Any Day Is A Good Day For A Hanging....

I mentioned her nationality simply because I find her lovely and exotic - Tanzania is someplace I've always wanted to go. No prejudice involved at all. Please excuse me if I gave that impression. I *never* scratch my arse in public. I will cop to surreptitiously picking my nose, however...

"I think it's very sad that we live in a Britain where there are people like Jack who do not feel the need to thank their office cleaners." Let's get this straight. I'd thank someone for cleaning my floor if they did it right in front of me, just like you thank someone for opening a door, just like I thanked someone last night for giving me a tape, even though I only needed the tape because they wanted me to help them with their work. It's called politeness. Part of it is also respect. What I said was that it would be strange to feel gratitude towards the office cleaners for the fact that the floor is clean every day. I put it to you that you don't feel this way either, for the simple reason that we tend to feel gratitude when someone has gone out of their way for us, not when they do exactly what we would expect them to do. Occasionally, yes, we feel momentary gratitude, or put on a show of gratitude, for people's everyday efforts, but mostly, we don't. It's just the way things are - and if you told me you or your generation were different, I would not believe you. My argument is that the same applies to WW2 soldiers as it does to office cleaners - we might recognise their efforts and virtues - but is there any rational reason to single them out above other soldiers in other wars, or even above office cleaners who also do work that improves our circumstances, for gratitude? I foresee RD or someone jumping in here with a comparison of the demands made of a soldier's character and that of an office cleaner. Don't. Read the last sentence of that paragraph again and make sure you understand why such an objection is irrelevant. "And probably think it's terribly uncool to do so." Please don't resort to this awful, awful tack. It makes you sound like a Daily Mail editorial. You've got no idea what kind of world I might inhabit, and it's probably very similar to yours anyway. As a general rule, if you think someone's arguments indicate or prove that they live in a world that is entirely 'sterile and ungracious', you have probably misunderstood them. OK, inherited/indirect debt. First of all, how far back are we supposed to go? Do I ultimately owe my teachers for my education, or the government that paid my teachers, or the people that paid the government, or the employers that paid those people the money and the teachers that made those people employable, or the government that paid those teachers, and so on? The oweing hardly stops at Missi's generation. It goes back forever. Great - we all live with a debt we can never repay. Then there's this idea that because you paid your taxes, you paid for my education. Well, not if you 'owed' those taxes. If I owe someone a tenner, and I give it to them, and they use it to buy Mr. Swinns a beer, Mr. Swinns isn't in debt to me. So, do you 'owe' your taxes? There's a strong argument that you do - your government are doing work for you, after all, as are all civil servants. So you owe them for their work. No one then owes you back just because you've paid those taxes. Also, if I'm in debt to American soldiers of WW2, then I was born into debt. I owe those before me for all the good things about the world I live in. So I must also owe them for all the bad things about the world live in. So I might as well say that you owe *me* compensation for all the dangers and horrors of the modern world that I have to suffer, as much as I owe you for the benefits afforded to me. A comparison along the lines of, 'Oh, well it could have been much worse - there could be worse things you have to suffer if you born at such and such a time, or in such and such a place' will not do, because I can easily imagine, in turn, how things could be a lot better. On the whole, I think it's better to start your life oweing no one nothing and having nothing owed to you.

"The last £45mill. of our financial debt to America was recently paid, by those belonging in the main to a generation two removed from that which incurred the debt." That's a country oweing a country. And, sure, I can agree with the statement that England owes what it is today to American intervention. I just don't think *I* or anyone else should have to feel any gratitude towards America, or pay them any money out of my own pocket. I suspect you or anyone else would feel pretty cut out if you had to pay a relative's debts once they died. Of course, that's frequently what happens, but that doesn't prove it's a good arrangement.

I sometimes find it odd that I hear a chorus of “Thank you, driver” and the like as people get off the bus – it enters my mind to consider the thought that he’s just doing his job, which he gets paid for, so why should he be thanked? But then I go ahead and do it anyway, in the knowledge that even if the bus driver isn’t technically “deserving” of this “unwarranted” gratitude, it really does cost nothing and the best it can do is make him feel a little better… pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Jack: "Great - we all live with a debt we can never repay." ... Original Sin! ... (no?) :-/ pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Yeah, the thing I miss about Norwich the most is the culture of saying 'Cheers' to the driver. In London, you get off the buses via a side door. I keep pausing just before getting out and looking to my right, not quite sure of what I'm doing, and it's because I still haven't shaken the habit. But again, and like you say, that's more to do with respect and politeness and appreciation of each other. It's not like people, getting off the bus, think, "Thank God I'm here! If it weren't for this driver, I'd still be waiting at the bus stop! I owe him big time!" And it's not like if someone doesn't say thanks, people get angry and insist that he acknowledge his debt to the driver.

True enough, Jack. And just to extend the point a little further, the driver should be grateful to me for buying a ticket, getting on his bus and keeping him in a job! Actually some of the nicer drivers do reciprocate with a "thanks" as I alight from their vehicle... pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Jack-Hen>"I foresee RD or someone jumping in here with a comparison of the demands made of a soldier's character and that of an office cleaner. Don't. Read the last sentence of that paragraph again and make sure you understand why such an objection is irrelevant." You crack me up. Do you talk to yourself in the mirror? Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/