Thoughts on Hamas and Palestinian Resistance, and Western and Arab Government Reactions

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By David Kirtley

Thu, 30 Nov 2023
  • 1022 reads
13 comments
 

c.20/10/23 – 27/10/23 (5/11/23)

 In my ‘Civilians In War’ article I have tried to hold back from being too emotional. Hamas have really done it now! And the hardline Israelis can use it as an excuse to perpetrate lots of extreme treatment upon Gaza and the Palestinians generally. The UN has delivered quite a few resolutions against Israel over the years, but there has never been much enforcement. Enforcement largely could have come from the US, as the US was their ally and military supporter of last resort during crises. They could have negotiated with the threat of removing support, as they very much could at the moment, while Israel wants to use their weapons. Now you would think that Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and Gulf States and Turkey could have some influence over Israel because all have effectively recognised Israel over many years now, and have dealt with and traded with Israel. With a unified negotiating stance they could have kept up better pressure on Israel to stick to UN resolutions over settlement building etc. I think the Palestinians have been let down by all these states, in particular by the US, who did in the past exert a lot more pressure to encourage a peace process. the European Nations, including Britain, also used to pressure Israel a lot more than they have done recently. Everyone seems to have given up in recent years, which I suppose does have a lot to do with the fact that Hamas became popular amongst Palestinians and took over Gaza. Palestine has become a lost cause because nations gave up negotiating for them, and Israel went further to the right, and basically decided to continue colonisation of the West Bank without any concern for Palestinian views, basically unrestrained colonisation and with little recognition of Palestinian rights there.

Support for Hamas has backfired for Palestinians, because no nation really wants to deal with them, and certainly not Israel. I think even Hamas did offer 'truce' to Israel with a basic de facto acceptance of a two state solution, but obviously the Israelis have broken their side of any such understanding by their continued settlement building on the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Hamas is a Palestinian movement, so I think probably even they might have accepted a de facto solution, but recent injustices and settlement building, mainly in the West Bank, have led them down this war path.

 I think probably any Arab movement which managed to defeat Israel to some extent would probably be applauded by most Palestinians, because their mindset is quite naturally that these foreigners came to the country of the grandparents and great grandparents and pushed them out of large sections of their land,and made large numbers of them refugees. Not content with that Israel won the wars of 1967 and 1973, and became the military occupier of all the rest of Palestine too, and in the years since have created large numbers of new settlements on what was set aside as Arab land in the original UN Partitions, without any consideration of Palestinian rights and the understanding of Partition. But for many years there was in the West, and even in Israel, an increased awareness and understanding of, and sympathy with, the Palestinian predicament. But at the moment they see not just the Israeli right taking more territory, but the West allying with the aggressor/occupier. Israel has lost its opportunites to make a proper peace and to make friends with Palestinians. After this bloodbath reaction of Israel and intentional humanitarian threat to all residents of Gaza a peaceful mentality for the Palestinians is further away than ever. Israel will now be more hated by Palestinians than it has been over the years when they seemed to be coexisting for some time. It has to be said that Israel has proved lousy at winning over the Palestinians to the causes of coexistance and peace. Palestinians are unlikely to actively work against Hamas, because they do try to put up some resistance against the occupier, and of course no one wants to be targeted by them. I am sure that many Palestinians would not have been comfortable with the Hamas massacres of civilians.

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Comments

Submitted by David Kirtley on

As the title suggests these are just thoughts on Hamas and the Palestinian Resistance, and reactions to them, given the Israeli leaders' brutal war to 'wipe them out'! (It does make many of  us wonder, 'who are the real terrorists?')

Submitted by Turlough on

I'm surprised that nobody is surprised at Israel's brutal approach. Its ability to be brutal has increased year on year since the creation of the Israeli State in 1948, and its government and military forces have made no attempt to hide this.

Palestinians have every right to be resentful, having had their land stolen from them bit by bit.

However, Hamas or the PLA or whoever it is firing the rockets at Israel have never been going the right way about resolving the problem. Their aggression can't be condoned.

However, however, Israel's decades of over-the-top repraisals from the squadrons of helicopter gun-ships, the air strikes and now this full-on genocide isn't the right way to go about resolving the problem of rockets being fired at their cities and kibbutzim.

It seems that whatever Palestinians do, the Israelis will do it a thousand times bigger.

And the rest of the world just sits and watches, a few of them sending over more weapons to fan the flames of war. It’s a pity they can’t send peacekeepers or humanitarian aid on the same scale, but I suppose there’s no profit in that.

It seems to me that we're all to blame in one way or another.

It depresses me to hell.

Turlough

Submitted by David Kirtley on

Thanks for your thoughts Turlough. I do agree with everything you say here. Hamas,and even the PLO previously, seem to have been unable to learn how to negotiate effectively with Israel, how to win Israel's trust and enter a sensible peace. The right wing nationalist/zionist Israelis seem particularly difficult to negotiate with because they have become so keen to dominate and control, and evidently largely want to take over the West Bank and East Jerusalem etc. Sending too many rockets isn't particularly helping to gain Israel's trust, and massacres of Israeli kibbutzes and music festivalgoers has definitely not helped. 

However it is difficult to imagine what negotiating method could work for the Palestinians now. 

Like you I am amazed that European Union state leaders, British government and opposition leader,and above all the US Democrat government could be so easily taken in by Netanyahoo's extremist propaganda and self righteous rage, to allow them to commit such a destructive and bloody campaign to degrade Palestinians and Palestine. This is in my opinion very shameful, but there seems to be little way of encouraging our governments to hold back in their incredible support for Israel's war crimes.

Submitted by marandina on

I guess that's the rub. Where does Hamas end and Palestine begin? Does the ordinary man in the street share Hamas goals? It's a mess with tragic consequences.

 

Submitted by David Kirtley on

These are very good questions, which may not easily be answered. It would have been a help if Hamas did let Gazans vote freely on these matters. Then we might be able to see what the real Palestinians really want,or what the various views might be. Hamas are resistance fighters,and Palestinians do have a right to resist occupation. It would be best if Israel stuck to existing partitions from the past,and fair treatment to Palestinians. Then moderates would have something to work towards amongst Palestinians ,but particularly in recent times Israel has denied these possibilities.

The reality is that the Israeli right are calling all the shots and are the ones controlling a powerful army/military. Palestine is in their hands already, and no Arab states wish to risk having to fight them.

Submitted by Ed Crane on

 

 

Submitted by David Kirtley on

You are right there Ed. The use of terror and violence by Hamas,and by Israel is not producing peace,or understanding, or progress towards better or fairer solutions! As you say nobody is winning, certainly not the Palestinians of Gaza,or the West Bank, but neither is it helping the conscripts of the citizen army of Israel,or even the families of hostages who may not be released.

Submitted by Kris on

In reading this you state "Support for Hamas has backfired for Palestinians" + I enjoyed the comments..... In which triggered an additional prospective from my view.

As we get blitzed with news, media, examining both sides, analyst, experts, witnesses, victims, strategies, and all the technology to bring in live feed, play by play, & uncovering Intel, etc......

The one thing that puzzles me is; no one really addresses or profiles, investigates/exposes that, in fact, Hamas is a very savvy, well organized criminal cartel network with a large cash flow and crypto assets being assisted by a shadow financial network, other cartels, that makes sizable commissions for these services. This network is not domiciled in Gaza and lives a life of relative luxury outside while Gaza citizens suffer. This is where Hezbollah (Shia) & Hamas (Sunni) prosper even though in some areas they compete for business but feed off each other, and in many cases partner/JV in their illicit commercial activities. ( A secret that is not really a secret, but reported on properly would shape a better understanding for the global public square as well as the Palestine general population ).... Despite whos funding who, it's the wider cartel activities that have a broader affect on the Mediterranean region bringing it closer if not in the European theater.

Another dimension to your quote " Support for Hamas has backfired for Palestinians"... But then again, maybe there was no choice, at the time Hamas was elected, who knew what was the lessor evil at the time and for Bebe N, it was an offset to PLO control and the 2 state solution. I predict this will be his downfall.

Either way it backfired all the way around. 

Enjoyed your piece Dave* (well done).....

 

 

 

Submitted by David Kirtley on

Thanks for commenting Kris, particularly as it does provide further perspectives to what I wrote. I am glad I was able to give you an additional perspective. I admit that like many of us I am struggling to put all the pieces together,to fully understand what is happening in Palestine/Israel, why, and what ways forward there might have been, or might still be. My knowledge of Hamas is hardly complete, but it does seem that the journalists so far have not done a very good job of researching Hamas,or helping us to understand what they are. Trite condemnations from Western leaders of this 'terrorist'organisation are not very informative, or even correct? Millions of people are basing their understanding on these trite statements, evidently passed down from the propaganda emanating from the current right wing leaders of Israel! 

It does make me wonder whether there is any truth in the Israeli leadership's assertions that Hamas could be defeated in the rubble of Gaza. Probably not. Other paramilitary or 'terrorist' or 'freedom fighter' organisations have traded in drugs or weapons or other products in order to raise money for their campaigns/struggles.

It does seem quite possible that Netanyahu could be removed by the Israelis themselves if they perceive his 'encouragement' of Hamas to have led to October 7th, and his attacks/reconquest of Gaza to have been heavyhanded and counterproductive to freeing hostages. If Israelis see that he and the Israeli right have sabotaged a two state solution which might have worked,and was the only way towards a better peace, then there could be a further reckoning for him. However by then all the damage to Gaza and the West Bank has been and is being done, and the Palestinians have been severely degraded and downgraded. The extremist Israelis are getting what they wanted and it may be too late to resurrect Palestine?

Submitted by Kris on

Thx Dave*

(Its a pleasure to be able to comment on this board and your perspective as we witness these events and weigh & measure the past and present. I respect & appreciate the careful thought you have put into this, the realism, balance, dynamics, etc.)... again, my compliments, well done*

As I read your response to my post-several times. Again prompting a kind of multi- dimensional  perspective on this issue.

The motivating factor as to why I'm taking the time to write back is, you ended with a question mark (?)

 And rightly so.....

So... herein I'm gonna take a broad stroke on a set of measured dynamics currently evolving, based on what I see and have seen and interacted with face to face, in a sense what I feel, in a diagnosis/prognosis liken to taking a pulse & blood pressure, & eye reaction observation, respiratory, trama check before air rescue arrives, so to speak wink......

Drawing a circle around this.... (not claiming to be the all seeing nor all knowing)

Macro:

If we look at the Macro Islamic influencers and power houses of the region, economic, growth, potential economic growth and stability allies, moving from West to East = Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan; Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Oman and Turkey... mainly... Side lining Iran & Libya out of the equation in this piece. = Political:

Weighted in the mix: The massive Leviathen Gas field off the coast stretching from Cyprus, Lebanon, Israel + the distribution matrix planned in the region = refineries, pipelines, shipping, banking, employment, etc.

None of the above Arab countries are going to intervene or attempt re-script the Gaza chaos of the present or near future. Only token condemnation press statements, recalling an ambassador here and there, etc.

None of this region wants another social or political movement akin to an uprising like the Muslim Brotherhood, in any way, shape or form. (a predominately transnational Sunni movement) Nor a revolutionary style akin to the Arab spring, etc.... They have a tendency to morph in various volatile forms.... Make no mistake Hamas, Hezbholla, etc. have that ability to export a freedom fight, peoples revolution movement, based on the suffering of others, liken to ISIS. This is a real and present calculated danger for the region.

Easily done, via social connectivity, factoring in, all these Nations have extremely large and young connected populations and many of them have high unemployment rates, etc.

The PLO is seen by all parties including the West as corrupt and out dated. 

In a sense, BeBe N, the Knesset hard right via the IDF are doing the dirty work for them. Fact is, Hamas, Hezzbohlla, Islamic Jihad, Al Nusera Front and ISIS have been by far a massive pain in the ass for everyone way to long.

Sadly, citizens of Palestine and Israel suffer from a gross miscalculation of 2 decades of BeBe N's power reign, or as you have so eloquently put it (it backfired).... The Jihadist revolutionaries failed to promote and implement their Utopian Islamic society goals even on a low bar scale, and after years of funding from a variety of donors and fund rasing from past Gulf State regimes. (backfired-again)......  

Attached to that, moving further out, the US, British + NATO Navies are keeping both Persian Gulf and Red Sea shipping lanes open and safe, the supply chain interruption from Covid sent shock waves through this region.... the short version of that is; the region has the best hired guns from the West including special forces deployed Syria + elsewhere, on the hunt for the remanents of ISIS and degrading Iranian proxies. Iran is running out hard currency cash to keep their revolutionary proxies operating in the lifestyle they have been accustom too, while Tehran is fighting to control a social purge on the home front under sanctions with no (zero) friends in the Gulf region, while taking payment in Russian Rubles and Chinese Yuan for other trade= you cant exactly go to the Pub and buy a proper lunch with a pint with those currencies, so to speak. There are supporters of that social uprising in Iran, similar, or in relatable terms, as underground support for the IRA in 70's & 80's from the mainly Irish Catholic Americans, etc...... except in this case from Gulf states including Malaysia.

Russia is straining to keep Latakia military base open in Syria, pretending to still be an influence player in the region while under sanctions and bleeding money, lives & internal & external political capital on the Eastern front of Ukraine.... Its a finite equation there.

There will be a series of regional, small political and economic implosions coming but not major power vacuums in the region. (some the of cracks are appearing now)....

The Result Post Gaza = the Arab equation:

Drawing a circle around this... my estimation, or in investment banking terms, puts-options and futures= hedge.. would be, Post Gaza Conflict; the wealthy Arab world descends like the saving Angel on Gaza. PLO gone and BeBe N out, the conservatives hardliners will have to create new threat/enemy. They will re-build Gaza + a major gas refinery-LNG hub & port facility to off set an Israeli refinery to the North. Gaza will hub LNG to the Egypt-North Africa distribution nets, Israel will feed its own needs and then pipeline-ship via LNG terminal East & West. And with that, a new Palestine government that works, like a new PLO. The West is there every step of the way. The two state solution, or version of it, has a clear shot at being implemented.

Key Points of the future vision- as I see gravity moving:

*Everyone gets a piece of the action, even the war mongering far right will prosper.

* The Mediterranean Sea region stabilizes more, not perfectly, but more, bankable in a sense.

* A Gas network, infrastructure, will appear liken to the North Sea network.

* Russia will loose its market share in energy & Latakia Syria military base.

* The current Iran regime will feel isolated, dwindle in real influence terms and try to start a war. (conflict by conflict because they cant think out of their box i.e. they are their own worst enemy)

* A new gas trading exchange will appear most likely in Tel Aviv and link into Gulf state exchanges similar to the Euronext exchanges.

*Cyprus will become a kind of Switzerland of the region + a major gas/LNG terminal.

*Beirut will come back as the Paris of the middle East and major a tourist destination and Agra exporter.

* Syria will collapse again in civil conflict, and may split into 2 or several divided provinces. (Turkey will help that happen, they already have the 30k, so called PKK buffer zone, they have plans).

* The big unforeseen winner out of all this... Jordan.. at this moment, the King is the smartest guy in the room, the price of property in Aqaba will quadruple, will be a vibrant trading hub and resort destination and Red Sea business hub.

* In the mean time, Israel will role with this change, learning that the current strain of 200,000+ citizens/workers displaced from the Gaza border, one of the most productive Agra regions in a country of 9.1 million & strain on the national food security, ain't gonna get covered by the US for free, nor anyone else= the welfare phase is over, no one is going support a free fall of the Israeli currency, but they will continue to supply weapons, but they cant feed weapons to a once productive Agra sector feeding people and profitable Agra export market. (there are cash crops rotting in the fields right now)...... 

* Have faith in the technology change of the region, this is the real and present revolution in the region, being powered by a young, hungry, population. The middle East of the past and today, wont be looking the same a decade out. And to the critics of that, if you think technology has changed in the past decade, just wait for the next 5 & 10 years.... its gonna do great things for this region.

* And to the nay sayers and economic down side gurus... all of this will result in more velocity-distribution for the € Euro and Euro currencies, mostly the $USD because these regional economies cant leverage credit, debt, pay revenue dividends, build infrastructure nor trade in even the most basic items in their regional currencies.... That means its good for your pension funds + a redundant gas supply for Europe and emerging markets regional sector.

And with said, hopefully my job and the risk to the team team gets a bit easier.... until then, its game on.

* In the mean time and post to these tragic events, we are gonna have some climate change events that ripple through the conflict zone and economic Gaza build out phase there.... aside from this discussion, the real threat of that, or whats to come has yet to be seen affecting all of this. In this region, climate change is accelerating faster in real terms than Europe +, stay tuned by your TV to see whats coming this Spring and Summer...... But the peace process will go on and so will gas field project....

Kinda like its gonna stagger, taking two steps forward, one back, with a few sideways off balance twist a bit with a steady stream of Physio Therapy... but its gonna get there, step by step and we will see the results faster than past generations.....

In the meantime, my heart and sincere prayers are with those suffering from this conflict...

Hope that makes sense.... Just my POV, feel and read, inspired to write it.. by you Dave... and again... thank you..

Kris 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

Submitted by Kris on

Typo's & Boobos......Dave I wrote that piece on a busy morning, constantly being interrupted, fight'n a bit of jet lag & several cups of really strong coffee.... But the point(s) is there......

I got gifted some so called organic home grown coffee from my Sis.. (they grow a lot of potent stuff on that Island Plot -  caffine content is off the charts>.... cheeky

 

Submitted by Kris on

And to your point Dave.... "support for hams backfired" = all the way around-full circle.... BB-N will not last either way from either side... the gravity has shifted...

+ I have a brief comment at the end of this.....

Israel backed Qatar sending millions to Gaza for years. Here’s what we know about the controversial deal

From CNN's Nima Elbagir, Barbara Arvanitidis, Alex Platt, Raja Razek, Nadeen Ebrahim, CNN and Uri Blau, Shomrim

Since the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, the Gulf state of Qatar has come under fire by Israeli officials, American politicians and media outlets for sending hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Gaza, which is governed by the Islamist militant group Hamas

But all that happened with Israel’s blessing.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continued the cash flow to Hamas, despite concerns raised from within his own government, CNN was told in a series of interviews with key Israeli players conducted in collaboration with Israeli investigative journalism organization Shomrim.

Israeli and international media have reported that Netanyahu’s plan to continue allowing aid to reach Gaza through Qatar was in the hope that it might make Hamas an effective counterweight to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
PA officials said at the time the cash transfers encouraged division between Palestinian factions.

Israeli sources responded by pointing out that successive governments had facilitated the transfer of money to Gaza for humanitarian reasons and that Netanyahu had acted decisively against Hamas after the October 7 attacks.

Maj. Gen. Amos Gilad, a former senior Israeli Defense Ministry official, told CNN the plan was backed by the prime minister, but not by the Israeli intelligence community. There was also some belief that it would “weaken Palestinian sovereignty,” he said. There was also an illusion, he added, that “if you fed them (Hamas) with money, they would be tamed.”

Note to Dave & readers.... either way the gas field gets developed including block 12 et.al; the energy triangle = Greece, Cyprus, Lebanon, Israel..... = Gaza gets in on the action = rev-flow- has too... no more international hand outs in the long term, managed money by the West & no more free-be's to groups like Hamas... its all gonna wash out... Hamas needs to kiss the ring of Iran more, Iran is running out of hard currency cash, so they have to relay on cartel/gangster activities.... Egypt ain't take'n no sh*t from these renegades.... its all about energy & money, Jihad freedom fighters are in back of the bus now... Assad = Syria missed the boat...

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field

Pls dont misunderstand  me as a arm chair or a behind a desk wana be Guru, I have nothing to prove, theres just another dynamic here that has yet to make the headlines and TV analyst haven't sliced yet... I've been there, I do SAR (search & rescue in this region) and been on 1 of the new Gas platforms in Cyprus... its a mind blower happening right now... They have a North Sea type of plan...

Back to your original piece Dave... you did a great job sizing this up and squaring it*

 

 

 

Submitted by David Kirtley on

Hi Kris, sorry I didn't get back onto abctales until today (unusual!) so I only just read your last 3 comments, continuing our conversation re Palestine and Israel. I think I had better think over some of your points/ predictions a bit more before replying properly. It does make you wonder why Israel and Palestine have not been able to get into a proper economic  partnership before now, and progress towards a better future? Right now however Palestinians are being dangerously downgraded by Netanyahu and the Israeli right, so it makes me wonder how can the Palestinians recover. As we speak the right wing,and the Zionist Settlers of the West Bank etc seem to be busy rounding up all potential opposition and continuing blatant ethnic cleansing activities. Palestine's deliverance from this extreme treatment seems a long way off. While Netanyahu and the right wing have the power over the government and military machine there seems to be no respite for Gaza or the West Bank. I don't feel that it is at all certain that Netanyahu and his politics will be deposed by the Israeli population, although it might happen in time. At the moment they are busy doing their worst and there may be little of a Palestine left to reemerge for any potentially better future. Perhaps Israel with other players will manage to grab all the benefits and deny Palestine any. We would of course imagine that the wealthy Arab States should have been in a position to at least guarantee Palestine's safety and protection from Israel? Maybe they have just not chosen to exercise this power, or negotiate with Israel on behalf of Palestinian interests?

I will have to think a bit more about some of the other issues you have raised.