Constructive feedback on writing

Hey Natalia, I'm with you on this. Sure, being told someone likes one's work is great for boosting one's morale, but it's not mutually exclusive to people point to weak links, flaws or areas of potential improvement in one's writing. I'll be sure to read over your stories and offer what pointers I can. Hopefully you'll find them of some use!

Join the club, Natalia. I don't get much feedback on my writing either. Have they told you to start reviewing others first, and then you should get comments on your work? I know that I've been told that. Most of us are so busy writing our stories we rarely have time to read. Don't expect much help. I know I haven't seen much. Bryan

I'll make you a deal. I've been writing for twenty-five years, and I feel I'm good at it. Lets read each others work and I'll help you all I can. Deal? Bryan

Taking deep breaths ...nah, fuck it. Bryan, I spent two hours reading and commenting for you this week. I know insert, Jolono, The Walrus and probably others have given up their time to read for you, it's a pity their time was wasted because they weren't of any help to you. And once again we have that shit, selfish attitude of people too busy writing their stories (that they're good at) to help other people with theirs. Waiting for the hoards of people, who clearly aren't too busy writing their own (probably inferior and therefore a waste of time, anyway) stories to come flocking to your stuff. Well, let me tell you, a lot of people have the same selfish attitude, they `aint going to come a flocking... but don't worry, those of us who do keep trying to get the message across that if you read for other people, they'll return the favour will keep trying and we'll suffer being condescended to by people saying...'Did they say to you..' as though it's the most preposterous idea in the world. And we'll keep reading for ungrateful shits who then don't bother passing on a potion of that time to others. Here's another little gem for you to mock ... if everybody on the site commented on two pieces for every one they post, imagine the traffic, the goodwill and the buzz of the site. At least Natalia is going to benefit from your wisdom. If you think you'll get any more help on another site please let the rest of us know. I'm sure there's a magic site out there full of readers only. This site is massive, with thousands of members, Tony has worked his backside off to build this up to what it is, unfortunately 75% of it's members don't see why they should give back what they take... and then whinge about. This is the least cliquey site I've been on, people always go out of their way to welcome new members, but if they choose to fall off the radar by not getting to know people, (and how do you do that? By commenting on their work) they can't then complain that people haven't been helpful. There's a reason why people don't like one-way systems and that's why this is a two-way street.

Hi you two, I do know how you feel. The trouble with writers is they are on the whole very poor readers of others’ work - at least in the sense of their colleagues work on this site. And I know what you mean, Bryan, writing our own stories takes time and doesn't leave much for reading and commenting. Poems v Stories. Poems will always win out over their more lengthy counterparts, because they demand much less time to assimilate. A story is much more challenging and demanding in reading time terms, and of analysis. It's always harder to comment critically and fairly on a story, especially a lengthy one. Sometime they are impossible to unravel and analyse and that puts people off attempting it. Some of my stories get excellent reads, but often no comments, and I suppose there's a message or a moral in there somewhere. New people to the site often bring this subject up and they always get the same advice - comment on others and they will comment on yours. I don't totally hold with that, because there is a fear with some people they are not qualified to comment, or do not feel confident about having a go at it for fear of upsetting or offending someone. Let’s face it, we can all write glib and witty remarks, patting someone on the back, even when the work maybe doesn't warrant it. I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine kind of thing. But this kind of mutual appreciation might boost our egos, but does little in terms of constructive help . I have always tried to give value in commenting on others' work, and particularly where they have requested it, because if they've taken trouble and effort over something and want an honest appraisal, I will provide it. It is impossible to follow everyone’s work on ABC, and there are many talented writers here, but I try to keep up with as many as I can, daytime work permitting etc. I will check out both of you (give me a couple of days) and I will get back to you two with some reasonable and hopefully helpful comment. Best wishes to both of you (Natalia and Bryan). Trevor

I wish someone would comment on my poems. (weep weep) I think I'm brilliant and deserve hundreds of cherries but nee'r a one! The main criticism in general I have of others work is that it's too long and often written without paragraphs or breaks. I like poetry that rhymes (eg Shades) and is amusing ( eg Shades), here most people write beautiful blank verse that makes me very emotional which is ok but I try to inject a little humour into life. God only knows there's not too much to laugh about!

Bryan, the advice that "They" gave you about reading other peoples work is very valid. "They" of course includes me as I welcomed you to the site after reading Sacred Harbour Prologue. Your response to my reading and comments.......nothing. I then went on to read Sacred Harbour Part One, I left a comment saying that i thought it was good and was enjoying the read, your response.....nothing. I then went on to read Sacred Harbour Part Two, took the time to read through it, took the time once again to leave a comment, your response.....nothing. I then went on to read Sacred Harbour Part Three, read it all the way through, took my valuable time, when i could have been writing fabulous stories of my own, left a comment, your response....nothing. You've posted ten pieces, I've read 5 and each time left a comment. I then think maybe Bryan's going to read one of mine, ..........nothing. I notice that in the time you've been here, ( apart from today) you've read and commented on just four pieces of others work. Guess what? My advice is still the same, read as much as you can of other's work and they WILL read yours. It's a shame as I was beginning to enjoy Sacred Harbour, but obviously it wasn't appreciated. You mentioned that you were just trying to get your name noticed. Guess what, you've succeeded.

I'm sorry Natalia, I completely ignored what you had posted and that was rude. I did read it first time around my comment wasn't towards you. I also apologise for being rude to Bryan. Though the sentiments of my post stand, I could have put it across in a more polite way. The mocking tone of the post annoyed me. I've noticed several of your comments on People's work Natalia, to my mind, that's playing the game. And, in fairness to Bryan, in reading the comments on his posts, twice he has said,'Is there anything of yours that you'd like me to read?' which again, is in the spirit of being a team player. On to the content of comments, which was the original point of your post. I will always try to make pointers as I go along. Some people aren't comfortable doing that for fear of offending. To me, if it's done in a respectful and polite way, that's the point of the site. But, even if people only leave you a comment saying 'good poem,' or whatever, at least you know that the site is still active and that your work hasn't disappeared into the ether never to be read again. I think all traffic is a good thing. Keep writing, keep posting (both of you) and enjoy.

Without taking any sides, for those of you looking for constructive crits, here's a link you might find find useful; http://www.abctales.com/node/618190

Hi, Bryan, I wonder if you know to use your track button, you have an awful lot of unread comments.

Ah, here is the problem, go to your account page, at the top there are some tabs, files, edit, track and personal files, click on track, all your new comments are highlighted in red next to the relevant piece of work, I did the same thing when I joined and inadvertently ignored kind comments left for me on my work, hope this helps you.

I've been on the site for years and only found the track button a few weeks ago, what a difference it makes. Before that, about once a month I monotonously clicked open every single post to see if I'd missed any comments. Duh!

HOLD ON A SECOND. You're telling me I've been on this site six years and never knew there was a track button? F&%K