Honest Criticism

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Honest Criticism

"Everything a writer learns about the art or craft of fiction takes just a little away from his need or desire to write at all. In the end he knows all the tricks and has nothing to say," Raymond Chandler.

I've just had some writing of mine not ripped apart but 'analysed' would possibly be the correct word. It’s been compared to Christopher Booker’s Seven Basic Plots as a ‘Rags to Riches’ story.

The critic wants more on how the subject “changes on his fascinating journey. He seemed like a very likeable chap at the beginning and still was at the end. I feel as though you both know that there needs to be this redemption or rebirth moment. As we approach the ending there is a piece on where inspiration comes from and there’s also the piece about family. I feel these are trying to get at the underlying meaning of this journey, but I don’t quite think that the meaning is nailed.”

He is, however, very complimentary in his critique, stating that “I enjoyed it immensely. The beginning is particularly good, reminding me of David Copperfield and Catcher in the Rye. The writing throughout is stylish and progresses at a cracking pace. Generally there is great use of the Triadic Arc throughout, building tension, climax and resolution. Overall I certainly agree that it’s a page turner.”

But what kind of a thicko am I? I fancy myself as a bit of a scribbler but I’ve no idea what the Triadic Arc is. This guy is obviously well read and well versed, and I’m now going to go to one of the platforms at King’s Cross and stand with a dunce’s hat on all day long.

“Most critical writing is drivel and half of it is dishonest. It is a short cut to oblivion, anyway. Thinking in terms of ideas destroys the power to think in terms of emotions and sensations,” Raymond Chandler.

Hello Karl---Any criticism of any kind directed to anyone is sensitive. ie this nice person with the name dropping and the platitudes---are you paying him anything for say, editing? I always suspect anyone who drops names like a rainfall. And I looked up Triadic Arc (never heard of it before today) and I still can't figure out what it means. Write your novel---forget the critics and the writing advice from books. Write from your five senses and create your own niche. ie in my school days, it was always subject, predicate and blah, blah in a sentence. Now literary license says, simply write the story, pilgrim. Get to it, and best wishes. Richard ps. write YOUR story.
Richard L. Provencher
The best approach is to write what you want to write precisely how you want to write it, Wes, and bugger the critics. A triadic arc sounds like something a mathmetician would get sexually excited about or a structure a jumped up builder would suggest putting up in some stuck up git's kitchen in return for an improbably large sum of money (or is that a triadic arch?), it's one of a million meaningless phrases bandied around by folk with nowt better to do.
I googled 'triadic ark' - google asked did I mean 'triad park'? Perhaps it's a version of the bible story when Noah brings 3 of each animal onto the ark. Does Noah feature in your story at all?

 

All of that stuff is from or mentioned in The Seven Basic Plots. It's a bit chicken and egg: does the structure come first, or do we see it in stories/myths/legends/novels after the event. One thing you should know is that George Lucas namechecked Joseph Campbell, some of whose writing about stories and myths echoes things in TSBP. Any creative writing course will refer to Booker's book and also things like 'how does your protagonist change?' Some call this cant. I learned a lot from my CW course, but I'd never write a novel following this kind of schematic dogma. Thousands don't, thousands do. You'll get published provided you have a great deal of luck and a reasonable amount of talent, same as everyone else.
Well obviously Noah took three bears onto the ark, otherwise there wouldn't have been any decent fairy stories. 'the first bowl of porridge was too hot, the second too cold. the first bed was too soft, the second too hard. sod it, said goldilocks, I'll try next door'.

 

Those that can write write, those that can't write write snobby critiques. Enough said! ......................... www.thesatanicdiaries.net Http://afteriwaspublished.wordpress.com
Sounds to me like this 'critic' is so full of shit he's in danger of floating away. Take no notice of that negativity and self serving nonsense Karl.

 

It sounds as if Karl had actually quite a good critique and it was on the whole complimentary. In one of my lives I have to critique novels for an agency-- it drains the creative batteries but people if they pay for a service need an honest response. I hate the work, it is arduous and time consuming but it is legit to throw in some technical stuff. Are the critics any good? that is another question. Oblivion beckons.

 

If a crit of a piece teaches you something it's good. If it says you write good stuff or great stuff with no explanation it's a polo mint.

 

I was actually thrilled that he'd taken the time to critique my work. There's just so much I've got to learn. I always thought the basic plot (besides the sub-plots) of a lot of books is; 1) Our hero is sent on a journey 2) By a woman 3) Many adventures along the way 4) He finds a mentor 5) Big battle at the end 6) Which he loses 7) Almost 8) Suddenly wins the battle 9) And the treasure 10) And the woman I'm quite fascinated to learn there are seven of them, although I'm given to understand that SBP is akin to reading War & Peace.

 

I don't know who said this (about good stories); "Get your hero stuck up a tree, the branch that he sits on is in danger of cracking and then get a pack of wolves to show up." Inaccurately quoted by the way.

 

No WOMAN!!!!!

 

No WOMAN!!!!! ..........didn't somebody mention a pack of baying Wolves, Karl? ouch ... ouch ... ouch .... ouch. Stop hitting me ladies, I like it too much.

 

Criticism is the writers bread, alcohol helps to wash it down. A very true and bold statement writing friend. - Chinobus -

- Chinobus -

Criticism is the writers bread, alcohol helps to wash it down. A very true and bold statement writing friend. - Chinobus -

- Chinobus -

Criticism is the writers bread, alcohol helps to wash it down. A very true and bold statement writing friend. - Chinobus -

- Chinobus -

I don't think anyone here has answered your question. Well, not quite true 'cos the critic actually explained it for you within the citicism. The 'triadic arc' is rise (building tension), climax (or peak) and resolution (or fall). The three points make a kind of arc if you see what I mean. The concept is sometimes used in music as well as storytelling. Hope that helps. Helvigo Jenkins

Helvigo Jenkins

Helvigo, that's fantastic. Thank you. That makes perfect sense.

 

Vonnegut looks at The Seven Basic Plots and the Triadic Arc in typically iconoclastic style here http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/voices-in-time/kurt-vonnegut-at-the-blac...
THat's really quite interesting. I'm going to read that later.