Alice Li

I think of you constantly Ewan, my little lotus root. Vic and Guy cooked better noodles and in those days I thought such things were important. Can you ever forgive me?

No, Alice, you stink. You were right though, noodles are important.

Anyway, I thought your full name was Skunk and Nancy?

My name changes as often as the object of my stalking.

But you always return to your favourite... NWB

LOL

Ah, happy days...

Did she marry David Bowie? I love the chinese; Pork curry, my favourite!

Chris ;)

How strange. I had a very similar experience with Janet Mah (not her real name). I tell myself it was a narrow escape.

Hi Ewan

I really like this piece.

I know I said no more questions but pretty much everything you produce turns to cherry and given our recent Q&A session is there any chance you can please explain why

"the long-time couple,we almost were;
I smell star anise and think of her."

works better than

"the long-time couple,we almost were;
I smell anise and think of her."

and why

"Perhaps I wasn't sophisticated,
in the two short months that we dated."

works better than

"Perhaps I wasn't sophisticated,
in the two short months we dated."

in their respective places?

Hoping you can help & thanks in advance.
Or if you don't like me asking here I'll happily delete this.

Cheers

Well, have you tried reading them out loud? I did, before I posted the final version. It's not about syllables, it's about beats and rhythm: which sounds better to you out of the two versions?

I think if you take the couplets in isolation, what you suggest may sound more satisfactory to you. All I can say is, when I try reading the whole thing out loud, it sounds better the way it is.

Look at this:

the long term couple we almost were
I smell star anise* and think of her

say it like it looks

* I pronounce this word 'aniss'.

Now, behave! Or I'll set NWB on you! :-D

Good luck
Ewan

Sorry mate - thanks for taking the time to explain but I still don't get it. I'm seeing it in exactly the opposite way to you. When I read the whole piece aloud the extra words seem to get in the way. Maybe I've spent too many years counting syllables or something. Perhaps the only way I will get it is to hear it? There is a radio section to this site isn't there? Do you ever read your work there? Can we upload and embed sound files here?
As for NWB he seems like a very nice chap.

Anyway, I think it's a very entertaining piece and congratulations of your 19,000th cherry ;D

He's a very good poet at least.

Jupiter - it's to do with metre - the way the stresses fall on the words - the true master being Shakespeare, of course...words have a rhythm all to themselves, their own music...the way you read something is half of it...

all I can suggest is to read your work aloud and consider the way the beats fall in the words...

J x

p.s. great poem, as ever, Ewan!

Thanks Jennifer. I have been doing what you and Ewan advise but I seem incapable of getting it. The stuff I write sounds just right to me when I read it, I think I need to hear the difference rather than reading about it. I was hoping Ewan might be happy and able to upload a wav file so I could hear what he is saying, but I understand if he would prefer not to. The Ode Less Travelled is on its way however that is text too ;( but hopefully....

Right, o Jovian fellow:
go to this site

http://www.poetryarchive.org/poetryarchive/singlePoem.do?poemId=1537

look at the words while Betjeman reads one of his most famous poems. Listen to what happens at the ends of lines. Pay attention to how he says the furnish'd and burnish'd in line two.

If your poetry is sounding correct to you, you may be doing things like forcing the stress onto the wrong syllable.

Think about this:
proDUCE (pruh-DYUSE) a verb, no?
PROduce (PRO-dyuse) a noun, something which is produced, as in dairy produce, for example.

These words are not interchangable in a poem, unless you're deliberately playing against a readers expectations. In the same way the rhythm in a line should be fairly natural.

I wrote a lovely lover's song
the rhyme is alright but the rhythm is just plain wrong.

Does that sound good to you? It doesn't to me:

I wrote a luvver-ly lover's song
the rhyme's alright, but the rhythm's all wrong.

9 syllables and 10 before you count them.

I do think if you read Betjeman's words as you listen to the recording you'll begin to get it.

The whole poetry archive site is very good.

Good luck
Ewan

Thanks Ewan. I've had a look and a listen. I read the poem out loud before listing to him and there's nowehere that he reads it diferrently to my expectation. So, lovely as it is - and thanks for letting me know about the website - I'm sure if I search I will find an example of what you mean, in this case I can't see anything to inform me. How about uploading a recording of yours?
I take your point with the word 'produce' and as for your 'luvverly song', both
"I wrote a lovely lover's song
the rhyme is alright but the rhythm's wrong"
and
"I wrote a lovely lover's song
the rhyme's alright but the rhythm's all wrong"
sound fine to me but I guess choosing one would depend on the rhythm of the rest of the poem?

Anyway, Fry's book just arrived and I'm on page xvii. I have to confess that I bought this book against my better judgement and so far I see I was unfortunately right! Fry dribbles such garbage in my opinion that I normally avoid his appearance on tv like the plague and the first 6 pages have got me already wanting to put my hands around his throat and shout "Just f***ing get on with it you twat!!!"
so at this rate I may not even make it to chapter 1!!
However, having spent the money, and given your strong recommendation that it might help me, I will do my damndest to get through chapters 1 and 2. I'll keep you posted ;)

A)I wrote a lovely lover's song
the rhyme is alright but the rhythm is just plain wrong.

B)I wrote a luvver-ly lover's song
the rhyme's alright, but the rhythm's all wrong.

You seriously think both sound OK?

That said, what you posted above as versions of this are both ok.

I wrote a lovely lover's song
the rhyme is alright, but the rhythm's wrong.

I wrote a lovely lover's song,
the rhyme's alright, but the rhythm's all wrong.*

Are you hearing what you want to hear? :-)

*Incidentally, this would be ok too:

'The rhyme's alright, but the rhythm is wrong.'

The second of the two versions above, (B), which I offered in my original comment, is really a horror and would only be used for the McGonagall effect.

Sorry you're not getting much out of the book so far...

Ewan

Hi Ewan. No, A) is obviously wrong. I wrote the two that I thought worked ok.

"Are you hearing what you want to hear?"
Not sure. What do you mean?

As for the book, it is getting better although I don't think I have the love of words required by his Rule One which may be a problem! They are more a delivery tool to me rather than to be savoured for their own sound. I am much more a message delivery man and even though I'm now only on page 2 I am already googling to find what to call myself other than a poet. ;D

I can't imagine taking days over a poem, most of them flow through me in minutes, half an hour to an hour at the most with possible little tweaks later. From a metric standpoint you may well say 'ah well that explains it' but I haven't been trying to write metrically until you guys said that my work was hard to read.

I consider myself an imaginative thinker with a limited but sufficient vocabulary and with a skill in rhyming and short informative message delivery. I think my story telling ability is reasonable but I have no 'particular genius for metrical composition'. So what am I?

It seems that the pieces I would refer to as my poems aren't poems at all because they do not follow the rules set out. So what are they?

I have no need or desire to call myself a poet other than it's an easy and existing pigeon hole to hang my work on if called to explain what I do. I do not aspire to be metrically skilled, rather, having spent a little time here I see that it may be beneficial in message delivery.

So what am I? A rhymer? A limericker? What?
Is there a place on this board for people with my current skillset or is there an unwritten rule that such as I must strive to perfect the pre-defined techniques?

Whilst I am starting to understand that my text may be a little jarring to some of you, it occurs to me that metered reading might be a little stifling rather than liberating.

But there again, what do I know? On page 3 now! Should be interesting! Shit - no pictures! ;)

I just almost died laughing; you are quite right, I meant that a) was the horror. I am still wiping tears from my eyes.

There is a space on this site for everyone, I would have thought.

You have smashed the nail right on the flat bit when you say spending a little time on what you do may benefit your message delivery. Same for everyone, no?

You're a poet, or at least - like all the rest of us - an aspiring one.

The thing about metre is, if you start your poem attempting rhyming and metre you do have to stick at it. There is nothing wrong with blank verse (see Billy Shakes Beer) or free verse or syllabic poetry; it's just a different kind of writing - but if you're going for the full versification, rhymer thing it's got to be the whole hog.

Anyway, I have enjoyed our interchanges immensely, I hope you have too.

regards
Ewan

Hi Ewan.
"The thing about metre is, if you start your poem attempting rhyming and metre you do have to stick at it"
I don't normally attempt metre, I just attempt rhyme and syllable balance although once I get through chapters 1 & 2 I will try it on to see if it fits. After all that is why I bought the book.

"Anyway, I have enjoyed our interchanges immensely, I hope you have too."

Yes very much so and thanks for your help. Shall I take it from your use of the past tense that the lesson has ended? ;D

This is a brilliant piece. I love the rhyme and rhythm of it, works beautifully.