Manners, curtesy, chauvinism and dating

Ha, funny you should say that, I hate Friends. During the conversation I had earlier about this, it was the other party that used 'dating' and I replied, "What is this? Sex and the City?" Enzo.. www.thedevilbetweenus.com

"dating" is uncomfortable with me too. I'm going on a date is almost inevitabaly a disaster while going for a drink seems so much more reasonable... Joe

courting! That's the word. "Are you courting yet?" My gran would always ask and, when I was old enough to talk, I'd say, "if you mean 'do I have a girlfriend' then of course I do, check out the three year old ass on me, I'm prime meat granny!" these days I ask my teenage nephew if he's 'courting' but I mean, "when were you last in court?" it's a different society we live in sho' nuff... err... WORD!

If you're still at the stage of agonising over whether to pay the bill or not (me, I usually suggest we go Dutch), then it's probably not worth the ordeal of a meal out together. I'm with Senor Spack on this one - why turn it into a ridiculous and uncomfortable ceremony? Perhaps I'm cringingly unromantic, but I just treat a meeting with a girl as an opportunity for both of us to have a good evening out, rather than approaching it like a job interview. That's partially down to laziness, I suppose, but it's what feels most natural. Now what I want to know is, do you offer to go down on her in lieu of dessert?

Heck if i were a modern woman I'd take a free meal. I'm only 14 but I think being curtious to a certan extent. Too much and you're overprotective, too little and you're an ass.

And hen there's a very old vaudeville joke: Man 1: Who was that lady I saw you out with last night? Man 2: Lady? That was no lady--that was my wife! *badda boom badda bing*

Oh, dear--- 'then' not 'hen.' And I can't even site a laptop on the bed as an excuse. *rented fingers*

I find the whole 'dating' thing fairly excrutiating, and will always meet someone I'm interested in for coffees or drinks in the day time a fair few times until I feel comfortable enough to go out for dinner. Then, when I get to that stage, I don't have to worry about how the bill will be paid etc because I'm there with someone I can just ask because i'm already comfortable with them. I don't mind having the bill paid for me, but will always counter that with paying the bill myself on other occassions. It's not because of any other reason than wanting to do something nice for that person. As for doors, coats, etc, I have no problem with that and it can be nice, but sometimes, if done in the wrong way, can make me feel physically uncomfortable, sort of controlled. As does the word 'lady' or 'girl'. Woman, is best from my POV.

Yes, I often find in reality, the first thing that would consitute a 'date' happens after getting to know each other. Funny what you say about 'woman', though. I think 'lady' is outdated and horrible. I would only ever use it if I were pointing out a woman to a child, "That lady over there." I don't know why, but that sounds right. When I know a woman well, or a group of women, I tend to refer to them as girl(s). But I think that can happen both ways. Like an affectionate deminuitive, nothing more. Enzo.. www.thedevilbetweenus.com

Yeah - I go with "girl" over "lady" or "woman" although none of them feel entirely without their downsides. Girl - potentially patronising. Lady - possibly sleazy. Woman - almost butch?? Damn you, language. And damn you, middle-class upbringing. Joe

ha ha. Yeah.. I know woman DOES sound kid of butch - and why is that? I'm interested in it, and have thought a lot about it (too much time on my hands) and have the horrible feeling woman is a bit butch because it is solid and not diminishing in anyway, whereas 'girl' denotes a lack of maturity or age and 'lady' denotes certain behaviour patterns I think, at 28, I am too old to be a girl, and so woman will do nicely. Not many of my friends agree. Mostly they prefer girl.

I prefer girl and feel like a girl at 29. Somebody refered to me as a 'young woman' the other week and it made me flinch.

I remember: I was working in McDonalds, aged 16 or 17, and a mother said to her son while pointing at me, "Ask that man for a ketchup." No-one had ever called me a man before. That story is pretty pointless, but I felt like telling it. Enzo.. www.thedevilbetweenus.com

I am afraid I agree with Rokkitnite. If you dwelling on such matters, it does not bode well. In my humble opinion you should relax as to dating etiquette. There is nothing worse than being on a date with someone who you are aware is plotting the mechanics of conversation and courtesy. It is wrong wrong wrong and utterly unattractive. Then again, I am ever in the situation of finding myself out drinking with boys, who either I only think of as mates, or they only think of me as a mate. So maybe there is something to be said for the good old fashioned date for the sake of clarity. Then again, who wants clarity! The confusion of intent is so exciting. I reckon it depends who you are dating Enzo. In defence of ladies, (and I do have many friends who are so, I just don't consider myself to be one) they love courtesy and consideration and the inevitability of a glamorous kiss scenario. So, as much as you can gather without having been on a date with her yet, what sort of girl/woman/lady is she? Span

Sorry, I had to cackle loudly at this thread, mainly in a sort of horrified dawning that I, in the halcyon days of my misspent youth, often never got around to the 'dating' bit and went straight into the sack! I believe I may have been, in modern parlance, a bit of a 'slapper' (or is there a 'Jacquie the Lady' to oppose the 'Jack the Lad'?). I blame it on being a Gen X-er; we had our boundaries all fucked up by our Baby Boomer parents. In response to the original question, however: good manners are something (I feel) that are going increasingly the way of the dodo. A man taking off my coat? Fantastic! He holds the door for me? Brilliant! He offers to pay for dinner? Excellent, but I would probably then insist on going Dutch, or just deliberately assume that the gentleman did not expect his payment for the culinary experience to then result in a culinary experience of a different kind (nudge, nudge). Actually, to assume that all men expect a bit of something in exchange for them paying for dinner is a disservice to most men, who are actually decent people. But good manners? Man, they never go out of style.

Oh Archergirl, the hours of awkward small talk and passive-aggressive manipulation you've missed. Allow me to buy you dinner. And I insist on paying. (nudge, nudge)

lol. Hey I got no clue on dating but talkin helps. Sides men (and girls alike) never act in dating the way they say they do, they don't act, talk, dress, hell they don't even smell the way they want. You just gotta have ur plan and play it as it goes.Besides how did this thread change from common curticies to how someone should be charecterized?

Last night: I paid, mostly. Enzo.. www.thedevilbetweenus.com

For a moment, I thought Rokkitnite was talking about the ABC threads! Ah, I'm a bit slow. Dinner sounds good. Dessert sounds better. (nudge, wink). [titter]

I fear young Mike won't be able to go into a pub - he's a 14 year old yankee doodle! Those crazy people will force him onto drugs at 16 because they won't let him have a drink until he's 21. And he'll smoke pure, very strong, grass which will rot his brains. But Mike, if you moved to the good old UK you could probably get served in a pub now (you are meant to be 18 but some pubs aren't that strict) - and then you could discover the joys of pub conversation. For the moment though just grab your peanut butter and jelly sandwich, settle down in front of a computer and enjoy the 'kind of' pub conversation here on the threads.

Yes, we'll try to keep it (relatively) clean...

*lurches through pub door,burps, leers at barmaid* allo darlin, fancy a date? *falls under table, snores*

Dessert as well? My mouth's watering already...

Ha. You'd be surprised what I've been through. Enzo by the way I think the pub owner's still looking for you.

Best date I've had has been in a chatroom...

Well I can't risk passing out at a bar (literaly). Sides I vowed never to get drunk from beer. It tastes aweful. If ignorence is bliss I'm the happiest kid on earth.