Writing Tips

i'm doing something for class and i need some writing tips. I mainly write poems, and i have three published. I just don't know about the story i got. Its about a girl and a guy that go back in time to the 50's. Where they are the parents of the dead girl thats in their house. Its a very basic summury of it. Anyway i need some tips.

Yeah, I think at some point you maybe have to abandon the idea of contantly improving, learning, rewriting, if you're going to get anywhere. Go out on a limb with something.

what have had published Simon if you don't mind me asking?

Hi Flash and thanks for asking. I have written a book entitled THE VALENTINE ROSE. The story is based in Berlin at the begining of WWII and the focus is on Col Cheristoff Stern and his attempts to get a secret file called THE VALENTINE ROSE out of German and into the hands of the Resistance. This book was the first thing that I wrote (of any length and depth) since I was 17 so I found it very challenging. I must admit that I'm not very good with punctuation and grammer etc so help was needed in that respect. I have learned from this book as my other novella THE MURDERS OF MUTCHROSE VILLAGE is (I have been told) much better. The reviews of THE VALENTINE ROSE have (so far) been very favourable and that is always encouraging even though I know that one day the book will get a blasting from somebody, but you take the rough with the smooth.

punctuation and grammer etc those words are like Cabbage and children things that cause me terror whenever they are near and to be avoided at all costs. I have big problems understanding punctuation and grammer etc you may as well try and teach me physics in Hungarian. Two of my stories have been crticised on ukauthors.com for lacking the aforementioned yet both are full of commas and full stops etc... how many do these guys want? Seriously I always thought of writing as a raw art form and not a pinneckty Science, the idea is more important than the technique although it's nice to have the ability to apply both. That's my nieve view anyway Good luck with your writing

I totally agree with you there Flash, to me the idea is the main thing. After all if it's good then a publisher will have editors and proofreaders to mess and sort it out. Commas, full stops, colons, semi colons-? WHAT THE HELL IS ALL THAT ABOUT! Cheers. Si. PS I know that sound punctuation is important but sometimes I find certain authors and English teachers can get a tad...painful in there assessment of the piece, a bit too critical.

Maybe you stuffed 'em in the wrong places, Flash :-) The commas and full stops, that is. And I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but publishers do NOT have 'editors and proofreaders to sort it out'. A few errors will be forgiven, but if the work's riddled, it'll more than likely be binned without further ado (and without being read any further). Sorry, but that's life...

I definitely put them in wrong places, i'll need to improve on my sprinkling technique. Or just place a bundle dots and commas at the start so readers(if any) can place where they wish. One chap did this before i believe. What's a good way to get with grips with punctuation and grammar? Bearing in mind i'm Forty years old, thick as two short ones and lazy. I have no aspirations for being published but Simon has done alright or has he?

You might have no aspirations to be published, but you like to be read, no? And it's a sad fact of life that a piece that's full of errors makes for awfully hard going. Regarding getting to grips, there are some useful links here: Try...er...'usefel links' and 'miscellaneous' :-)

Cheers

Simon Your story looks far better presented on your home page than here perhaps if you pasted it across a few more people might give it a whirl, i haven't read it btw

Your too right...it is life Shame that a lot of publishers would put money and sales before a good story that may need some work. Like most people (me included) in life they want an easy life. Your right that good punctuation can make reading a story a pleasure and we should endeavor to try our best. Si.

It's not only publishers though, Si, it's mag editors as well. Even small press editors are so busy and so inundated with submissions, that they don't have the time (or inclination) to trawl through badly edited mss. They figure that if the author doesn't care enough to present his/her work as perfectly as possible, why should they care enough to read and publish it? And, as an editor myself, I agree with them :-)

So wise for someone so young.

What though if for instance...for the sake of argument, there came along a great story but the bloke guy or gal got kicked back due to a lack of punctuation and grammer. Now I

What though if for instance...for the sake of argument, there came along a great story but the bloke guy or gal got kicked back due to a lack of punctuation and grammer. Now I

What though if for instance...for the sake of argument, there came along a great story but the guy or gal got kicked back due to a lack of punctuation and grammer. Now this in no reflects yourselfs as I know that you have mentoned sites that help with grammer etc which I think is brill, you are willing to help as are all of us on this site. The thing is not all publishers, editors etc are forth coming with help in their rejection letters...I know (thanks but no thanks), and not everybody knows about places lilke this. Do you think that a lot of people are passed over because of faults that could and should be mentioned in their letters. After all would HARRY POTTER have got where it is today if J K Rowling had struggled at punctuation and grammer...No. All I'm saying is that Editors, publishers etc could be a bit more kind hearted and offer advice when they reject somebodies work, it may not be that an author doesn't care, they may honestly struggle and yes why indeed should an Editor, Publisher trawl through some bad work, maybe because the story is worth more than the money...I doubt that. Si. PS Just playing for the poor man here that's all, not having a go at any one in particular. Heh heh.

Oops don't know what has happened there, It wasn't me honestly! Ignore the first two after FLash. See thats what you get when you start mouthing off it all goes wrong...bah.

Most small press editors will give you feedback if they think the story has merit but needs some serious editing. Think about it, though. If you're an editor of even a small press mag (and I mean that in no way as derogatory - small presses are what keep the short story and peotry mediums alive) that you have to read/edit/prepare for publication every month (say) and you're getting 100 - 200 submissions a week (and that's a conservative estimate), naturally you're going to favour the (good) easy-to-read pieces over the (good) coffee-stained, gramatically ghastly ones. After all, there are enough writers out there who care enough about their work to make it presentable without having to make an ed's life even more difficult by trawling through the badly presented stuff. Yes, the faults should, maybe, be mentioned in the rejection letters, but the truth is, most editors simply don't have time to do it. At the very least you can invest in a 'how to' book. If you don't mind about being published, then it doesn't matter in the slightest of course but, even then, you'll find even readers on sites such as these will be put off by stuff that's hard to read because of bad spelling/punctuation/grammar. And don't forget, also, that a comma in the wrong place can totally change the meaning of a sentence meaning you, the writer, aren't conveying what it is you want to convey to the reader. Kind of defeats the object, don't you think?

You seem to be slightly leaning towards the 'small press mag' 'womans weekly' kind of thing. On this I would say fine, yes the work needs weeding out and yes you need the best for your mag. But there is a difference between a coffee morning read of love and betrayal and a 50,000 word novel. Now I'm in no way saying that punctuation and grammer should be taken lightly, just that a little more help from the big boys would be nice. And as for the Editors don't have the time you have come full circle again it's all done for money and figures, how many books / mags will it shift. I suppose it is due to the fact that I always thought of writing as an art form like painting or sculpture. Delicate and graceful not just a tool for multi-national corporations to make a ton of dosh from and then cast it a side when the new HARRY POTTER comes along. Thanks for reading my nonsense and I shall say no more, I hope I have not offended anybody or wound anybody up. Cheers. Si.

Simon, Small Press mags have NOTHING to do with 'Womans Weekly' glossies (who are, if anything, the strictest of them all, as regards layout, presentation, curt rejection slips and grammar etc). Here's a list of small press mags which you can take a look at if you like: ...nothing to do with 'a coffee morning read of love and betrayal'...some of the finest writers of short fiction and poetry are to be found within their pages. In fact, many of the people (men and women) who write for the 'glossies' do so to earn their bread and butter and submit their literary work to the small presses. And look, most small press editors are running their mags on a shoestring - they're doing it for love. Ok, the pay isn't brill (hence the subs to the 'glossies' where the pay IS pretty good - often £200 or more for a 1500 word story)and often consists of only a free copy of the mag but, believe me, the kudos of being published in one of them is far greater than having any number of stories in the...er...'Womans Weekly'. Orbis, for example, is a literary small press poetry and prose mag that has been established for more than 30 years and being published therein is no small feat. Myslexia is another goody, as are BuzzWords and Cadenza. There are loads more. Take a look, you might be surprised :-)

Thanks Andrea...I shall and thanks for the discourse. Si.

Charmed, I'm sure :-)

This book published Si was a deal where they gave you tons of the green stuff. Or is one of those where you paid them to publish your tale. Sorry if thats nosey, but i get it off me Mother.

Hi Flash, no nosey at all. The book is a POD (print on demand) and yes I did pay to have it published (not as much as what I thought). This was a last course of action as I had been rejected by Traditional publishers, 'NOT WHAT WE'RE AFTER', 'NOT TAKING ON NEW AUTHORS' Etc. And I was getting very impatient to see my work in print. Now I know the old adage of 'NEVER PAY TO HAVE YOUR WORK IN PRINT' but that's cobblers. I checked out many POD publishers and yes, some were very expensive and ripped you off. The one that I'm in has been (touch wood) very good and supportive. My book has a British Library Shelfmark and so far reviews have been good and libraries have taken it, so can't really complain. I must stress at this point that this is in no way linked to VANITY PUBLISHING who take anything, most POD publishers do reject an awful lot of rubbish, just like what Andrea was talking about earlier. I have a piece about POD on my website. www.murphysmadhouse.co.uk You'll find it at the bottom of the Fiction page. Cheers. Si. Probably get loads of slagging off now from people who disaprove of POD...well I have already had it from silly old buggers who knew naff all. Just thought I would get that in.

I hope I have not upset you Andrea, I do not wish to sound condescending or patronising. I was not trying to say you or publishers and other editors are ignorant. If I came across like that then I apologise. I was just trying to fight for the Grammatically and punctually useless git...to which I'm one. With maybe just a few wise words from the big boys. I totally agree with you that we need grammar and punctuation done correctly; I was just trying to point out (and making a pig ears of it) that many good stories are over looked due to this problem. Again please accept my apologies. Simon.

Don't be silly, Si - it takes a lot more than that to upset me! And I agree with you re POD's. I'm curious to know which POD publisher you used...

That's ok then! I used Mediaworld Pr Ltd based in Leeds UK. They have been very supportive to me and my book. Si.

Ah, thanks - will inspect - hope they have a website :-)