I before E...

It's vital to stay up to date Ewan. Think of the exciting new decimal coinage. So much easier and more efficient. Bugger, you caught me in mid-edit.

Shawly.

Rite.

Keith? I pronounce it 'Keeth' ... or does the rule not stretch to proper nouns? jude

"Still worse though, the spelling expert appeared to be unaware of the rest of the rhyme, as was the primary school headteacher". The former surprises me but not the latter. My sister is a deputy head. To become a teacher you need a degree and a PGCE and only a C grade in O level/ GCSE English. My sister's degree is in music, she isn't academic at all. One can assume the headteacher qualification doesn't include any basic literacy since I know lots of teachers who don't have a clue. Too many people are semi-literate airheads with delusions of being well-educated just because they have a degree. In my work, whenever I employ a new member of administrative staff, I have to give them literacy tests as part of their interview. This usually involves giving them a dictated letter on Dictaphone to type up after I have disabled the spell-checker in the word processing programme. I also include lots of commonly misused words such as 'where, were and we're' and 'their, there and they're'. I also request they sign off appropriately to see if they know when to use faithfully rather than sincerely. What I find depressing is that few people under the age of forty come anywhere close to a perfect score. My spelling isn't the best but at least I understand the rules and I know when to check if I am unsure. What would be really useful is a literacy society a bit like Mensa, where you are tested under exam conditions. Membership of this would save employees having to administer tests themselves. If membership gave employees a competitive edge, more people might take the time to learn grammar, punctuation and spelling.

"I think generations of grown-up children have been cheated of this understanding because more than one generation of teachers has told them it isn't important." That's why I thank God for dear old Mrs Pavi who taught me for one year when I was aged 8 to 9. She passed on two things - the importance of correct English and a love of literature, especially poetry. Even twenty years ago she was a dying breed. I also had two very good English teachers in my first two years of secondary school but after that it was awful. However, since the seed was planted I took it upon myself to teach myself later on in life. In fact, I would say much of my learning from eighteen to starting my MA aged thirty was remedial, compensating for a very poor state education, not in some inner city deprived area but a leading Catholic comprehensive in an expensive area of Surrey. It is really quite shameful and inexcusable. jude

Karl Wiggins (an old regular on this site) always said the most useful thing he learned at school were the times tables. As a contruction manager he said it made his life much easier, instantly knowing what seven twelves are. Fortunately, times tables are still on the national curriculum, for now anyway. Similarly, everyone needs basic letter writing and other literacy skills. If the fireman wants to progress to be station chief or whatever they call it, he will need to be literate. I put in a complaint about my local housing office for sending me a letter which was so lacking in literacy standard, it was disgusting. You could argue, it didn't matter because the meaning could be deciphered, but it does matter because I found it insulting (to be sent something that bad in terms of spelling, grammar and punctuation, I am not implying the meaning was insulting). jude

Unfortunately, that is too true. I wept when I saw a cauldron for sale in a pagan shop window in Glastonbury for 2K. TWO GRAND! It beggars belief. Our only hope is cognitive enhancement, sadly the realm of sci-fi at present. jude

I started primary school in 1960. The priority back then was on the 'three R's'; Reading, Writing and Arithmatic - which considering that only one of them started with an 'R' was a bit bloody confusing straight away. With regard to reading and writing the emphasis was initially put on what was considered the fundamentals i.e. spelling, punctuation, tenses (past, present, future). I stress that punctuation was initially confined to 'Full stops' and 'Capital letters' and travelled a fairly shallow learning curve from there. When going through my children's homework, I noticed a consistent lack of emphasis on these so-called fundamentals, particularly spelling. I approached the various teachers with regard to same. I was informed that, it was felt that dedicating an inordinate amount of time to correction of misspellings and/or tenses curtailed the young pupils expressive licence; it basically held them back! So a sentence that read: 'I will b cumin from dare yesterde' should not be fussed over because the meaning was fairly clear and the expression was of more import than the grammar, spelling or tense; ridiculous! I find the 'Americanisation' of the 'English' dictionary rather annoying too. For my part I feel that having your 'arse kicked' should (even at this base level) mean, having your bum impacted by somebody's foot whereas having your 'ass kicked' should inform that, some reprobate has assaulted your donkey. It would also appear that any word that we can 'make up' - as long as it becomes popular/fashionable and much used - is eligible to become entered in the English dictionary. I realise that language has evolved and will continue to do so but; New Words in the Concise Oxford English Dictionary: noogie n. N. Amer. informal an instance of rubbing a person's head with one's knuckles, as a prank or to express affection. please!!!!!! Maybe I am old fashioned, maybe I'm totally wrong but what do you think? p.s. Amongst all the toys and 'playstation' games last Christmas, I bought my young kids a really good dictionary and there is five euro reward up for grabs every week in our house for the most interesting word and best explanation - runner up gets 2 euro and 3rd gets 1 euro. Anyone with kids, try it! It's actually fun!!

"Amongst all the toys and 'playstation' games last Christmas, I bought my young kids a really good dictionary ..." Whilst I agree entirely in principle, I am terrified of ending up like 'Victorian Dad' in the Viz cartoon strip. In one episode he gives his children a stick and hoop as a Christmas present and tells them they will be attending church service for "three hours of hypocrisy in sub zero temperatures" but only after he has administered their daily beating. I remember the resentment I harboured towards my own father who outlawed television and Mcdonalds and all other things that corrupt and gave us piles of second hand books in our stockings. I think it is a case of balance. Glad to hear that you gave them the toys and playstation games as well Shamrock! jude

Yea well, old Oscar also equated a 'gay day' to sitting round naked with a few lads, sharing a hard-on. Which was quite progressive of its time when you consider that most of his peers would have immediately thought of a picnic by the river.

Was one of Oscars mates called Big Mac? Well he was Irish.

I like McDonalds. I had a very nice Texan burger on Saturday. Some people don't like the food which is fine. Others don't like Global Corporations which is, to an extent, also fine. The people who annoy me though are the 'food snobs' who only boycott fast food because of its association with a lower cultural capital. These are usually the same people who think going to the Proms' last night or wandering around an art exhibition plugged into one of those audio guides is classy. Ha ha! jude

Valid reason! I didn't think you were a claphamite food snob, there aren't too many of those around here fortunately. I agree that homemade burgers are nicer but I spend entire days traipsing around jumble sales buying books and if I want hot food on the go, fast food gives best value for money. I don't think the food is poor. It isn't the best, but I still like it. So does my former Michelin restaurant chef boyfriend. I'd rather pay <£3 for a burger than £6 for a rustic sun-dried tomato bloomer sandwich from some shitty organic lifestyle deli. jude

I do and often take a packed lunch but alas the portable microwave for something hot has yet to be invented though I'm sure the Japanese are working on it. jude

Got one.... heinous. It could be argued that 'neither' counts but only if you say it 'neether' rather than 'niyther'. jude

Wot evva!

Eee I give up!