Enculturation

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Enculturation

Following on from another thread (sort of...)

Teens are now to have culture lessons at school.

'Ministers are concerned that children from poorer families miss out on top arts events because their parents cannot afford tickets.'

Can anyone else see the problem with this premise? There are plenty of 'poor' families (especially in big cities) who take full advantage of free museums, art galleries and other so-called (almost laughably perhaps) high-culture activities (and why do people assume that theatre is better than cinematics or baroch better than rap?) Surely the problem is that parents can only pass on what they themselves have.

And parental and academic nurture is I think a small part of the equation. For example, people look at my family and see 6 children who play 9 musical instruments between us (1 to orchestral level, 4 instruments to grade 6 and above and all of us play at least one instrument). The assumption is our parents were music lovers who paid for music lessons and applauded us at every turn. In fact my father is tone deaf, thinks music as an academic discipline is a waste of time and forbade practising indoors so we could only practice for a short time each day out in the garden or garage on battered instruments on loan from the school. Lessons were either shared lessons (free from the council), paid for with paper-round money or from teach-yourself books.

I think there is more 'nature' than 'nurture' than we give credit for in the 'how our kids turn out' debate although nurture is of course important.
I don't see how trying to spoon feed kids 'culture' is going to help. In fact when I look at an average middle class 12 year old's life, that is so strictly regimented by pushy parents who map out their every waking hour from homework to viola lessons to horseriding, I think it is crushing true creativity by not allowing them to ever be bored or to find space. And it is our deepest creative selves that find solace in all kinds of art. Poeta nascitur non fit!

I think it's both good and bad. Raising a nation of Philistines is a mistake. And, a few generations into the process, the concept of culture is lost. That's the fear behind this initiative, I believe. As you've hinted, teaching children to love something/idea of something makes more sense than looking and pointing, which can simply induce boredom. I believe to teach people to love the idea of something they need to be around people who love it too, (or to have had contact with them.) And that's something which you can't get out of a curriculum. My latest killing is: http://www.bookscape.co.uk/short_stories/human_sacrifice.php
Has all the hallmarks of yet another ham-fisted government initiative stymied from what it might of been by nobody coughing up the cash. I read somewhere that it amounts to £15 per child, which wouldn't pay for the one theatre ticket I've bought in the past three years. I can only imagine theatres and classical music concerts will suffer from yet more bored school-children herded in against their will. And no doubt it will be yet more work for teachers. I'm generally with Jude, people come to these things by themselves and in their own time, which is more often tham not later in life than teenagerhood. You can take a horse to water and all that.

 

There's nothing more selfish than a yummy mummy dragging her offsping around a gallery for a sunday afternoon enrichment session. Until the day little Toby says, "Mummy, oh please, please can we see the exhibition encompassing realism, impressionism and non-objective painting...they've got Kandinsky, Tatlin and Malevich" ... do the rest of the world a favour and leave them at home! So agree with Maddan, that having this effect en mass would be awful! jude

 

The above comment do seem, to me at least, to begin from the proposition that you're coming from a situation where you know what's out there and have family / friends that are ready to facilitate you if you fancy accessing it. If we hadn't gone to the theatre with the school, or art galleries, then I certainly wouldn't be going as an adult. Those experiences suggested to me that there was another world out there that was mine to claim. Same with reading. If I hadn't done English Lit, I wouldn't have known anything about the wider world of books. I don't give a toss about yummy mummys. I do give a toss about people who just have busy mummys, or daddys for that matter, especially if they haven't had the experience of accessing culture and cultural activities. Just because the people who do something get on your wick doesn't mean that the thing itself is necessarily bad. Picture a load of people who fit all of the stereotypes of working class people dragging their kids around a gallery on a Saturday afternoon. Wouldn't you feel different about them? I'm still behind broadening access. Even if you can't make the horse drink, it's usually a good idea to help it to know where the water is. Cheers, Mark

 

There are two issues. One is it necessary to have cultural activity facilitated (by parents or school) ... and I believe the answer is not. I only went to an art galley once as a child and seeing 'The Crucible' at the theatre for GCSE Eng Lit was my first venture into a theatre. I'd never even been to a restaurant until I was 16 or on a plane abroad until I was 22 but I love all these things now . The second issue ... since most children and teens seem to not enjoy art galleries and the likes, they can be a source of annoyance to others has absolutely nothing to do with class. I am simply passing comment on what I actually happen to see when I go out on excursions. If there were hoards of children being hissed at by their parents or mooching around, it would be as annoying regardless of their social background. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

 

If we hadn't gone to the theatre with the school, or art galleries, then I certainly wouldn't be going as an adult. Those experiences suggested to me that there was another world out there that was mine to claim. Does this apply to everything you do as an adult, or just theatre and art galleries?

 

Good logic! The point I'm making is that I'm a horse that was lead to the water and did drink. Those interventions at least said to me that I could, if I wanted to, access these things and my teachers tried to normalise it, rather than putting it on a pedestal. If I'm honest, I would have happily left my family and become the charge of my teachers with their mix of knowing about cool stuff and cultural knowledge and encouragement. Looking back, culture was my liberation. Cheers, Mark

 

I am all for educating the little bastards about culture, force feeding them Shakespeare and Picasso; that is knowledge that is worth having - but trying to make teenagers like things that teenagers (mostly) are not inclined to like, is flogging a dead horse (to use another equine metaphore).

 

I see both sides of this debate and I'm really not sure on which side I sit. 'Government educational initiatives' have a habit of being very expensive failures. I suspect that if it is caged in loose, easy terms and left up to teachers and schools to find their way in relation to their own skills and passions, the abilities of the kids in their charge and what's around in their area then, sometimes, it would be very good. But it won't be. It'll be limited by forms with tick boxes - and that will kill it. But I do support more 'culture', in the widest sense of the word, for kids.
Well, all i can say is that school trips are never really very good, or the ones i went on were not. I have been on better ones since going to college, but museum trips were also short and unappealing to most of the class-what ordinary ten year old wants to look at a painting by an Old Master and know how they painted it? I personally never minded that sort of thing too much, but going to Dover Castle to be taught medieval history in one hour and then spend the next four trailing around the shops? That's a poor use of money better put towards books and art equipment. The theatre was never much better, even if it was for GCSE English, which was terrible to begin with. The play was not the sort that entrall most teenagers, so unless they take six year ols to pantos, taking children to the theatre is a bit useless too.
I do remember quite enjoying the Roman mosaics at Fishbourne on a school trip. I think most school trips are to museums or nature reserves etc that have some provision for groups of children. I agree though that some were a dreadful waste of time (although a coach and small entry isn't a huge amount of money). But what I gathered from the story was that kids were to be given 'high culture enculturation' and that will be interpereted as art, theatre and music. If this is going to mean after school clubs in African drumming at the local civic hall then it's not really going to do much good but equally will do no harm. If it is going to mean bored kids under my feet at exhibitions then it is not only a pointless but a bad idea. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

 

I think it is good to expose young people to lots of different ideas and cultures and art forms. You never know one of those things might jolt something in them and you might set them off in a whole new direction that they would not have discovered. I am not particularly cultural but I would not wish to deny anyone the chance to become more cultural. Young people need to have lots of different interests to fire them up and distract them from doing drugs and binge drinking and starting wars.
Should high culture be restricted. I've just seen someone asking why should a literary set not be an elitist mafia? (Perhaps true of all the arts.) Well, why not, indeed? But I suppose the question is: How can you preserve a cultural elite and broaden access to culture both at the same time? My latest killing is: http://www.bookscape.co.uk/short_stories/human_sacrifice.php
How could access be broader? Nobody's checking for degree qualifications at theatre entrances.

 

This discussion has reminded me of an incident on our trip to Venice last year. We were going round a magnificent exhibition in the Palazzo Fortuny - which mixed up some truly great art with objects from the c Fortuny collection - many of which had been used by various artists for inspiration. It was fascinating - and difficult at times to differentiate between the 'inspirational object' and the 'art' - which was the whole point of it. In any case there was a school outing of very rich Americans - clearly either from a private school or a first year of college. Most of them were just bored stupid, fiddling with their phones and talking VERY LOUDLY about nothing at all. Some of the others were trying to be 'intellectual' and talking VERY LOUDLY about the art - but getting everything arse about tit. Then there were the teachers, coming round and talking to the kids, encouraging them, trying to stimulate them but unfortunately also talking utter crap about the art and the objects VERY LOUDLY. My point being - it doesn't matter if the kids are rich or poor, culturally immersed or outside of it all - if they are just overstuffed, blase morons who know they rule the world then they will never learn - just as those who believe that they have nothing, will get nothing and can't be arsed to do anything will also never learn. It's the two extremes we need to tackle - most of the rest of us have 'culture' of some kind coming in all the time.
Why only those two extremes? What about unheard voices? (most black poets for example) (minorities in general.) My latest killing is: http://www.bookscape.co.uk/short_stories/human_sacrifice.php
It is clear that this is run-of-the-mill misguided liberal nonsense. The only fair way to treat children is to brutalise them. Let's prepare them for the world they will face, a world in which nothing they do will be valued unless it earns them money; a world in which they will have to work for most of their lives in order to make other people rich and powerful; a world in which we are faced with social and ecological crises because of the demands we place on both people and the eco-sphere. It is plain that high culture should be a commodity only available to those with enough time and money to buy it, for everyone else it is little more than an uncomfortable burden on the path from cradle to grave. Only a sadist would want to suggest to an office cleaner that there might be more to life than making floors shine; it borders on evil to allow people to imagine the sunlit uplands of art and intellect only to send them to work for some ignorant bastard, whose only joy in life is to belittle his minions for fifty or sixty hours a week. Finally, I don't really know what I am worrying about. Nothing but nothing that is ever touched by the hand of Government has the slightest chance of achieving its long term aims. Fortunately for the lower orders state-sponsored culture will, if it has any effect at all, merely further dull their senses and cause them to gratefully to sink into their armchairs and self-administer more anaesthetic in the shape of just the kind of thing that suits their station in life: soap operas and game shows; ideal for deltas and epsilons everywhere.
Nice satire K! The problem is big groups of bored and badly prepared kids. If they have some experience of music it is interesting to hear it. If they do a painting in the style of they would be interested in seeing the original. Mozart is supposed to help your maths brain soo a little bit here and there. There is a real issue about how kids are viewed if they are not from enabling families.They are supposed to be factory farmed Deltas and Epsilons. There was a very good program the other day about urban vilage schools in New York.The schools were broken up into small 300 kid schools rather than 2000. The kids in the arts academy adored it all and there were very creative approaches used. All within the State system but free of the dead hand of it.

 

“Light one candle rather than curse the darkness,” Confucius is reported to have counseled. If even one child is enlightened by exposure to differing culturing mediums, it is worth the effort. In relation to the funds wasted by governments, at all levels, the cost is a but a drop from a very large bucket. Who knows what Einsteins, Ghandis, Curies and other great humanitarians lie fallow in our fields, until the wise and thoughtful farmer cultivates these crops, in grounds that have long lain fallow? The Nazarene taught teaching the poor how to fish in stead of just feeding them forever. He also suggested tending to them as we would our own brethren, for indeed they are. If the seeds do not take root, then it is not to be. But, to watch even one glorious flower bloom, in a baren field, is a thing of beauty that inspires all who witness it. Men and women are at their very best when they strive to accomplish and in doing so reach down to lend a hand to others less fortunate, to raise them up. A thousand years from now our deeds will be but little remembered. Let our biographers say that we were a kind and compassionate people who looked out for their own. It is an epitaph and a legacy that would resound through the ages. Vaya Con Dios, J.X.M
The only problem with Einsteins and Ghandis lying fallow in the fields is that if they do that in England, some bugger in a Chelsea Tractor is going to drive over them on his way to discuss tax evasion with his Surrey-based accountant. My latest killing is: http://www.bookscape.co.uk/short_stories/human_sacrifice.php
Eloquently phrased :), laughter is always the best medicine. J.X.M
Advance apologies for my pedantry but his accountant would (probably) only discuss tax avoidance which unlike tax evasion is legal! jude

 

When you've gone to all the trouble of collecting bits of Einstein and Mahatma Gandhi on the underside of your shiny, new car, you're hardly going to be perturbed by trifling irrelevances such as the Law! My latest killing is: http://www.bookscape.co.uk/short_stories/human_sacrifice.php
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