ABCtales = Studs + Vixens Anonymous

Yes, but it also said the following: "Poets and artists have more sexual partners but they also have high rates of depression," Great.

Oh no, now I'm a sex god - it's just soooo depressing.

I think perhaps the key word was "professional" - artists, writers, musicians who perform for fees or are publicly known names. Of course, it could be that they asked Leonard Cohen and his millions of liaisons skewed the sample.

Presumably, they found out the number of sexual partners someone had had by *asking* them. So another reading of the data might be that creative types are more likely to be bald-faced liars. Leonard Cohen constantly swears that he isn't a ladies' man. I think the quote is something like, "I find that an amusing thing to say about someone who has spent as many nights alone as I have." Apparently, the view is formed simply because he writes more songs about his lovers than the average singer-songwriter.

I've never had any trouble pulling...even when I look like a train-wreck. I just say Yeashh I'm a poet...come get some

This morning I am writing in the library and a man came over and sat next to me and admired my 'handwriting'. He said, 'You must be a proper writer with handwriting like that. It's beautiful - like something from a medieval parchment or something.' (He had nice hair and lovely hands). I looked at him and said, 'Ummm,' (very smooth Hayley, very smooth). He said, 'Well, if you're ever giving classes...' then got up and moved to the next table and continued to read his newspaper. He seemed fairly normal (as normal as someone who approaches women in lbraries can be). When I came to sit at the computer he came over and dropped a piece of paper on the desk. It said his name (Oli) and his number. Maybe there's something to this thing after all... (or maybe I'm just good at attracting weird handwriting fetishists..).

ooooooh... meeting mysterious strangers in libraries has got so much intellectual swank factor. So much more civil than picking up in a bar AND you don't have your beer goggles on when making the judgment. You mentioned his hair and hands ...what was his face like?

His face was quite nice too.. I don't tend to notice faces as such... just, um, demeanors... he had a nice demeanor. Jaunty. I spend a lot of time in the library, and even though I don't have my beer goggles on in here, I do sort of have my word goggles on -which can be worse.

I've never been approached by anyone while reading or in a library, or in any way as a result of literature. Lolita being my favorite book, and Houellebecq one of my favorite authors probably doesn't help. Anyway, I'm going to this, for fun: http://www.bl.uk/mingle.html There's a few people from work going. I'm going to put this study to the test - there's bound to be some creative types there. I just turned 26 last week, I'm going to find myself an over-60. It'll be great. Tickets are free kids! I've got mine! (I'm really going. This is not a joke) ~CaRDeNio~ PS I'm not really going with any intention of finding myself a partner of pensionable age; or any partner at all. Really.

I doubt it is your choice of reading matter that has left you unapproached in libraries - I think that men approach women more than women approach men, no? I'm thinking of every romantic (or not so romantic) encounter I've ever had in my life, and I think about twice I instigated it by giving my number without being asked - all the others were from either a) a friendship developing or b) a bloke giving me their number, or asking for mine. Does this mean that men are more likely to date women they actually like than women are? Are women allowed to just go up to a bloke and start talking? I'd like to think I do that, but it is highly possible that I don't. Also it could just be that the library in Norwich is more set out for this kind of thing... You end up sitting next to people at computers or at the desks, and stting next to people can't help but breed interaction. it's nice. And sometimes creepy. Is that British Library thing real? They do something similar in the tanning parlour opposite my flat. Seriously. (I've never popped in to see if everyone in there is all tanned or peeling).

Yeah, Hayley, it's real and I'm really going. So I started to read what you wrote, "I doubt it is your choice of reading matter that has left you unapproached in libraries..." I took that badly, I've been a little sensitive these past days. I've been approached by women before. They generally say, "Can you please stop staring at me." Such flirts they are, so forward! "Tanning parlour", eh? ~CaRDeNio~

Call me vacuous, call me shallow! I am only attracted to someone if they are creative. I reckon a lot of people are attracted to the ideal of the creative sort, wanting to be involved in the creative process. That whole muse nonesense. I reckon the depression statistic comes from too many hours spent sitting around alone pontificating on precisely nothing except for how wonderfully creative you are, that when you look up that boy/girl who was overwhlemingly desperate to access your pants, has seen right through the creative bullshit and gone. Call me cynical! In my brief experience and opinion I have found, that far too few guys can back up initial attractiveness with anything worth hanging around for. After all, they just normal innit. Like the rest. However, I do so wish I was approached in libraries by beautiful strangers who complimented me on my handwriting or maybe suggested ice skating outside the Forum. Go talk to him Fergal. There is always hope. Span

Argh! As if I would be that rude to anyone Ben! Of course you read on and realised I just meant women don't approach men as much, rather than your look would prevent an approach. As far as I remember you are a good looking bloke, and thus (if we all believe the ads or teen dramas on TV) you should have no problems. It really is a tanning parlour. At least I think it is. I mean, I've never been in there. *looks shifty*. Yes span 'initial attractiveness' is not always a good thing.. although I think I've tailored my intitial response to men to only kick in once he has said something. A laugh is guarenteed a prolonged interaction. I am wary of 'the creative sort' for the creative sort's sake. I once tried to 'go out' with someone purely because I loved his writing and he loved mine. It was a big life changing mistake. Yes, his writing was witty, clever and dark. Yes those things came from a personality that was insecure and as tangled as one could possibly imagine, and was actually quite scarey when we were alone. He loved my writing, but was threatened by it, and kept trying to destroy me intellectually, it felt like. (And I won't retell the naked reggae dancing story as it still sends a mortified chill down my spine). But I do like a creative type, as a general rule. But someone funny even more so. Like Jonathan Ross or Paul Merton or Ade Edmondson. I have changed computers and that bloke Oli is no longer in the library. Never mind, eh?

I personally would like to marry Mark Thomas sigh

Hey... I bet that could happen...

Hmmm... maybe a Mark Thomas. But not the Mark Thomas. he is married. Although he has just moved to Norwich. Span x

Thanks Hayley, I need a few nice words at the moment."No problems" is a serious overstatement, though. My theory is: if you like scrawny tall guys with no fashion sense, who are going a bit grey, then I'm your man. "I am wary of 'the creative sort' for the creative sort's sake. I once tried to 'go out' with someone purely because I loved his writing and he loved mine" Have you been reading my diary? And one other thing, while I'm at it. I'm normal. As in, I'm not an emotional cripple. I have my insecurities, sure, but no more than anyone. And I seriously think that prevents me from ever being seen as an 'arty' type. Just becuase I'm not all screwed up. What kind of world is it where you have to conform to being weird just to have your views on anything artistic taken seriously? (sorry, that was just a rant I needed to get out) Note: ~CaRDeNio~

So, the British Library 'mingle' (what kind of euphemism is that?) is on Monday. A report please, on Tuesday. Or maybe Wednesday if it goes really well.

from my muse.Not my boyfriend but adored platonic friend.He is older and has had such a top career he almost is a bit of history himself.I email him and he enjoys what I write I can hear him laugh in cyberspace. He writes poetry himself and carries notebooks around to do so..It is on both of our Christmas lists to find time for tea. I feel all twinkly Oh frabjous joy ants running around humming on my skin Buzz from my poem" tethered" always be able to return any "serve" i care to make.And not many can.

Full report to follow of course, Tony. There's an article about last year's mingle here: http://www.arts.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/14/nlu... I laugh everytime I thin about going. It'll be great. ~CaRDeNio~

Call me sad. Maybe its the lulling close of my day at work, but right now the event sounds amazing! If I lived in London, I would damn well be going. Span

JOIN US, SPAN....JOIN US. ~CaRDeNio~

I think it is on a work night, Norwich does not allow you to leave except on weekends. The special walls close up, the babies all start crying, the women all wash their hair and the men.... note previous thread. And if it is this weekend, I have to prepare for a big exciting interview I have on Tuesday. Well, big and exciting for me! It does sound fun though! Have a lovely time and report back! Span

Thank you Camilla. Oh no, I will die young! Like smoking, I plan on giving up poetry far before I am sixty. hmmmm, not sure either of those is true! Span

<<. What kind of world is it where you have to conform to being weird just to have your views on anything artistic taken seriously?.>> It's not that kind of world is it? Or have I missed something? Only a wanker or a fool would think that someone was arty because they were kooky or overtly messed up - wouldn't they? I wonder who doesn't take you seriously? If you are creative, you are creative - whether you wear big hats and long, thin scarves or not. The sort of person who's looking for someone overtly 'arty' is probably an insecure tosspiece. Also, most people are better looking than they think they are. FACT. I have decided to approach the world as if I am the best looking person in it. It's quite nice walking about the cobbles of Norwich thinking I'm God's gift to aesthetics. Span is right about Norwich. It locks up its daughters at about 9.30pm. A 'mingle' - . I love the choice of word. The verb to mingle is wonderful anyway, but to reinvent it as a noun is just great work. .

i met someone in a library once ... mind you i worked for library services at the time ... i went out with him for some years until he used the body chocolate on his toast ... i think it's a good idea to meet through similar interests at least then when the passion has worn off you can still talk about cataloguing or whatever ... i think oli is a bit forward dropping his number like that ... but then ... maybe he worked up to it for ages (i know how long you spend in that library) ... so i'd probably give him a chance ... and the naked reggae story makes me smirk ... every time ...

I mentioned the naked reggae just for you fish, you know I did. Now you come to mention it that bloke Oli is probably in here quite a lot, and I HAVE seen him before. I won't ring him though. I may chat to him if I see him again. One amazing summer a man in a traffic jam threw his phone number through my car window. I just couldn't see what gave him the confidence (or audacity) to do it, and imagined that he spent all his time in traffic jams throwing pre-written versions of his phone number through car windows.

ooooooooooooo coooooooooooolio .... that's the spirit!

"I have decided to approach the world as if I am the best looking person in it. " I love that. It's a lot like my reaction to rejection, which is: "Mmm-hmm...you think it would be a bad idea...Mmm-hmm...You say you don't like me in that way...I see [Brief pause] Well, you're wrong." ~CaRDeNio~

Okay, naked reggae story just for you Pesky. I started seeing this writer, oh god the memory is too near even though it is a good couple of years ago, and one afternoon, after we'd, um, been enjoying each other's company (actually I hadn't been enjoying his company and was thinking of the best way to get outta there), he suddenly lept out of bed and put on this really loud reggae music. Now, I'm no great fan of reggae at the best of times, but being naked in a person-you-are-only-just-getting- to- know's-flat and have them leap out of bed and blast out reggae can be a bit unnerving. So, I sort of lay there smiling, thinking, 'okay this isn't too bad, just smile, be polite, get dressed after a suitable amount of time,' and then... then....oh please I'm going to vomit just thinking about it - then he started doing this, this, dance. Naked. Like an octopus movement thing with his arms and...God.. To reggae. So I politely laughed - I'm a fan of people who are confident in their bodies - but he didn't stop. He just kept dancing, right over me, naked, to this terrible reggae. FOR AGES. About four song's worth. FOUR SONGS. It's not much of a story, but it was one of the most traumatic naked experiences I ever had. He just wouldn't STOP. And I was just inanely grinning while inside I was just horrified. The worst bit was that I think he was being enticing and erotic. RE the rejection thing: if someone rejects me I like to write it off as a character flaw in them. The only way to cultivate good self esteem (or despotic tendancies...)

And I always thought my little dance was a real turn-on... ~CaRDeNio~

oooooooooooooooohahhaha ... (pssst ... pesky ... is that there cardenio flirting? ... i'm asking you cos you ARE the expert on these matters ...)

this could be useful ... http://uk.dating.personals.yahoo.com/online-singles-tips/conversation-st... i only found this because i was looking for recipes for starters ... so if anyone knows any fool proof delicious easy and quick starters ... i have to cater for 10 tomorrow ...

it does really make me wriggle with embarrassment ...

I wish he'd wriggled with embarrassment, rather than in my face. I'm pretty sure it wasn't CaRDeNio doing that dance... I mean... naked reggae dancing... who would think I'd go for that?

it might have been CarDeNiO ... psst here's my advice ... ask him ... What are you most proud of in your life? Have you ever taken revenge on somebody? Why? Do you have any superstitions? If you could be a super hero, who would you be? What’s your pub trick?

I'm a terrible flirt. As in, I'm not very good at it.... ~CaRDeNio~

i think you were better at it when you were enzo ... cArDeNio sounds a little ... i don't know ... cardiganish? ... gardeniaish? ...

~ ~

I am interested to know why he changed his name... and why he has all those capital letters in it? And does pretending to be the naked reggae dancer of my worst nightmares constitute flirting?

Well, I shall leave the library now never knowing if CaRDeNio was sayhing that if he did the naked reggae dance I would find it delightful, or that if he found himself naked in my presence he would reggae dance his way to safety. I still don't think the story Tim put at the top is true either.

some things are best left as unknowns ...

Just for the record: I would never find a naked reggae dance delightful.

I agree, I preferred Enzo...cardenio makes me think of the pope for some reason.

Nah, It wasn't me doing the dance, I'm nowhere near as classy as that guy. So I agree, Cardenio isn't working. What do you reckon, 'Enzo' or my actual name, 'Ben Ingber'. It's got to be one or the other, I think. Views appreciated. On an unrelated note, I've had a bad week due finding myself comprimised by my feelings for another person, who seemed not to feel the same. And I'm reminded of the Simpsons ep when Homer says, "How can the thing I'm so sure of be wrong?". And that's depressing because when you identify yourslef with H J Simpson, you know things won't go your way. But tonight it turned out maybe I wasn't wrong about her feelings for me after all- but I have more than a suspicion it won't all work out in my favour. Anyway, my point is: The kind words are really apprciated right now, Pesky. Thanks. ~CaRDeNio~

i liked enzo better ...

Copy that.

I remembered upon waking this morning that last night I'd decided to drop 'Cardenio', but had no recollection of the self-depreciating tyrade that followed in my post. Oh, well. Anyway, on the name thing, I just tried to think of a new one - I briefly considered 2PeskyFergalBone but felt it lack originality somehow. Ultimately I think you're right: Enzo it is. I'm happy with that. Thanks all. Enzo..