Street Preacher

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
Street Preacher

Was on the way home last night when I encountered a Christian giving out leaflets at Golders Green Station. I politely refused but the chap behind me felt it necessary to get into a ‘Haven’t you read Richard Dawkins…there is no God etc.’ and get all uppity about it. And the evangelist had no real comeback other than Dawkins- is- a- fool- type drivel.

I don’t like Dawkins because he receives an academic grant specifically to ‘popularise science’ which he has misinterpreted to mean ‘to gun down religion’. Also he tends to refute critics who are easy to refute (often non-academic evangelicals).
Never mind philosophy, Dawkins has many critics amidst his fellow biologists, notably Stephen Jay Gould and Gabriel Dover (I recommend the collection of essays against evolutionary psychology called ‘Alas poor Darwin’ edited by Rose and Rose). Gabriel Dover wrote an excellent critique of the non logic of the selfish gene theory and quite rightly concludes that there is far more to natural selection than the genome including molecular drive and neutral drift.

Professor Dawkins is associated with a particular world view that doesn’t logically follow on from his science. In a (poor I admit) nutshell, in the Selfish gene he says ‘this is how evolution makes us the way we are and therefore it is pointless to say life has any meaning’ which is a non sequitur of the worst kind because he leaps from his own discipline (biology) to one he has little knowledge of (philosophy) without seeing the need to build a bridge of reasoning between the two. He goes even further in his latest book by firstly talking about natural science and then shooting down that which he perceives as ridiculous or malevolent in religion. Because this is a famous Oxford professor writing, people assume that the conclusion naturally and logically follows from the first observations whereas even a fairly brief examination shows that this is not the case. His philosophical conclusions are parasitic on his esteemable biology. Before I get accused of being an anti-dawkinsian just because I am a religionist, I have a huge amount of respect for Daniel Dennett, the atheist philosopher and scientist who is often cited as an contemporary and advocate of Dawkins because Dennett tries (with some considerable success) to build the lines of reasoning from the gene-centric view of evolution and other elements of biological and natural science to his atheism.

So what do we have outside Golders Green Station; an evangelist without the wherewithal to present a coherent case for his beliefs being attacked by an anti-religionist either too lazy or too stupid to see that Dawkins has neither proved nor argued a robust and valid case against theism. And both of them feel the need to disturb the peace of my commute.

I wish British Transport police had arrested them both.

"Before I get accused of being an anti-dawkinsian just because I am a religionist, I have a huge amount of respect for Daniel Dennett, the atheist philosopher and scientist who is often cited as an contemporary and advocate of Dawkins" I'm delighted to see you as a Tory promoting the work of Stephen Rose, a prominent supporter of the Socialist Workers Party - I remember hearing him do an interesting seminar on 'the brain' at one of their Socialism conferences three or four years ago. I'd never imagined Dawkins' religion-bashing was scientific, any more than Stephen Rose's Marxism is scientific. I've always just seen him as a ranter on this issue. And if you want anti-religious ranting, Christopher Hitchens offers a much funnier version. The row is quite baffling, though, because there's no possibility of it serving any function other than for the people involved to let off steam. Does the guy making the challenge serious think the preacher's going to go: "Yes, know you mention it, I have heard of Dawkins, he's right about everything, I'll be off home now."?

 

I didn't realise Steven Rose is that way inclined (although I have had suspicions about Gould). I may be on the other side of the fence politically but his epilogue in the book is very good and Hilary Rose's chapter is also most thought-provoking. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

 

'I'd never imagined Dawkins' religion-bashing was scientific, any more than Stephen Rose's Marxism is scientific. I've always just seen him as a ranter on this issue.' I wish that Joe Public was discerning enough to reach the same well thought out conclusion. Sadly, anecdotal evidence would indicate that this is not the case. And one final point... I am not a Tory. I stopped paying up to be a member of the party (which I have become increasingly disillusioned with) some 6 years ago and am now a floating voter. To be more accurate, I am a free-market capitalist. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

 

Yeah, Stephen Jay Gould was always an alleged Marxist, possibly because it's hard to be an open one in the US and still have a mainstream career. Rose faces no such difficulties here, where the supporters of obscure left-wing fringe groups are generally seen as being cute and cuddly. "And one final point... I am not a Tory. I stopped paying up to be a member of the party (which I have become increasingly disillusioned with) some 6 years ago and am now a floating voter. To be more accurate, I am a free-market capitalist." A difficult position to occupy in a week when The Economist was calling for natonalisation of a large high street bank. Luckily, once Nick Clegg's been elected, the Lib Dems will be coming to get your vote.

 

Gould gives himself away in the section on society in 'Ever since Darwin' . When he talks about the false conclusions he claims have been drawn from IQ testing you get the feeling his original essay draft was double the word count and he really wanted to go on to say how society should therefore be organised and it would probably involve some kind of Marxism. Funny you should say that about the lib dems because on the political compass I am closest to them (in the bottom right quandrant... economically right but socially libertarian) but I care more about the economic than the social axis. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

 

I think the Lib Dems are poised to reinvent themselves as a European-style right-wing liberal party, which might be closer to what you're looking for. I think a Tory/Liberal coalition after the next election is as good a bet as any. As good a bet as any in terms of the chances it happening, that is. Obviously not something I'd be very keen on.

 

What we have outside Golders Green station is the painful death throes of folklore. :) Doesn't get any simpler than that, really :P In wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish, but enivrez-vous! The art is to be absolutely yourself -Charles Baudelaire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmhEMPN7y1I

~It's a maze for rats to try, it's a race for rats to die.~

Topic locked