may be getting sensitive, but I thought I detected a slight note of irritation in your last paragraph Robert, is it possible I have somehow unintentionally ruffled your feathers? Could it be that you assume I am unsympathetic or worse, toward those less fortunate than myself?

i must confess mississippi, that i expect your views on asylum seekers to be different to mine! it may be because you changed the heading of the thread. i may be mistaken, as i oft am. earlier in the thread andrew wished luck on the 4 asylum seekers in court today, and said that we should treat asylum seekers with dignity. did your "oh how i'm tempted" comment actually mean "oh how i'm tempted to agree with andrew"?

I think you do me a disservice Robert, but perhaps the heading was a little misleading. I wasn't 'tempted' to agree or disagree with Andrew, I was tempted to start a discussion analysing the causes of, and possible remedies to the whole refugee problem from a completely dispassionate and unbiased point of view. The reason I didn't just jump in was because I wasn't sure whether or not I would get a 'here he goes again' response.

I don't get out much, but I'm sure I haven't see a 'Wimpey Bar' for eons - weren't they taken over by Burger King?

Just ask yourself one question. Would anyone choose to be an asylum seeker if there was any realistic viable alternative way to get themselves a half-decent life? If the answer's 'NO' then you can't really blame 'em 'cos you've just admitted they've got no choice. On the other hand if the answer's YES - well in that case I don't know the answer. Maybe you just need to check out the question a little more carefully. When all's said and done, who runs away from something nice toward something nasty? Purely by way of illustration, you understand, feminist snipers, - if you were going out with Linda Evangelista would you dump her and try to pull Vanessa Feltz? If you answer 'YES' to this question, keep well away from me, matey, just in case it's catching. If you e-mail me privately I'll give you the 'phone number of my psychiatrists. Pretty obviously, he ain't that good. As regards being emigrants/ immigrants (when does one suddenly become the other? I'm confused) well, unless you can claim to be 100% pure blood Celt or Pict then either you, or one of your ancestors, was an immigrant once. I wonder when exactly it stopped being OK to be an immigrant and became 'not OK.' I have the strangest suspicion that for most people it was roughly 5 minutes after their own particular ancestor hit these shores. Weird that, ain't - it was OK for my ancestors to come and make a decent life for me but it ain't OK for you. How does that one work? Not too long ago, after many years of wondering, I finally plucked up the courage to ask my Mom who my Dad was. 'Some soldiers' she replied, wistfully 'Some soldiers.' The trouble is, what with the shock and everything I completely overlooked to ask her which army these soldiers fought for. So I don't know - Pict soldiers, Celt soldiers, French soldiers even (God forbid) Iranian soldiers. Who knows. I guess all this means I don't actually know if I'm entitled to live here at all. All things considered, I think I'll hang around all the same if that's OK with the rest of you. I kinda like it here. As it happens my Grandad fought for the British Army at Ypres carelessly leaving behind his left eye and part of his left hand. My Dad fought the Japanese Imperial Guard at Burma (Battle of Kohiema - check it out, scary stuff) and managed to smuggle out half a leg-full of Japanese shrapnel by way of fair exchange for the bits my Grandad left in France. There was nothing special about 'em, no doubt this was all pretty commonplace stuff. At least they came back. The point is, I never, ever heard either one of 'em refer to Britain/England as 'my country' or suggest that anyone should be excluded from it and all it has to offer. I hope this taught me some kind of lesson. Let he who is Celt or Pict cast the first stone. PS Don't think it was the Iranian soldiers. I ain't swarthy enough. PPS. Re that other posting that upset stormy just a little. OK, OK I admit it, I was being ironic. PPPS. What does ironic mean?

irony john ... gosh now there IS a thought ...

I'm very pleased that after all the expense and hassle, the Human Rights Act has finally delivered some protection to people's human rights. It's bloody taken a while. To be honest, I could earn substantially more doing my job if I worked in London, or York. If I moved there, I would be an economic migrant, and competing with locals for jobs. That doesn't seem to me to be too evil. If I was in one of the countries people are fleeing from, earning less than the cost of a Wimpey meal for a week's work, then maybe I would think being an economic migrant was acceptable. What I have a problem with is people choosing to move from other European, hopefully 'non-oppressive' regimes, where people can earn a reasonable amount, to come to England because the benefit system is perceived to be better. But this is a European problem and the solution is to harmonise benefits across the EC for economic migrants. It may not even be that our benefit system is better, but the perception amongst people seems to be that England is a place where people are treated fairly - I feel happier to live in a country perceived as being fair than one which wants to crack down on asylum seekers and keep them locked up for administrative purposes.

Dear John, (sounds like a divorce letter) You didn't upset me at all. I was referring to previous battles in this forum and I thought your post, ironic or not, would bring the worst out in some people. Robert nipped it in the bud though so I was wrong. my second post (the one that confused Andrew) was for Robert. He knows what and who I was talking about. I'm not so sure that our mixed heritage comes from previous immigration. more like previous occupation by invading armies from germany, scandinavia, france, rome (in random order there). Even the original celtic tribes came over from France I believe and they may have strolled in from eastern europe originally. The royals ought to change their name to Heinz given the number of varieties in their genetic background. my own colouring tells me that one of my female ancestors must have fallen for the old "do you have any Italian in you? No? ...... do you want some?" pick up line.

John, I can't agree more with your comments. While living illegally in the States it always amused me that the very people who felt I had no right there were actually from immigrant stock themselves. My position, Mississippi, is that I was born on this planet - a child of planet earth - and as such feel that I have the right to wander wherever I wish ..... ..... Unless, that is, I decide to turn to crime. In that case I have to face the fact that I am unwelcome. If anyone enters my house with the intention of commiting a crime, he is unwelcome and faces violence. His choice. If anyone enters "my" country and commits a crime, he's got to understand that people aren't going to like him very much.

That's why it's in quotation marks, Fecky. It's not my country at all, and as far as I'm concerned I enjoy living in a multi-cultural society. Anyone is welcome in the country I currently choose to reside in ..... as long as they commit no crime. If they do, they can @!#$ right off.

I live in the middle east and have lived in the far east as well. Considering some of the things i have seen (although not where i currently live) and after being an expatriate for most of my life i've taken a lot of interest in immigration and asylum seekers. The recent issue with the australians turning away people and sending them to papua new guniea was on the news yesterday i think. Anyway it made me think these people go through more than most people will go through who are living in places like england (i'm english by the way) and people seem to forget this often enough. Is it really fair to refuse anyone as Fecky said before isn't it a part of "their" planet. I don't want to start any big issues here but isn't it just pot luck where we end up being born. Why should we have anymore right to live in a certain place. If people want to become a citizen of another country providing they abide by the rules what right has anyone really got to say no? Now i'm not saying it causes economic problems but shouldn't the ethical and moral reasons be thought about? P.S. sorry if that didn't make any sense it was written in haste!

I find it extraordinary that this topic appears to warrant one of the longest threads on the whole board, and still counting. I don't expect much from fast food service, and my expectations are normally met. I would be much more interested to learn why a good 25% or more of the bus drivers in this fine city are psychotic to the point of requiring institutionalization? I ride the buses every day, and virtually every day I see a bus driver screaming at a passenger for such terrible infractions as boarding the bus too slowly (an 80 year old nun in this case). Meanwhile, they drive like maniacs, and if they don't have a passenger to abuse, they just babble and snarl out loud to themselves about some unspecified grievance. And let's not forget the lovely passengers of the delightful bus system in this fine city. If the bus driver manages to get through a 15 minute period without screaming at a passenger, one of the passengers takes up the challenge to break the silence and launches into a screaming fit at one of the other passengers for no apparent reason. I have been subjected to this kind of abuse at least three times per month for the past two years. I just hope these people never go to New York City and do the same thing. They will be dead within the week.