Ex-Servicemen Sleeping Rough

There should be room for everyone Karl- shouldn't there?

It isn't right, Karl, but then a lot of things aren't right. Maybe if our weak, lily-livered government cut through the red tape and immediately shipped the illegals back wherever they originate from there would be room to house people who have fought for this country (and before anyone labels me a racist let me tell you that I'm in a mixed race relationship, and my black wife agrees with my views). I understand people wishing to escape genuine, life threatening oppression, and I agree with us taking in a limited number of genuine asylum seekers, but Britain is a tiny speck on the globe, and it's full almost to bursting point. The free-loaders only want to come here because they are given everything their greedy hearts desire on a gilded plate, and as the country's resources are finite that leaves needy residents staying in need.

I think that estimated statistic is true; I've noticed that a lot of the homeless people I've met are ex-service personell. There are also scary statistics about the proportion of homeless people who were in social services care as children. I just wonder though, these people who come from abroad to feast on our riches...they really come all this way to sleep in a homeless hostel? They must be pretty disapointed when they get here huh. All that glitters is not gold. It's a throw-back to the days of our empire that half the world think we walk around on gilded streets with silver spoons in our mouths and Nike on our feet. This is the result of hundreds, if not thousands of years of our ethnocentrism and corrupt dealings. It's not our fault as individuals, it's what we have inherited from our ancestors, just like in some countries people inherited famine and civil war.

My mother in law retired a few years ago and went back to Jamaica where she was born, and still she is treated as a 'returnee' and overcharged whenever traders think they can get away with it, simply because they think that anyone who has spent their working life in Britain is ridiculously wealthy. And it's not just the plight of the homeless that reflects the preferential treatment given to some people in our so-called democracy with supposed equal rights for all. I've been out of work for the best part of three years (and it's not for want of trying to find a job, I try very hard). I worked for almost nineteen years in heavy industry only to find that I was only entitled to six months' job seeker's allowance. My wife has a minimum wage job, and we have to survive on her wage and child tax credits, because I have no benefits. My Job centre advisor told me in confidence that if I was a recent immigrant, who has paid nothing into the system, I would be given a mobile phone, a computer and a car, I would have driving lessons paid for if I was a job seeker without a driving licence and I would be sent on no end of free courses to learn new skills - and if I had children in another country the government would even grant them money! This country is throwing many of its long term residents on the scrap heap in favour of looking after the world's waifs and strays.

What a sad plight to be in, Stephen. In Canada I would refer someone in your situation to the local Legion where a member may have room in their home for a boarder. Why not try a similar idea in your community? May God bless and care for you. Why not also try for a caretaker job, or a watchman, on a temporary basis with a local church, or a veteran's hall, and be allowed to sleep there, at least until you get on your feet? --Richard

I'm tempted to say that what your advisor told in confidence...isn't true, it just seems a bit far fetched. I've known and spent time with a few different asylum seekers and immigrants and have never seen them get that sort of treatment; I think they get about a third of the usual social security amounts while they are waiting for thier status to be decided by the home office. I may be wrong, maybe the jobcentre does dole out laptops to every other Pole, but I just find it very unlikely. Plus, they would only recieve proper benefits when their case has been decided so that means that if someone has been granted leave to stay in the UK, for reasons the home office have approved such as persecution etc, then if a mobile phone will help that person get a job, then why not give it to them? It's not the foreigners fault that our government lies to us and treats us like morons, we should take it up with fruadsters in parliament if we have a problem with the way our economy and social security system is run. Sometimes I suspect that the corrupt tabloid press spread rumours and half truths about immigration to distract us all from the daylight robbery of those in government who have pledged to and are paid to serve us. I'm sorry, I've become too opinionated of late; I should go and write a book or something...... :)

Richard's suggestion of applying for caretaker jobs would be a good one if not for the fact that there are no jobs. Jobs with accomodation are so rare and sought after they are gone before they are offered almost. If you are thinking of school caretakers, sports premises and so on, many of these establishments have sold off their available accomodation and the caretakers commute. Anyway, few businesses will employ a homeless person when so many others arelooking for work. What a sad state of affairs. This country has lost all sense of proportion and there is very little fairness any more. I am so sad for all people in distress, whatever their origin, but we are being forced to make choices, and if the choice is between looking after our ex-service personnel or people from other countries with no ties to or who have contributed nothing to this land, then that choice must be made. I personally am fed up with seeing the new council housing in my area going to recent immigrants while my own kids have to fend for themselves in overcrowded and expensive flats and everything possible is done to prevent them getting benefits they and we have paid for. Karl is right. Sad, terrible but true. Linda

We are encouraged to finger point, demonise and advised that there are hard choices between needs. Do you not feel you are being fed a line when there are 'hard choices' being made in favour of those who have, against the vast majority, who have not. We are not dogs in a cage salivating at an obfuscated message conveyed by the woebegone bell ringers of Whitehall.

Hi Karl, A brilliant post and some amazing comments. Stephen and Bangura are excellent examples of how the system doesn't work, but I can't get my head around the football ticket allocation comparison. Besides the fact that the British Empire will never be able to pay off its debt to the world for past actions (don't forget; we invented the concentration camp in South Africa), this country now stands alone as an inclusive democracy. Sure it's managed by a mixture of self-centred baffoons and incredibly hardworking individuals, that's always going to happen in a world where self-belief rules over track record, but there is no comparison in the entire world for our attempt to be truly multi-cultural. As for racially motivated exclusion tactics, which is how your housing/football ticket allocation would operate, it's as close as you'll get to Nazi Germany, so good luck to you if that's what you want. The whole footy ticket allocation system stinks in its own right because it doesn't include people who feel like watching a game of footy. It's a closed door, and for that reason I would never again pay to go and see a game. Last time I went was with my stepson in the family enclosure at the Emirates for the Emirates Cup (there's no way I'd be able to get tickets for a real game). The bloke behind us was pissed out of his skull and treating his kids like crap. When I made a comment to him, he asked me for a fight. Lovely. I used to go to Highbury on a Saturday for a tenner and that included the tube, a pint and a hot dog, plus I could stand in the North Bank and I could pogo when we scored. Today it's just money and a bunch of spoilt panzies kicking a ball about. It's odd that the amount of ex-servicemen homeless in the UK stands at 100,000 because that's the figure estimated for how many runaway children hit the streets every year, which works out as one every five minutes. It's about time the government was made responsible for its duty of care with vulnerable people. Front page headlines of wishes to right wrongs of abuse just won't rub any more. Actions, not words, are needed. Thatcher started closing down children's homes as soon as she got in but no real alternative has replaced them. Help for ex-servicemen was a buzzword about two years ago in the care industry but very little has actually been done and I think it may have been used as an acceptable way to close down alcohol/drug units with the promise of giving more help to servicemen. No such luck. Very few new units have emerged for servicemen, who have some of the highest rates of suicide, depression, alcoholism and compulsive gambling. As usual it's the community that takes the helm. The govt traets them like dogs on the street and would run them over if it could get away with it.

One time, I was a guest of some wealthy 'ex-pats' at a barbeque in Belgium and it was all really rather pleasant, then I asked "so, what's the difference between an ex-pat and an immigrant then?" They were still nice to me afterwards but they didn't look too overjoyed at my question.... I'm still not sure I get what the difference actually is. Answers on a postcard please :)

Yeah, a wealthy man's eccentric and a pauper's plain old mad.

They could go back to Iraq and beg for asylum armed with evidence of how the queen and the British government are trying to kill them. At least it's warmer there at this time of year.

I have a lot of sympathy with AlbertF's point of view. There is a heap of claptrap in this thread - free cars and driving lessons for example. What pure and utter nonsense. The immigration authorities in this country are incredibly tough and there is absolutely no evidence of immigrants taking up places in homeless shelters to the detriment of former armed service personnel. The real scandal - and it's been around for a long time now - is that so many former soldiers end up on the streets. Now that does need addressing - but it has nothing at all to do with immigration.

I was deeply psychotic while I was on the streets. So they put me in a psychiatric ward and it all evolved fromthere- now I have my own place to live with heating and a bath. I am lucky and not psychotic anymore.I am on disability benefits.

I have researched this matter, Tony, which I should have done in the first place before opening my big mouth. It seems that the rumours about immigrants and asylum seekers getting free phones, cars and driving lessons and automatically leaping to the front of the queue for housing, National Health Service treatment etc. are nasty BNP propaganda (which I should have suspected). I was given this whispered information by a Job centre adviser, so like a lot of other folk who hear such unsubstantiated rumours I foolishly accepted it as kosher, and now I feel guilty for mistaking misinformation for the gospel truth - and worse, for spreading muck while the instigators remain squeaky clean.

Thankyou for admitting this error. It is big of you. These pernicious stories get into the national culture and they are incredibly damaging. Don't believe all you are told!

This is what discussions are for....

You have several options if you're wrong, you can swear that black is blue even if it obviously is not, ignore the issue or admit your error. Telling the truth is always the best thing. The person at the Job centre told me a lot of stuff, you know the sort of thing, "Don't say I told you so or I'll get into trouble," and like an idiot I took it all in. If you simply Google 'immigrants and asylum seekers getting preferential treatment' lots of links come up denying the truth of this urban legend.

That's so true, karl. You have to be careful if you're researching anything nowadays - the gross misrepresentations I've stumbled across on sites like Wikipedia never cease to amaze me.