C - Interview Transcript

Scripttech V3.06 ? Miyamoto Phonic Div.

Participants - Internee HK00387, Agent Constantinos

Cubicle B3

18:31 - Interview begins

AC: Name.

I: Soradina Mackinnon.

AC: You understand why you've been brought here, right?

I: Yes.

AC: Do you think it's fair?

I: I - I think it's, that it's unfortunate. I don't take it personally
though.

AC: You're not upset about the situation then?

I: No - no, I am upset.

AC: I thought you just said you weren't.

I: No, I said I don't take it personally. I don't feel that I'm, I
don't feel particularly persecuted or anything.

AC: Why should you feel persecuted?

I: I don't.

AC: But why should you?

I: I - I don't know. I suppose...

AC: Yes? What do you suppose?

I: Well, it's just that I'm only here on business, so-

AC: And that makes you feel persecuted?

I: I don't feel persecuted, it's just, well, it's difficult being so
far from home.

AC: Why's that?

I: For... for all sorts of reasons. It's-

AC: What, what reasons?

I: I find the city confusing. I mean, it's a great, it's
a great city and everything. I'm just not used to it.

AC: You're not a citizen?

I: I know.

AC: No, I was asking. Are you not an Empire citizen?

I: No.

AC: Right.

I: That was the first thing I said, the first thing I told, I said to
the Officer.

AC: Officer?

I: The uhh, the gentleman who uhh... are they called Officers?

AC: Guardsmen. What was the name of the Guardsman that made initial
contact with you?

I: I, I have no idea.

AC: You can't remember?

I: I don't think he told me. Did he - don't your men carry mics with
them? I mean, what I'm... you must have a transcript of the
conversation.

AC: You are asking whether microphones are standard-issue equipment or
not?

I: Yeah. Well I mean I'm just, I'm just saying that if he was wearing
one then-

AC: Why... why are you so interested in acquiring confidential
information about the City Guard?

I: I...

AC: Yes?

I: I'm not. I'm not trying to-

AC: You just asked me whether or not Guardsmen carry microphones about
their persons to record conversations... didn't you? Did you not ask
that?

I: Well, yeah, I did ask that but-

AC: Then I will repeat my question... Why are you so interested in the
City Guard's secrets?

I: I... I didn't, I wasn't even aware that, I didn't realise that it
was classified information. I just wanted to know because-

AC: So you don't know anything about City Guard operations?

I: No. I told you, I've just, I've barely just arrived here.

AC: Nothing at all?

I: No, nothing.

AC: You're sure?

I: Yes... I mean, except for things I read in the Guide, and well, this
whole experience now, you know. I mean, I mean I'm learning things now
of course because I'm part of the, of the system and everything, aren't
I?

AC: So you do have knowledge of City Guard operations and
protocol.

I: No - I said, I don't really know anything.

AC: You said you have been researching us.

I: Only in the, I meant in the Travel Guide.

AC: Travel Guide?

I: I read up on the Empire before I came. I, well, it seemed sensible,
like the sensible thing to do at the time. I wanted to have some kind
of knowledge of the place before I arrived.

AC: What do you know of the City Guard?

I: What, everything?

AC: Yes.

I: Well, I told you most of it I got from coming here... all the Guide
told me was about how the CG's are structured round different dioceses
and - it was mostly economic stuff, actually. I work as an Outbound
Business Strategist, so I guess that was really my focus.

AC: Continue.

I: That's it.

AC: That's all you know?

I: Yeah. Just about. I could be, I suppose I could more
specific about it if that's, if that's what you want, but you must know
it all already.

AC: It would be in your best interests to disclose everything that you
know.

I: Well, I'll try... I mean, I can't promise I won't forget something.
I'm not, you don't think, I mean you're not interrogating me, are you,
because I explained to them about my ID being stolen and everything. I
know you have to go through, through procedures and I mean, I
understand that but am I under suspicion or something?

AC: If you could answer the question at hand.

I: Oh... I read a potted history of the City Guard, about how they
were... I'm actually not sure on this, because I was pretty tired when
I read it, but it was something like... something about after the war
the army got devolved into - devolved? Is that right, devolved? The
army got split up into regiments and, I don't know how exactly but they
were, were split up all over all the New Church territory, and kind
of... I'm honestly not sure. I just know it has army roots or
something. I'm not sure how it fits into the whole, the whole Empire
thing but presumably the New Church gave over control or whatever when
the Chancellor came into power and then... honestly, I have no
idea.

AC: What else do you know?

I: I know what your uniforms look like. I know where this precinct's
headquarters is, now... I sort of understand, I mean it's related but
maybe it's not exactly about the City Guard, but I read a bit about
conscription, and there was a vidboard outside a shop, a grocery shop
and it had a little, it had a thing on it about the process and what it
is and stuff.

AC: How do you feel about conscription?

I: It, uhh, I don't know. It seems like a good idea. We,
uhh, we don't have it in our country so-

AC: Where are you from?

I: I'm from New Zealand.

AC: Where in New Zealand?

I: New Plymouth. It's just down from-

AC: What made you want to come to the Empire?

I: I'm a - didn't I already tell you this? I'm an Outbound Business
Strategist, and I got sent here to attend the EBA and to, and to assess
the state of, well, of foreign business strategy I guess.

AC: What do you mean by that?

I: I - uhh... I'm sorry, I don't understand.

AC: 'Assess the state of'... what do you mean by 'assess the state
of'?

I: I mean that I, I mean I have to come and listen to the debates and
talk to people and, and find out what's going on at the sharp end of
the market, really.

AC: So you're here to do corporate reconnaissance?

I: Well, yes I suppose so.

AC: How do you distinguish between reconnaissance and espionage?

I: I, uhh... I'm, I - I don't know.

AC: You don't draw a line between them?

I: What? No, no I do, I do, it's just defining them both, I mean no, no
I know the difference between collecting information and spying... I'm
definitely not a spy. I... that sounds stupid, doesn't it?

AC: What would give me reason to believe you're a spy?

I: I'm not, I'm not spying... I don't know. I mean, I lost my ID,
didn't I, so-

AC: I thought you said you had it stolen?

I: Yes, yes I did. It got stolen from my bag by some little boy.

AC: How do you know it was a little boy?

I: Because he was the last, the last person I spoke to before I found
out it was - before I found out it was gone.

AC: How can you be so sure?

I: He stole my Guide as well. It has GPS tracking in it. You could hunt
him down in minutes... I mean, if he's still got it you could.

AC: Why would a little boy steal your Identification Card?

I: It's, well, see he didn't just steal the card, he stole my purse,
and that, it had the card inside along with my Smart Card from home
and-

AC: So this, this boy stole all your identifying possessions - is that
right?

I: Well, yeah, he stole my two cards and my Guide. But, you know, I
mean can't you just check your database? I still look the same and I
mean, you've got my Genprint so can't you just, you can cross-reference
it against your database, can't you?

AC: You realise that all visitors from outside the Empire are required
to carry an ID card with them at all times?

I: Yes, I know. I'm sorry, but under the circumstances... you must have
contingencies for things like this, don't you?

AC: What were you doing at the Synod?

I: I explained this to the Off- sorry, to the Guardsmen who found me.
He didn't talk to you?

AC: The nature of contact between Agents and Guardsmen is strictly
confidential. That's the second instance of you making enquiries about
City Guard procedure.

I: No, hang on... I don't mean to be rude but I think I have a, a right
to know.

AC: On what basis?

I: On the basis - on the basis that I don't understand the system I'm
being put through, on the basis that nobody's told me anything since I
got here, and I'm, I want to know what's going on. I, I feel like I'm
being pushed around and I want to know when it's going to be
over.

AC: You realise laity are strictly forbidden at the Synod?

I: Well, I do now.

AC: So you, you didn't at the time?

I: No. I wasn't even intending to go in, I was looking for the EBA, and
I spoke to an old, an elderly man and he directed me into the
cathedral.

AC: You didn't realise it was not the EBA, even as a spectator?

I: No, not at all... I suppose, I think to be honest, I was a bit
confused, but I've been confused ever since I got here so I just
assumed-

AC: Did you not recognise Archbishop H?ek?

I: No.

AC: You didn't recognise Bishop Boone? This city lies within his
diocese, after all.

I: I half-recognised one of them... I wasn't sure. I thought, I mean, I
half-thought I'd seen him somewhere before but - it's like there's just
so many pictures and faces all the time, he could have been anyone and,
you know, I wasn't, I wasn't certain or anything.

AC: Which one did you recognise?

I: What - you want me to describe him?

AC: Yes.

I: Well, he was sort of on the furthest podium across on the right from
where I was sitting-

AC: That will do.

I: You know who I mean, then?

AC: Yes.

I: I think... actually, come to think of it, I think they were calling
him Boone. Was that Bishop Boone?

AC: What is the nature of your interest in the Ecclesiarchy
leadership?

I: My interest? I don't have one.

AC: Your feelings are completely neutral?

I: How do you mean?

AC: You are entirely indifferent to the Ecclesiarchy and its role
within the Empire? You have no feelings on the subject
whatsoever?

I: I didn't say that. Sure, I've got feelings on it. Haven't you?

AC: How do you feel about the Ecclesiarchy?

I: I - I don't know.

AC: You don't know?

I: It's just difficult, you know, I find it hard to articulate. I've
never been asked to, to just come out with... I'm not very good at
being put on the spot.

AC: You are concerned about my disapproving?

I: Uhh... well, yes, a little bit I suppose. I know you're a loyal
citizen and everything, and... well, I'm not in a very good position
here, am I?

AC: You feel your views on the Ecclesiarchy would prejudice the City
Guard against you?

I: I'm not sure. I realise you still have strong ties
with the New Church, so... I'm just not sure what to say. You keep
tripping me up on my words.

AC: So you view your environment as hostile?

I: Wouldn't you?

AC: Why should I?

I: I mean, wouldn't you, in my position? If you were a foreigner, and
you, you didn't know your way around the, you weren't sure how to get
around... and you made a mistake and suddenly you were being
interrogated as a spy-

AC: What makes you think you're being interrogated as a spy?

I: I am, aren't I? I mean, that's what, that's what you've been
implying all the time, that I sneaked into the Synod on purpose.

AC: Do you think that's an unreasonable suspicion?

I: I, it's not that it's unreasonable as such, it's just - I mean, what
I'm trying to, trying to say is that I don't understand why it matters.
I didn't mean to get in there - it was an accident. There's no harm
done... It's not that I don't, you know, I respect your laws and your
customs and everything, I wasn't being intentionally sacrilegious.
I-

AC: Ah. So you think this is simply a question of a religious
infraction?

I: I, uhh - yes, I did... uhh... your tone implies it's not.

AC: Can you recall any of the content of what was said, during the time
you were there?

I: Yes. I made notes.

AC: Did you get a sense of what the debate was about?

I: Sort of... I, I think so. I was a bit, slightly wrong-footed because
I assumed it was all to do with fiscal policy, so I was kind of
listening at cross-purposes, at first.

AC: But ultimately you managed to orient yourself?

I: I started picking up the, uhh, the gist of it. I didn't know exactly
what they were talking about.

AC: And what were they talking about?

I: They were discussing uprisings of some sort or another. I don't
know, they didn't say where. They were talking about, well, they were
trying to talk about how to deal with them but not much got, got said
because there seemed to be - I don't know, I don't really know the
history behind it but there seemed to be some friction between the
people, between the bishops talking.

AC: You didn't get the impression this was sensitive information?

I: It was, it was hard to tell. What do you want me to say? I got let
in, I assumed-

AC: Someone let you in? Who?

I: Well, I got let into the building.

AC: What about the auditorium, where the actual Synod was taking place?
Did someone let you in there?

I: Nobody stopped me.

AC: You entered through the main doors?

I: Uhh... I'm not actually, I don't think they were actually main
doors. I mean, I got taken out a different way to how I got in.

AC: How did you get in?

I: A, a door was ajar, you know, it was open a crack and I could hear
applause coming through it so I, well I assumed it had already started
so I went in.

AC: So you sneaked in?

I: No, no I went in-

AC: When nobody was looking?

I: Nobody was looking, but I thought-

AC: Did you see anyone else use that entrance?

I: I was only outside for a second.

AC: So, no?

I: No. I, you know, I was in a hurry.

AC: Did you think it was the main entrance?

I: I... who knows? I was lost. I mean, to be honest it looked like a
fire exit or something but, but I needed to get in so I thought it
didn't matter. I mean, if it was so sensitive why wasn't somebody
watching the door?

AC: Are you claiming that, although the Synod were debating highly
confidential policies on dealing with terrorist threats, you did not at
any stage question the appropriateness of your being there? Did it not
become obvious that you were not at the EBA?

I: It's not... things aren't that easy for me. I told you before, I
find it, I find this city confusing. I spent two and a half hours
trying to find my way back to my, to my hotel last night - I nearly got
hit by one of those City Shuttles. I've got a, well, at least I did
have a Travel Guide but it's no good because I don't understand
what-

AC: How do you suggest we deal with you, given the circumstances?

I: I don't - I haven't got a clue. What do, what would you normally
do?

AC: You were apprehended at a confidential meeting discussing matters
of national security, and you have no proof of identity. How do you
expect to be dealt with?

I: But... It wasn't that secret, there were Flyspecs everywhere. Wasn't
it being broadcast right round the world?

AC: The cameras were relaying the debate on a secure, exclusive channel
to clergy across the Empire. You genuinely think the Synod would
discuss methods of dealing with anarchists whilst broadcasting said
discussion to said anarchists?... Do you think the Ecclesiarchy is
stupid?

I: That sounds like a loaded question.

AC: Well, do you?

I: I'm, I'm not sure. I think they obviously have some, uhh, I think
you've got some serious security problems, haven't you?

AC: What makes you say that?

I: The fact that I'm sitting here now. How come if, what I want to know
is - how is that I got into the meeting if it was so hush-hush?

AC: Deception and subterfuge seem two reasonable possibilities, don't
they?

I: Do I really look like a spy?

AC: What do spies look like?

I: How should I know? I mean, if I were a spy, I'd have a fake ID on
me, I mean at the very least, wouldn't I?

AC: As you say, you had it stolen... What's the matter?

I: I give up.

AC: Would you like to change your story?

I: No, no that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying I'm, that I'm tired...
I can't keep up with this, with all this.

AC: With all what?

I: All your questions... you're trying to paint me as an anarchist by
trying to, by messing around with my words.

AC: Do you remember me accusing you of being, actually being a spy or
an anarchist?

I: No - I don't, not exactly, but you keep implying it.

AC: What makes you say that?

I: Look, please... I don't know anything, honestly, I swear to
God.

AC: To God? You're not an atheist?

I: Will my, wait a minute, I need to know this... Does it make a
difference what denomination I am? Does it matter what my beliefs, what
I believe in?

AC: Why do you want to know?

I: It's important.

AC: Why? Do you intend to change your response based on my
answer?

I: I... look, I don't know if I believe in God or not. I'm not
sure.

AC: You're an agnostic?

I: If you want to call me that - yes, yeah I am.

AC: Are you conversant with Ecclesiarchy doctrine?

I: Uhh... no, I mean I tried to read up on, you know, get to know it
but I expect by your standards I don't know, I mean I won't know an
awful lot because I'm not from here.

AC: What do you know?

I: I... is this important?

AC: That is for me to decide.

I: A lot of the things I think I know are probably wrong, or
inaccurate. I mean, the whole Empire's religion is complicated, isn't
it?

AC: That depends. Why do you think it's complicated?

I: You know, it seems, it feels that way to me - to an outsider. It's
complicated... Sorry. It's like, I don't know, I mean
correct me if I'm wrong because I get confused but, is it like lots of
different religions all mixed into one?

AC: You mean it incorporates a pantheistic dimension?

I: Uhh... I don't know.

AC: Do you think that it, that makes it somehow fraudulent?

I: Fraudulent?

AC: False. Untrue. A bogus religion.

I: What do, I mean seriously, what are you trying to make me say? I
never even sug-

AC: Wait a second. We're going to have to adjourn, briefly. There's
somebody at the door.

I: So, what? Are you finished? When am I, when are you going to let me
go?

AC: Sit down.

18:40 - [CUBICLE DOOR OPEN]

New Participant - Agent Mears

AM: Constantinos.

AC: Yes?

AM: I need a word with you.

I:

AM: I need to speak, briefly.

AC: Of course... remain seated.

I: What's going on?

AC: Remain seated.

18:40 - [DOOR CLOSED]

Participant Exit - Agent Constantinos, Agent Mears

I: ... Shit... shit!

18:41 - [CUBICLE DOOR OPEN]

New Participant - Agent Mears

18:41 - [DOOR CLOSED]

AM: I'm going to ask you to follow me... Keep your hands by your sides
at all times. Remain silent - any infringement of these rules will
result in the use of physical reinforcement. Nod if you
understand.

18:41 - [CUBICLE DOOR OPEN]

Participant Exit - Agent Mears, Internee HK00387

18:41 - [DOOR CLOSED]

18:43 - Autostop
Interview terminated