Vintage Raymond Carver
Posted by celticman on Mon, 08 Dec 2014
[Vintage] Raymond Carver (2009 [1993] will you please be quiet? (2009 [1993]) what we talk about when we talk about love.
I’ve read some of these stories before. From the latter
collection, for example, Why Don’t You Dance? This has everything you need in a short story and the premise is simple enough to make sense and complex enough to leave the reader asking
questions. Simply put, you don’t have to eat a whole orange to know it’s an
orange and you don’t have to see someone’s whole life to understand how they
live. The narrator pours himself a whiskey and looks out the kitchen window to the yard. The nightstand, the reading lamp, the chiffonier, all the fixtures and fitting are sitting outside
and they’re hooked up and still in working order. It’s vintage Carver, starts in media res, the narrator is a drinker leading an ordinary life, as Carver the ordinary working man did, he is not
sure what he is going to do and that uncertainty spills into the reader, but
there’s no volte-face as there is in classic Alice Munro, but a humbling along
that mirrors ordinary life, but illuminates it. In I Could See the Smallest Things, for example, a woman gets up in the middle of the night and goes and has a word with her next door neighbour,
who used to be good friends with her husband Cliff, but the two men no longer
talk and the two neighbours come to some partial understanding and she goes
back to lie in bed beside a snoring husband. No melodrama in the drama. What
We Talk about When We Talk about Love is I imagine Carver’s most famous
work. Two couples finish a bottle of gin. Mel is a cardiologist and Terri left
her husband to marry Mel, who left his wife to marry Terri. They’re all kinda
drunk and getting drunker. Mel tells his friends that Terri’s husband loved her
so much he tried to kill her (and him), but succeeded only in poisoning himself
with rat poison so that all his teeth went crazy and his teeth stood out from
his gums making him look like the rats the poison was the antidote for. Then he
botched shooting himself in the head. Mel has one question: ‘What do you do
with a love like that? They’re Not Your Husband is a different
kind of love. The narrator Earl Ober is ‘between jobs’ and his wife works
nights in a diner at the edge of town. He goes there one night and hears two
men sitting talking about the way his wife skirt rides up as she dishes out
ice-cream and how mesmerising but disgusting that sight is. Earl decides his
wife is going to diet, so that she’s not such a slob and she agrees to his
request.
I also read about the standoff Carver had with his editor Gordon
Lish, with accusations that Lish was the real writer in the partnership (see
below) mediated by his later partner, and muse, Tess Gallacher. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/sep/27/raymond-carver-editor-influ...
That was seven years ago, so I’m a slow reader. Shoot me. When I
edit someone else’s work I always tell them I re-write everything in my own
image. Take what you need. Ditch what you want. It’s your work. You make those
choices. We had this debate on ABCtales about the merits of traditional
publishing and self-publishing, but if someone had sent me Carver’s –published-
work and I hadn’t read it before, or knew who he was, I’d classify it as likely
to be self-published. Sure there are some great stories, told in simple
sentences. Like Hemmingway there is no metaphoric flourish, whether this is for
ideological grounds of being rooted in dry realism I don’t know. If Hemmingway
and Carver score a one on the metaphor scale and writers like Anne Tyler score
a ten, then my own writing is filled with the dry pebble of failed metaphors,
words that buzz round the wrong hive and, in general, would score eleven and a
bit. But some Carver stories like Tell the Women We’re Going, The Bath and
Nobody Said Anything I just don’t like very much. That’s life.
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Comments
Raymond Carver has a cult
Raymond Carver has a cult following because he was on the drink and gave it up. I wish Jo Public would worship me that easily, I was never on the drink in the first place so obviously that makes me the number one candidate for the Nobel Prize for Literature.
The story where the unemployed Earl tells his wife to diet, are we intended to like a man who exploits his wife economically and then insults her? I hope the sequel is about a lonely man with his bottle.
However cynicism can be cheap and he wrote a poem entitled Gravy which I like.
He's a good writer, but there
He's a good writer, but there are better. Some of which I've reviewed Jhumpa Lahiri for example writes short stories and is brilliant, but it's a matter of taste. Writing is like fingerprints. Everyone's is different. He writes about the little American that's not got much money and no great hope and there's a kind of claustrophobia in every tale. I like that honesty. Lahiri writes about India and moving to a different culture and what it all means. I guess I should say one is not better than the other and that's true, but Lahiri is better.
As an older reader, the
As an older reader, one writer who I have come to respect is Alan Sillitoe, author of Saturday Night and Sunday Morning and the Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner and other Short Stories. Alan was from the bottom of the heap in Nottingham and drew his inspiration from those around him. He writes a very believable mix of mundanity laced with bits of fun. Everyone left alive in his stories suffers some sort sort of collateral damage and they get on with life and make do as best they can. It's me, it's how my own life has turned out and if Alan was alive I would entrust him to put myself into his work and to handle me with care.
I have read Jhumpa Lahiri's The Lowland because I went to reserve the short stories you liked from the online library catalague and pressed the wrong key! It's good, I plan to read the short stories too.
Celt, I wrote a long comment
Celt, I wrote a long comment to this but didn't post as I felt deeply ashamed of myself for saying anti-great comments seeing as I am such an inexperienced old wench and how dare she have an opinion. I shouldn't not comment though, so will be honest - I know why Carver and Bukowski are highly acclaimed, technically skilled, all that brilliant awe inspiring stuff - I see clearly why - but no matter how hard I try, the small room syndrome and alcohol absorption, the gloom and struggle within their stories does nothing for me. Nothing. Have never cracked either of them. Read all the shorts. Just can't get there. I think it's because alcohol has devastated so many people in my personal life and the pedestal or role booze has in their fiction pervades my ability to see past it. Skulking off now. Ashamed and exposed. A lesser person. A snake in the grass.
Vera, we've all got our
Vera, we've all got our prejudices. Poetry perhaps is easier. We simply say we like something or say it's shit. We don't really need a reason for it. I know you're a great fan of Virginia Woolfe. And Insert called her son Orlando -fuck sake! I can't stand Virginia Woolfe. Shakespeare the most revered, most quoted, and he has the most neologoisms in the English language. Not my cup of twee. Beat poetry. Hum-haw, fuck naw. Then of course we have the quitessential English tale of women who don't have enough money to marry the proper type of chap, but being the proper type of person, love wins. Dress it up in a big bow. We can't like all books in the same way that we can't like all of other people's children. That doesn't make us any better or worse than anybody else. We like what we like.
Have roared laughing at
Have roared laughing at Virginia Woolf comments. So true what you say - poetry distate is allowed, all great fiction 'should' be revered with this strange guilt. Perhaps I load that on myself but other people definitely gave it. We dislike quietly. On an English lit course, my tutor told me to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to cause stand up rows when I said I wasn't overly moved by Dickens. Anything with a poor woman and marriage in a big bow makes me grit my teeth too.
I am going to make some
I am going to make some Abctalers grit their teeth and admit to being a fan of James Joyce. I tried reading Ulysses on my own twice and gave up around page 120 but I knew that if I made myself study it as an option when at uni I would like it. I have even more admiration for the author now, for his giant endeavour in 1926 of re-making his city as it was back in 1904 and for his dedication both to creating real characters and to presenting the way they live and feel and think in an experimental manner. Respect!
I sometimes find that literary writing set in present day England leaves me cold. My personal view is that it has become its own little genre and it does not do very much.
you certainly don't make me
you certainly don't make me grit my teeth. I studied Shakespeare for much the same reason. Reading is what I do when I'm not doing something else. I've not tackled more than a page or two of Joyce, I just don't have the energy or motivation for it, which makes it sound like a chore. If and when reading becomes a chore I'd rather be doing something else. Life's too short for worrying what our neighours will think when we admit that no- I think that's shit and just don't like it eg Virginia Woolfe.