Smoking Ban - At Long Last!

Not that I'll be going into pubs but cafes, restaurants any public place YEY! About bloody time.

It seems a little harsh on smokers, and I too am a non smoker.

You're free to smoke, Peaceful. Do it outside, at home, in your car, in a smoking room on an oil rig (which are exempted from the ban). Just don't do it near me when I'm eating a cooked lunch that I've had to pay for, thus spoiling the taste and occasion. Smoking is an anti-social pastime because unfortunately smoke likes to wander around rather than cling to he smoker, which would be preferable. It reminds me of the time I was eating in a pub in a "non smoking" area and nearby someone lit up, who was in the smoking area. I complained to the bar guy but he pointed at the sign and said "He's in the smoking area". I pointed out that smoke can't read but this incisive observation was lost. Thank goodness that common sense has prevailed on this issue.

I believe in personal freedoms, but I can't deny it will be most pleasant to breath in clean air whilst eating, drinking a pint, waiting at a bus-stop, etc. Agreed re you incisive point on "smoking areas," Jarek! ;) pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

well I'm a smoker and I welcome the ban. In fact, I'm seriously considering giving up. I never smoke in the house, car... but I've always enjoyed a ciggy with a pint. If I can just reduce the amount of time I nip into the back garden for a cig during the evenings, I might just crack it. It's not a 'freedom' - it's a health risk to other people. How can you deem that a 'freedom'? - bit romantic in my view. When the power of love overcomes the love of power, we'll find peace. - Jimi Hendrix

Everyone I presently work with is a smoker, and they have all talked about the possibility that the ban will give them more incentive to give up... gotta be a good thing, eh? pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Apparently nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I picked up a cigarette after 8 years of not smoking. It took me 2 years of saying every day I'm going to stop today. It wasn't until I went to Nicotine Anonymous that I was helped to stop. I only wish that A.A. had had the same effect. I also have said to people, I don't give a monkeys if you smoke, but unfortunately for me if you smoke near me, I will also have to ingest nicotine and foetid tobacco smoke. I continued, 'it's a custom loathsome to the eye, harmful to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in the black stinking fume thereof, nearest resembling the horrible stygian smoke of the pit that is bottomless.' That always gets 'em.

It's a nasty persnickety moralising law and there is a risk that pubs will now fill up with the sort of holier-than-thou killjoys that complain about other people smoking. Pubs are, after all, places we go to slowly kill ourselves with alcohol and we have no right to complain about those who choose to accelerate that process with cigarettes. It bothers me that we have got to a point as a society where can no longer put up with the unpleasant habits of our neighbors and have to legislate against it.

it will be weird to have non smoking pubs - even though it's a more pleasant experience for the non smoker - there are definitely places i avoid going because they are so smoky ... i used to smoke and one of the best things about it was the bonding outside as smokers shivered together in doorways saying 'it's the most interesting people who smoke, isn't it?' - however probably now i realise it was just that those were the ones i talked to ... my fave pub has already been non smoking in most of it and it IS much nicer to go there ... now they have a swanky outdoor smoking area and the smokers will be able to go out there and meet each other and breed together until there is a tiny thin vein of super smokers with concentrated smoker dna who will take over the world ...

"Pubs are, after all, places we go to slowly kill ourselves with alcohol..." What about pubs that serve food? It's not a nice mix but smokers tend to like to smoke with their food.

I don't smoke, though I used to, and I still pretty much stick with the idea Fish mentions, in that smokers do often seem to be the most interesting people... not always of course. I will be interested if loads and loads of people give up, how taxation alters, because as far as I can see smokers are, as andrew pack once said, economic heroes. Far more goes into the coffers (coughers?) than comes out for smoking related treatments. Also smokers die earlier thus saving elder care, pensions etc. In Aberdeen recently I didnt even notice that it was non smoking while in pubs, but what I did notice, is that the streets stank with people chuffing madly as they walked along or stood outside doorways. Peeeuw. Yes, it is a persnikety moralising law, and it worries me where we go next. Locking up parents for feeding kids sweets, cameras on every corner, id cards as law. Brrr. I don't like it. I really don't.

Is health a moral issue? If you choose to die from lung cancer that's your choice Maddan, but you do take other people with you. I choose to die from cirrhosis of the liver or in my case, ruptured veins in the oesophagus whereby I suffocate on my own blood. It's a sobering thought. And thought is father to the deed. Why father? Maybe it should be parent? But I digress - it's one of my attributes. I've just heard on the Matthew Wright show (so it must be true) that 17,000 people die each year from passive smoking. I wonder how they felt about that? Oh yes, the digression. I've been given a warning about what will happen if I continue to drink, because on the last few binges I was coughing up blood. My best friend who also was alcoholic, died at 33 from ruptured veins in his oesophagus. He died within minutes gurgling and choking. That's why I've decided to chuck in this alcoholism business. On a daily basis. The thing with smoking related diseases is that you get no warning; once you've got 'em, you've got 'em. And emphysema doesn't sound like a whole lot of chuckles; gurgles maybe. And as an addendum and not apropos of this thread, I will not get pernickety about the fact that the American spell-checker on this site, doesn't like me using the correct spelling of neighbour.

Is health a moral issue? If you choose to die from lung cancer that's your choice Maddan, but you do take other people with you. I choose to die from cirrhosis of the liver or in my case, ruptured veins in the oesophagus whereby I suffocate on my own blood. It's a sobering thought. And thought is father to the deed. Why father? Maybe it should be parent? But I digress - it's one of my attributes. I've just heard on the Matthew Wright show (so it must be true) that 17,000 people die each year from passive smoking. I wonder how they felt about that? Oh yes, the digression. I've been given a warning about what will happen if I continue to drink, because on the last few binges I was coughing up blood. My best friend who also was alcoholic, died at 33 from ruptured veins in his oesophagus. He died within minutes gurgling and choking. That's why I've decided to chuck in this alcoholism business. On a daily basis. The thing with smoking related diseases is that you get no warning; once you've got 'em, you've got 'em. And emphysema doesn't sound like a whole lot of chuckles; gurgles maybe. And as an addendum and not apropos of this thread, I will not get pernickety about the fact that the American spell-checker on this site, doesn't like me using the correct spelling of neighbour.

I don't smoke (I was never any good at it) - but almost all my friends either do or used to. I've never complained about it, not because it didn't bother me but because it was their addiction and it seems part and parcel of being a decent human being not to make a fuss. Nobody forced me to spend my time with them - just as nobody forces anybody in to a smoky pub, even if it is to spend eight quid on a reheated lasagna. I am far more bothered by the people who let grass grow to seed - causing more three weeks of utter misery every summer - but I've never thought of penalizing them. I am far more likely to be killed by the people who choose to drive while I choose to cycle - cycle lanes are nice, but I wouldn't want them at the expense of roads.

They passed that law here in Philly not long ago. I know several bar owners who say businuss hasn't been hurt - all the same people still go, but they also go outside to smoke. Then they come back in to drink. Or to eat. Or to talk. I hope a few of them do quit. Cigarettes are the only product that kills when used exactly the way it was designed to be used. I know they don't kill everyone who uses them, but they do kill some.

Cigarettes are the only product that kills when used exactly the way it was designed to be used. what about guns?

"smokers do often seem to be the most interesting people..." I don't know about interesting, but thoughtless certainly! Every day I stand at the bus stop and watch as smokers finish their cigarettes then drop them on the ground. Thereby making the world a slightly crapper place. Who do they think is going to pick it up for them? If someone could invent a non-flammable portable ashtray they would definitely sell. Another irritation is when smokers or a smoker stands in the shelter at a bus stop when it's raining, forcing the (usually majority of) non-smokers also waiting there to either suffer their toxic smoke (8,000 chemicals) or get wet. Nice choice. Thanks for that, Mr. Exercising My Free Choice To Smoke It's a Free Country Isn't It Affront to My Civil Liberties Blah Blah Cough Choke Aherrrmphh (mucus makes an appearance), etc, etc... Quick facts from ciggybins.co.uk: - 120 tonnes of cigarette litter are dropped in the UK every day. - In the UK, cigarette butts account for around 40% of litter, in the rest of the World, they account for around 50 percent of all litter. - A cigarette butt contains up to 4,000 chemicals including Hydrogen, cyanide and arsenic. - Cigarette filters are made of plastic, cellulose acetate which can take up to 12 years to degrade. The most interesting people, or just really thoughtless / selfish people who don't give any regard to the impact of their actions? I remember going to a really nice Spanish tapas restaurant earlier this year. We were having a lovely meal when halfway through we noticed people smoking near the bar about 10 feet away, and the smoke nonchalantly wafting its way towards us. This was a restaurant, remember, not a seedy pub, as described above. We spent aroun £35 on two meals and drinks. We asked the waitress about it and she said "The whole of upstairs is non-smoking during the week" - but we were there on a Sunday. Needless to say we have never been back to that restaurant although now we can, obviously... Who lost out? We both did

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/ has got some good info about the ban.

The majority of non-smokers are perfectly reasonable people but a few non-smokers are militant non-smoking bores and this unthinking minority seriously impact the joy of living for the rest of us. Unlike most bores however the non-smoking bore has a distinct vicious self-righteous streak - often taking pleasure in the suffering of the innocent smoker when he or she is denied a cigarette. Fact: if you get stuck in a bus stop with a non-smoking bore it will not shorten your life but it will make it seem longer. I was once sitting outside in a pub garden with a smoking friend when a non-smoking bore marched all the way from the far side of the garden to announce that they were eating and would we please not smoke. My friend kindly extinguished his cigarette but the pleasure of the situation was reduced for both of us.

If we, smokers and non-smokers, were all just a little bit more polite, tolerant and considerate of others, would such conversations as this occur? pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

i'm a smoker, disappointed that they couldn't be more flexible and allow non-smoking and smoking pubs - then all the anti-smoking bores could drink in peace, and so could we

"Cigarettes are the only product that kills when used exactly the way it was designed to be used. what about guns?" Cigarettes are manufactured to be smoked. Guns aren't manufactured to kill people, at least outside the friggin' military. If you use guns the way you're supposed to, no-one dies. Can't be said for cigarettes. All of my smoker friends wish they could quit. None of my non-smoker friends wish to start.

how are you supposed to use guns?

Not quite sure, since I've never owned one, but I'm fairly certain you aren't supposed to point them at people and pull the trigger.

The civilian intention when using a gun is not to kill but merely incapacitate the subject. Aim for non vital sections such as limbs and the center of the abdomen. But yes, in military applications the intent is to kill your enemy.

If not guns then there is the neutron bomb - specifically designed to kill people while leaving infrastructure unharmed, or there's a bloke in Switzerland who's invented a euthanasia machine. Booze kills you, not quite as fast as fags but just as certainly. Many foods would be the end of you if you ate too much of them but celery is the only foodstuff I know of that is actively bad for you, if you lived off any other single food it would be the lack of something else that killed you - if you lived off celery it would be the actual eating of the celery that did you in. Obviously there's the electric chair, the guillotine, the gibbet etc. Every time you get an x-ray at the dentist it's killing you (that's why the dentist goes and stands behind a screen). Most forms of cancer medication will kill you if they don't kill the cancer first. So will cures for gut parasites such as tapeworm which are basically poison. Life is pretty much fatal.

Well there goes the smoking gun theory..

Nice one JRC. The great majority of drinkers drink sensibly and don't become addicted. I of course am in a minority there. All smokers become addicted. Unfortunately for the non-smoker in close proximity, they are forced to share in that addiction.

"Aim for non vital sections such as limbs and the center of the abdomen." This is assuming, of course, that one doesn't accidentally perforate the aorta or femoral arteries. They're fairly vital, I'd say. On a slightly similar note, there was a shooting at the mall just the other day; some homeboy got into a tiff with another one (he dissed his bling-bling, apparently, and apparently it was also a case of 'mistaken identity') and let off a shot, grazing the cheek of an onlooker. No-one was killed, thankfully. Who the fuck brings a handgun to the MALL, fer chrissake? Ofttimes I'm convinced that guns should be kept for the express use of firing squads to rid the world of idiots.

No. Bad idea. We burn them as fuel because morons are the world's only TRULY renewable resource. As for bringing it to the mall, maybe it was tired of being cooped up in the house all day with no one to talk to.

Great post styxbroox: "The great majority of drinkers drink sensibly and don't become addicted ... All smokers become addicted. Unfortunately for the non-smoker in close proximity, they are forced to share in that addiction." Sums up how I feel about smokers perfectly, and also states the difference between smoking and drinking as two different pastimes with different impacts on those nearby. I'm happy for smokers to smoke - just not for them to force me to join them.

To paraphrase my own blog... When a smoker recently asked me if I was "anti-smoking," after thinking about it for a bit, I decided that actually I was not & didn't like the tone of the question. People should be free to smoke. Like people should be free to fling themselves out of aeroplanes without parachutes. The issue (and, one would think, the ultimate reasoning behind the ban) is not one of "personal freedoms" or the personal health of the smoker, but the effect that smoking has on all those around smokers. It is, to surrounding non-smokers, anti-social and unhealthy. Why is it any more complicated than that? What other personal habit or past-time has such an effect on people around the subject than smoking? pe ps oid ... What is "The Art of Tea"? ... (www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

i get your point pepsoid but why is it so wrong for smokers who wish to smoke to be able to smoke in an enclosed area (i.e) a pub, with other smokers who wish to smoke, whilst non-smokers sit in a non-smoking pub and i know about the dangers and exposing staff to smoke. but if those staff were happy to work in a smoking pub (i.e were smokers) they wouldn't have been any probs it's a bit academic now anyway - the cats out of the bag so to speak, and no party is going to pass legislation allowing smoking/non smoking pubs

I think something had to be done (what about the freedom of non-smokers to have clean air?) but it goes too far. I think restaurants and bars and other public places should have been allowed to keep smoking areas providing they are separated off with fully closing doors and extractor fans and take up no more than 50% of the total space. As Martin said, it makes no odds now anyway. I gave up smoking on 21st Feb this year and so far, so good! jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net

I am a naughty smoker - I don't smoke at home, in the car or in the office but I do smoke when I go out for a drink. This will stop that, hopefully, and allow me to give up once and for all. I am in support of it as I loathe the way I smell when I get back from the pub quiz. It's not only in my clothes but on my skin as well. It's just horrible - and I've been a party to contributing to it. Personal freedom is a very complex issue. Philosophers have been debating it for hundreds of years and I suspect that we won't find a useful breakthrough in that debate here! There are clearly two sides to the argument re: the smoking ban so all you can do is come down on one side or the other. I do suspect that its introduction has been somewhat draconian (they had to tone it down considerably in Spain) but overall I am in support.

I've recently come back from Germany and EVERYONE smokes there ALL THE TIME. Even at the hotel breakfast tables. And you're lucky if your hotel has a smoke free area at all. This experience has given me a bit of a militant edge, so I'm even more in favour of the ban than I would normally have been.

I've been told that in Ireland, they're building some lovely canopy-type structures in front of and at the rear of bars. I hope that in time they'll do that over here, too. There are first signs of this round here..with new decking areas and stuff popping up outside the pubs...it's all modest stuff at the mo, but that's the english way. Hopefully next year, us smokers will 'ave some beautiful little outdoor areas in which to sit, smoke and dream. I'm putting off that quit because I might be missing out on something ;) When the power of love overcomes the love of power, we'll find peace. - Jimi Hendrix

"I do suspect that its introduction has been somewhat draconian (they had to tone it down considerably in Spain) but overall I am in support." Yeah, I thought this, too. I've never smoked but smoking pubs/music venues etc. have never bothered me much. The only time I've been wound up enough by someone smoking to remember it was in an outdoor enclosed space - a football ground - it was cold and windy, a large guy sitting in front of us was smoking and the smoke was blowing directly in my face making it difficult to look ahead. That's not an argument against public smoking, though. It's argument against people being inconsiderate. As has been mentionned above, generally listening to people giving you a long moralistic lectures about the dangers of smoking is generally more offensive than smoking itself. But I do think this generally a natural progression. Particularly in terms of the rights of workers in pubs, bars and restaurant. There's definitely a logical case for some exceptions - the problem is that if you say, for example, private members clubs can allow smoking to carry on then you'd get thousands of pubs and bars pretending that they were private members clubs.

Could smoking be seen in a similar way to slavery in a hundred years or so? Or will future smokers be confronted with this... http://www.evolvedgames.com/images/cover-dreddA.jpg ...? pe ps oid Blogs! "the art of tea" "that's an odd courgette"

no. i don't recall being ripped from my family, transported thousands of miles in a ship, and forced to work for a redneck

Well there are such things as chain smokers. `:

Two in one thread, JRC! Funny.

I'm probably going to regret this but I'd genuniely be interested if Pepsoid could explain how smoking would be seen in a similar way to slavery? Do you mean in the sense that most people will think it's really bad and won't be able to imagine how it could ever have happened but it'll still take place in parts of the world that most people aren't very interested in?

I think pepsoid meant the, "wow! Did they really do that? Terrible biscuits!!" factor. When the power of love overcomes the love of power, we'll find peace. - Jimi Hendrix

I'm happy to celebrate a new freedom - the chance to sit and enjoy a drink in a pub without breathing in toxic fumes. New freedoms are few and far between.

to be honest i'm surprised at how quickly smokers seem to have accepted it - there's a classic old hackney boozer near my office, and all the hardened smokers are sitting outside chuffing away, this could put off potential new customers i guess as they will have prior knowledge of what the clientelle are like, before they would have had to go in, and then buy a drink because they were too embarassed to leave without buying one

It could be a strange experience if you haven't even walked into a pub before they all stop talking to stare at you.

I think pepsoid meant the, "wow! Did they really do that? Terrible biscuits!!" factor. Yes, Yan, that's what I meant! Odd how some folk may think I was silly enough to suggest some kind of more direct link... :/ pe ps oid Blogs! "the art of tea" "that's an odd courgette"

still doesn't make sense mind

What doesn't? pe ps oid Blogs! "the art of tea" "that's an odd courgette"