When Ralph Met Lloyd

i choose my friends only far too well
i'm up on the pavement; they're all down in the cellar
with their government grants and my i.q.
they brought me down to size,
academia blues
(Perfect Skin: 1984)

I've admired Lloyd Cole ever since way back.
When everyone else seemed to be sticking flowers in the back pocket of
their Levi Red Tabs and donning NHS hearing aids with wonky spectacles
I was listening loud and clear to something else that was far more
bittersweet and enduring, something that reflected my experience and
pretensions. I did and still do prefer Capote to Wilde and anyway Lloyd
always had the better clothes.

The last time I saw Lloyd perform was in London in 2001. He was
showcasing the wonderful 'Lloyd Cole -The Negatives' album at the
'Ocean' in Hackney. His performance that early summer night was joyful,
funny and exciting, he had a bunch of brand new songs that were as
strong as he had ever penned and a cracking band in tow. It was a great
show.

Then things went a little bit quiet (well in my world of Lloyd anyway)
and I began to wonder if he would ever return. The lure of the golf
course may have become too much for him (he plays off an 8 handicap,
more of that later) or he may have just wanted to stay in bed and live
the life of a quiet ex pat in New York State. Perhaps he thought that
he had done enough and that he had gone out on a high point. The
emotions, commotions and doubts that fandom brings eh?

Jane is fine always fine
we're unhappy most of the time
we don't talk we don't fight
I'm just tired she's way past caring
(Why I Love Country Music, 1985)

So when I received a phone call at the UCL Bloomsbury in March asking
us if we wanted to book Lloyd for a show in the summer I thought that I
was having my leg pulled, (it was my birthday that day after all and
something like that always happens). It turned out to be a genuine
offer and I was beside myself with excitement and then anguish. I had
questions for myself that only a beer or two in the union bar could
answer, and the questions came in this exact order.

What should I wear on the day of the gig?
Which dressing room should we give him?
Am I going to bore everyone with my senseless obsession over the next
few months?
Do I care if I bore people with my senseless obsession over the next
few months?

I went home that night and played everything he has ever
recorded.

Happy birthday to me!

hey i was walking my bag
through a 20 storey non stop snow storm
Pirelli calender girls wrestling in body lotion
my head's swimming with poetry and prose
excuse me one moment whilst I powder my nose
(My Bag, 1989)

A couple of weeks later and after playing Lloyd to death to all and
sundry I get a call from his promoter to discuss marketing. Out of the
blue and in a moment of boldness I ask him if I can interview Lloyd for
the UCL Bloomsbury's website before he plays a small acoustic gig at
the Bush Hall the following month. He says that should not be a problem
and I should leave it to him. I don't believe the promoter of course
but hope against hope that maybe just maybe I can meet one of my all
time musical heroes. On the day of the gig nothing happens until
3.30pm. Then a phone call that is short and to the point.

'Ralph, if you want to talk to Lloyd you will have to come to the venue
now.'

'I'm on my way.'

The Bush Hall in West London is a tricky place to find, I walk past it
three times weaving amongst the raindrops, kebab shops and the fed up
locals. When I finally find the venue I am greeted by the promoter and
kindly ushered into the auditorium where Lloyd is sound checking. There
is sparseness there, just the sound engineer, Lloyd and myself, He
looks well and relaxed, I must ask him where he got his shirt. He is
rehearsing the beautiful 'Baby' from the 'Love Story' album. I am weak
at the knees with admiration of his new acoustic arrangement of this
lovely song. After he has finished and I have melted, Lloyd asks me to
his dressing room for the interview.

This is what happened when Ralph Dartford of the UCL Bloomsbury met
Lloyd Cole, one time student of this parish, poet and guitar man.

The coolest thing I ever saw
you were sitting there smoking my cigarettes
you were naked on the bare stone floor
(Undressed 1993)

RD: First things first Lloyd, I have to ask, how's your golf?
LC: I did win quite handsomely at Turnberry the other day, First time
round in 83, not bad for an amateur.
RD:I remember years ago when you were with the Commotions and they were
probably at the commercial height of your success, the Melody Maker ran
a weekly column ridiculing your golfing exploits, I always thought it
was a gag and I only found out recently that you actually do play
golf.
LC: Yeah, the Melody Maker used to think that if you did not walk
around in cap sleeve t-shirts, like football and The Cure then there
was something wrong with you. Melody Maker was the first paper to put
me on their cover so they spent years trying to make up for it. Iggy
Pop plays golf. Nick Cave plays golf.
RD: Have you ever played with these guys?
LC: No but I have played with Robert Forster from The Go
Betweens.
RD: Would you like to play golf with Iggy Pop?
LC: I'm not sure I would, I'd like to play with Alice Cooper, and he is
supposed to be quite good. You know who the best golfer is of all
musicians; it's that Country &; Western guy, Vince Gill. He is
actually a brilliant musician that guy. He is a middle of the road
musician.
RD: Ever played with him?
LC: No he is a scratch golfer, he has his own charity tournament each
year somewhere down near Memphis.

And you lie there without sleeping
and you stare at your wall
and you realize you're not weeping
you don't need her anymore
(Margo's Waltz 1996)

RD: Tell us about the new album 'Music in a Foreign Language'? Did you
record it at home or is it with a band? I have heard that it has a very
acoustic feel about it.
LC: It's not too many of those things, despite what the press releases
say. It wasn't recorded at home. I do have my own studio but its not at
home. I have an office in an old manufacturers building.
RD: Was it recorded with a band?
LC: No its just me, but there are guest musicians on it, it has an
acoustic feel to it but its just not acoustic, there is drum machine
and electric piano.
RD: Do any of the band 'The Negatives' play on it?
LC: Dave from 'The Negatives' plays lap steel on it and Neil from 'The
Commotions' plays a bit of guitar, they will be the only two you have
heard of.
RD: I really loved 'The Negatives'.
LC: Yeah me too, we are not history, we will do something else again,
all be it that we will sound like 'Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young' next
time.
RD: I like all your work but that's my favourite.
LC: You like 'The Negatives Album'! Good, no one has ever told me that
before.
RD: There is a spirit of happiness about it. Was it a pleasant
experience recording it?
LC: Some of it yes and some of it no, its not really a complete album,
of the eleven songs on it eight are 'Negatives' songs, 'Man on the
Verge', 'No More Love Songs' and 'Gone' are actually from the recording
sessions that eventually became the 'etc' album and that was supposed
to have come out after the 'Love Story' album, but I fell out with
Universal. The eight songs that involve 'The Negatives' are the happier
ones. That band was really formed as an antidote to a certain amount of
sterility that had crept into my career, whether I wanted it or not, I
did not want to become one of those people who just made albums for a
living.
RD: Your songs are very cathartic. Do you write from you own
experiences and then put them into narratives?
LC: I think I do both. I don't think I have written many songs that are
completely autobiographical. I think that in order to make your
characters speak you have to put something of yourself into the songs;
you have to use your emotional memory, if you write about something
that has not happened to you, you somehow need to put yourself in their
shoes. If you listen to 'Rattlesnakes' or 'Easy Pieces' all the
characters in all the songs all use my vocabulary, which maybe
ultimately is not very good writing. There is an attraction to the
voice on those records; the characters are all variants on me even if I
did not mean them to be.
RD: Going back to 'Easy Pieces', do you still dislike that album?
LC: It's got as many bad songs on that record as any other that I have
done. I think 'Minor Character' is a terrible piece of writing. Why no
one around me asked me why on earth did I want to sing song like
'James' I will never know.
RD: At the time, 'James' was referred to as the greatest song that
Morrissey never wrote.
LC: I was a big Morrissey fan at the time, and I was probably trying to
do a Morrissey. When he heard it we were friends for about a minute. If
he had written a song that sounded like me, I am sure I would say it
was the best thing that he had ever done. We did not make the best of
some of the songs on that record, I don't think it's healthy to worry
too much about that. I used to think that you should try and make the
best thing that you did at any given time, we were lucky with the first
album and not with the second that's all.
RD: What is your favourite album?
LC: I don't really have one, 'Love Story' I guess. There are not many
duffers on that one. I think 'Love Story and 'Rattlesnakes'. I do like
my first solo album but there are some ludicrous moments on it.
RD: There's a great band on that album.
LC: 'I hate to see you baby doing that stuff' is not really a Lloyd
Cole song. I had that title ever since 1986 with the Commotions and I
always wanted to do a song called 'I hate to see you baby doing that
stuff'.
RD: Was that first album recorded when you first went to New
York?
LC; All my solo records have been recorded in New York.
RD: It was almost a marketing thing when you first moved there and it
was sold on the strength that you had toughened up. Do you remember
that?
LC: I definitely thought that if I grew my hair and drank enough then
there was a possibility that I might be able to develop my character in
a way that I hadn't in the past. I was attracted to the idea of being
more of a rock songwriter as opposed to being a pop songwriter. I
thought maybe if I dressed this way then maybe I will become this way,
and I just didn't.
RD: The album worked though.
LC: The album worked but the tour alienated about a quarter of my
British fans.
RD: Do you really think so?
LC: I know so many people that hated that tour, not only did we play
loud rock music with three guitars we also systematically refused to
play any 'Commotions' songs with their original arrangements. We played
like 'The New York Dolls' or 'The Velvet Underground' trying to play
'Commotions' songs. A lot of people did not like it, especially with
what we did to "Are You Ready To Be Heartbroken?" But what are you
going to do? I hate bands that go out and try to sound exactly like
their records when they don't have the right band. Listen to the record
if you don't want to hear the show.

hey, hey, hey
look at me now
i`m unrecognisable
my trademark frown has grown
into the strangest easy smile
(Love Ruins Everything 1995)

RD: Recently I read an interview with Ed Harcourt and he said that your
song writing influenced him. He played the UCL Bloomsbury a few months
ago and was terrific.
LC: Really! I heard something recently and thought that may be the
case. He is doing quite nicely over here and one of the culture radio
shows that I should be trying to get on, 'Fresh Air' had a feature on
him and I thought this guy sounds like he is listening to me and I
thought I should be on there and not him.
RD: Do you do a lot of NPR (National Public Radio) over there because
you songs are always radio friendly?
LC: That is really the only support I get, I don't have any other
support.
RD: You mentioned the album 'etc' earlier, and there is an instrumental
on their called 'Santa Cruz'. This is a city that I have spent some
time in along with my friend Paula who works there each summer. Do you
have a relationship with that place? She just wanted to know.
LC: Yeah, it was originally called 'Sunburst Santa Cruz' and that was
the guitar I played.
RD: Well that's killed something!
LC: I did write lyrics to 'Santa Cruz' at one point, based on that if I
went to Santa Cruz then my life would be better but it ended up not
being part of the song. I've only been there once or twice.
RD: Until recently, Santa Cruz was the murder capital of the
world.
LC: Really!

she said not to call
said it would be best for all concerned
if i just all but disappear
(Baby: 1995)

RD: What are you reading at the moment?
LC: Fitness for Dummies.
RD: Have you read Douglas Coupland's 'All Families are
Psychotic'?
LC: No I haven't but we were vaguely friendly for a while, I like him.
I prefer his furniture. No I do enjoy his writing, my wife was obsessed
with him for a while, she bought 'Generation X' for everybody that year
and we ended up being in touch with him and vaguely friendly. I met
with him in Vancouver one time.
RD: I think that you would like that book.
LC: I did not read much during the making of this record. What I did
read was a lot of old Raymond Chandler, because he is the best writer
for dialogue. I find it helps me write.
smile she said and if you want

ill look the other way
till you regain your melancholy disposition
(What's Wrong With This Picture? 1998)

RD: 'What's Wrong With This Picture?' is my favourite song from 'the
Negatives Album'
LC: Its my brothers favourite to. I probably think it's the best song
on the album as well. I have got to start to play that song
acoustically. I did work out how to play it and it was quite
good.
RD: Well maybe by the time the tour gets to the UCL Bloomsbury you
might play it.
LC: Maybe, its easy to play it in a ridiculously simplistic fashion,
its only a three chord song. That whole song is about how not to be
introspective.
RD: Do you realise that your songs make your listeners feel good about
their crappy lives?
LC: I do think that it is entertainment. 'Famous Blue Raincoat' (Cohen)
is probably my model for a song. It's a very serious song presented in
a humorous way, for me it is perfect. I can't think of a single example
of art without humour that I enjoy.
RD: You must laugh sometimes at some of the things that you
write.
LC: When I get a song right I do. I think 'Another Lover' is the best
lyric that I have written in ten years. From time to time, songs will
come along and I think that I am glad I do this.
RD: Do you do any cover versions in your current set?
LC: I don't have a set; I have a kind of stand up comedian vibe with
this show and in the last few years. I get through the show by telling
a lot of stories and humorously getting around the fact that I quite
often screw up my own songs, forget the words and play songs that I
really should not attempt to play I actually get through three quarters
through a set and If I haven't made a screw up then I start getting
nervous. I'm always screwing things up. It's very informal. At one
point it was more informal than I wanted, and I didn't want people to
think that I did not rate myself as one of the songwriters of the last
twenty years, which I do.

I am cold, distant, increasingly resistant to your smile
and this I don't deny
You are bold, beautiful; I'm always gonna be in love with you
amphetamines or not
(Music In A Foreign Language: 2003)

RD: You play the UCL Bloomsbury on June 15th, you were a student here I
understand?
LC: I was in the law faculty for one year; I was studying when Ian
Curtis died. I saw 'The Slits' play ULU. I never saw anything at the
Bloomsbury but in a way this is a sort of a homecoming.
RD: Lloyd, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

looking like a born again
living like a heretic
listening to Arthur Lee records
making all your friends feel so guilty
about their cynicism
and the rest of their generation
not even the government are gonna stop you now
(Are You Ready To Be Heartbroken? 1984)

And that was that. I shake Lloyd's hand; I leave and make my way to the
nearest bar. I am in a bit of a daze. Three pints later and while I
wait for my colleague Gabriel in anticipation for the nights gig, I
feel like telling the world that I have just had the big talk with one
of the greatest songwriters of the last twenty years. I don't of
course, but I will tomorrow.

'Music in a Foreign Language' is released by Sanctuary Records on the
9th June 2003

Lloyd Cole plays the UCL Bloomsbury on Sunday 15th June 2003.

Copyright Ralph Dartford 2003

Email ucztral@ucl.ac.uk