New discussion?

Am surprised at lack of contribution to this 'intelligent' thread! Have been mulling your point for a while now ivory. Wife caught me arguing in the kitchen the other day. She pointed out that I was the only one present at the time and is now trying to book me in at some clinic. Perhaps we need to define 'instinct' before we get on to 'thought'? Mandy..... the forum is yours *runs to find a lifeboat*

frankly stormy i am disappointed ....

abc story of my life/women

Sormy, my original posting called for an *interesting* discussion - I would hardly say *intelligent* as then I would not be able to take part myself. Ivy's hypothesis is fascinating though and needs more scrutiny. I would say you need no language to think but you need language to tell others what you've thought. Don't you think this discussion group has got a lot more interesting since all the nudge-nudge wink-wink posters went elsewhere (possibly to the newsgroup alt.nudge-wink.uk)?

Why don't you pop around to Ta Chucks? Cousin Hilda will be having a few fowk round for a mug of Bovril and some splendid discourse, and you don't have to have a reet gradely fine Northern accent to be there.

does language precede thought?

That's a deep one. Do you have to be aware of language before you can formulate thought ? The obvious answer is no, because surely before you can think the words 'what does that mean?' you have to try to work out what certain words mean. Have you heard of the experiment suggested by King James I of putting two babies on an island with a deaf and dumb nursemaid - the idea being that they would grow up speaking the one true language, the one that all men spoke before the Tower of Babel ? There's an interesting thread about this in Paul Auster's wonderful New York Trilogy.

to be is to do - nietzche do be do be do - sinatra

language preceding thought---mmm. philosophy refer you to gottlob frege.

Scene: The pearly gates. Cast: God (Full of hearty cheer for it is his millenium) An Englishman (dead). A Scotsman (also dead). An Irishman (also dead too) (redundantly) God: (In mischevious mood) (Booming voice) "Normally, admittance beyond the pearly gates is controlled by St Peter who will test you on the merits your life. Failure ..... sends you to hell" The Cast: "WOE!" God: "BUT..... tonight is his night off...... and I will set a task of some difficulty for you" (Dramatic pause) Cast: "Forgive us Lord" God: "Tonight, admittance is by way of singing a song......" Cast: (Eyeing each other with relief) "Praise to the....." God: "....... appertaining to a...... DOG!" (The Lord was fond of anagrams) Stunned silence. God: "Now, who is to be the first?" Englishman: "How much is that doggeeee in da windowwwww" God: "ENOUGH! You're in" Sound effect: Creaking of gates in background. Scotsman: (Champing at the bit) " ....... Awld Shep...." God: "How I hate that tune!! ... Get in before I change my mind" God: "And now it's your turn, my friend" (Looks at Irishman menacingly) Irishman: "Scoobee doobee doo...." Apologies to the Welsh. Thanks to Eddie for the reminder.

who left the word 'of' out of the above text (between the words 'your' and 'life') for personal reasons.

who got the above wrong for wine reasons. work it out yourselves!

marks out of 10 mandy? MANDY?

i have a joke for you ... (i NEVER tell jokes but somehow thought of you lot when i read it) scene: mount olympus footie match between gods and mortals teams run out on pitch ... manager of mortals says to manager of gods ... "who's that one there ... half man half horse?" god's manager replies "ah ... that's out centaur forward"

Thanks for all the plugs, Stormy

*now feels guilty at not having sent other forum members any* How will they get their appliances to work?

BRILLIANT!! Now I'll stay here instead of chugging off to the Guardian Talkboards!

i have been asking about this. ivory's mother: of course you dont need language to think. cavemen thought, babies think, animals think, even birds think fishbone jnr. (ms.) : birds have brains the size of peas hmmmmmm ... *thinks ... maybe i need a definition of "thought" ...*