When is the next live event?

Or a Shoe Tree Throwing competition. Bagsy first throw. Actually though an ABC event would be a wonderful thing sometime soon.... (even though last time only about 10 of us turned up...)

We agree - it's probably not possible before Christmas but we thought a big one in January would be good. It will have to be midweek though as we lost £200 on the last one on a Friday night as not enough turned up. I'll get some dates asap and post them up.

Well, maybe some of us could meet up for pre-Christmas drinks and debauchery off our own bats? Anyone fancy a night on the town amongst intelligent (albeit crapulent) company?

Nice work. It'll be just like an office party, but without the crushing realisation next morning that we have to work with each other for the next twenty years of our lives.

I'm up for a meeting,Tim, though I'm out of the country between the 12th Dec and the 17th. A January meeting will be a no-goer for me as well, unless it's held in Tennessee, as I'll be there from 27th Dec - 28th Jan. Sorry to disagree with Mr Smillie, but Liana is right, the forums are Narcolepsy-inducing, and have been ever since the log-in was introduced and the place was taken over by the barbie generation. I guess everything has a beginning and an end and the forums are 'life, but not as we know it '.

I'd be up for a drink too. In fact I'm downing sherry as we speak. (not true. I just had a herbal tea and some grilled vegetables for my lunch. Shucks. Will Evil Hayley please stand up).

Er... I'm jet-lagged, Tim, make allowances! :-}

There's an Evil Hayley? Gwahahahaha! Join usssssssss...

The reason the last ABC gig failed to attract many attendees despite the success of its predecessor was, imo, for these reasons: 1. It was too close to the previous do and, as Liana says, it costs us out of towners a lot in travel/accommodation. This is demonstrated by the fact that no Londoners, bar David and Mark (prob. on expenses), came to the Derby gigs even tho' it still cost us others. 2. Many writers/poets are quite shy and possibly baulked at the thought of being filmed - having seen us guinea pigs screwing up under that added (and unexpected) pressure (apart from Tim, who thives on media attention). Tim, before you come back at me, it's just an observation, not a criticism, ok? 3. Many old members had already given up on the site and you can hardly expect the same old stalwarts to attend two gigs in a row. 4. The gig was announced as a done deal without any prior consulation with the site's members. Next time, ask for suggestions... clearly you won't satisfy all but at least you will know when you are likely to bomb. 5. More editorial input is needed. Any number of queries in the help forum go unanswered yet you claim to have an office! I suspect newbies to the site feel unwanted ... you can't expect us oldies to look after them, after all, we have been accused of dominating the site and so have taken a step back - I know I have - I can't speak for the others. 6. Six is the unwritten rule.

7. It was raining like a sonofabitch on the night and a lot of trains were barely running

Comments duly noted. We are trying to deal with all help matters as quickly as possible but there is only so much time in a day.

I say yes, please. I would like to go. Span x

'My view is that from now on, if we're doing London gigs we have to get a free venue and make the event work as event in itself and then Abctales members can turn up if they want to but don't need to made to feel responsible for the success or failure of the event.' I can understand your reasoning, Bobble. I guess it depends what people want out of the evening. If you guys decided to take it more 'eventy' then you could arrange for a set number of performers, have breaks for drinks - with a few posters or a few emails sent round the right mailing lists you could definitely attract enough of a crowd to make it worthwhile. If people are more interested in the social aspect, then maybe it's better to arrange it more like a bookclub. You know, meet up at a pub, swap writing, get blotto, make ill-judged drunken passes at each other, then cut all communications and pretend it never happened. I quite like the informality of the evenings, and I like meeting other site members, but I understand you've got to make it pay. Maybe with your badass performance poetry connections you could turn it into a happening literary night?

I never thought Friday night, or mid-week for that matter was a good idea. Mid-week pre-empts 'working' members from out of town as they have to get home (always late, whatever night) and get to work the next morning. Friday is seen as a weekday and though as they used to say on Top Of The Pops, 'the weekend starts here' it is still a rush to finish work, get home, eat, shower, change, get a train etc. I attended both Derby meetings and can say that, as it cost me in excess of £100 each time, that those living out of London would be looking at a similar sum to attend London do's. For a lot of folk that is way too much, so unless they are close enough to return home, (which is what I do), or can arrange some free over-night accomodation, they probably don't even consider it. The venue, although user friendly in most respects, is not really a good financial prospect. Not just for the management who have to fork out money, but also for the members who quite rightly object to over-priced cat's piss in the bar. So my take is this. We need a free venue as David says, and also reasonably priced drinks. Arrange that for a Saturday night, when people have all afternoon to get there and all day Sunday to get home, and not only would you cut the financial loss, but the attendance figure wouldn't be critical and may even increase. With regard to Colin's remark concerning the camera shy, I have to say, as the long-term Michael Winner offender, (apart from one event that Eamonn filmed), that if anyone had asked me not to video them I would have respected their wishes. As it happens very few people have ever seen the results, inspite of me offering at one time, to compile a DVD of various performances and giving it free to the site to duplicate and sell to raise funds. This offer was met with such disinterest that I didn't mention it again. It was my belief at the time that such a souvenir would have been popular, and would have increased interest in live meetings as well as earned some hard cash for the site. What do I know?

For what it's worth, I haven't come to any of these things in ages because all the ones I went to were very similar. You don't have to take that as a criticism - there are plenty of literary events in Norwich I stopped going to for similar reasons, and it's not a resolute 'I will not go', so much as a case of not feeling excited enough about it to get myself organised. I also find that venue very dingy, I have to say. And I find it very difficult to listen to stories in the evening - poems are OK, but stories make me go to sleep. I dunno why - I like listening to prose on CD in my room. I think it's the fact that you have to actively listen and look. All live events require a degree of concentration, whereas listening to prose at home you can tidy your room or whatever. But I'm over-analysing it. Basically, there usually isn't enough going on to make me want to put in the effort to trek to London. I thought the thing I went to in Hastings on Thursday was worth it. They had a mixture of performance poets, guitarists and page poets reading. And local TV filmed it.

Ah, the wonders of democracy. We've tried guitars. some hated it, some loved it. We've tried four different venues - and Extra time is the best of them, I think. We cannot possibly get a venue in central London on a Saturday night for free - unless anyone knows better! We will get this next event together very soon - but it will be midweek, without doubt.

There was obviously no 'business case' for me compiling a DVD, (many, many hours of monotonous gruelling work), then donating it to ABC for free so it could be reproduced on a 'on demand' basis for £1 a copy and sold to members for £5, either. Ah well, I never was any good at business ventures.

bobblehat, i fear you may be being a bit smunty.

'I don't think this is something ABCtales' paid stuff should be organising in work time because: (a) there's no clear business case for it and (b) a grant funder is unlikely to fund it' I don't think anyone was suggesting the abctales' stuff [sic] should organise it. I certainly wasn't. I think we're quite capable of arranging to meet in a pub without online support.

A complete fantasy - but I like the idea of one day having a 'live' event that moves around the country - with abc members as the organisers, reading their work out (or maybe other people's?) at localised events under the abc banner.

That is a most excellent idea. I reckon the land of Norwich should start. Span

Fine stuff from one and all. I do hear what you say and take full credence. I will organise another event in January - but I'm running round in small circles at the moment juggling too many balls in the air - and it's showing. I know - but things are getting better overall, the site is looking pretty good and running pretty well - there are more things to do and they will get done - eventually. I love you all and want to accommodate all of your ideas - but time and money don't always allow it. However, within the bounds of what can be done, it will be done.

How many balls do you have, Tony? Why can't you just stick to accepted foreplay like the rest of us?