Well I have done well most of the day speaking about the hurricane, feeling a bit detached from the travesty and in one interview I am in my own puddle of tears!
OMG this man just put it all out there for me. When you put real faces and real hurt on things and you realize how safe you are in your own bubble for the time being anyway...well it makes me want to run home and pack up anything I can to send off to the red cross...I'm devastated
We can only hope that this latest tragedy will finally force Bush to address the Global Warming issues and admit the part that the US plays in the resultant climate changes (unlikely).
I'm not sure whether forcing up the price of oil is a good thing but if the price stays high it might eventually force everyone to be more economical with their fuel (again unlikely).
Whatever, it's more than likely that things will get a lot worse before they start to get better (certainty)!
It's very sad to see any place devastated like that, but when it's places you know and love it seems much worse. New Orleans is my spiritual home, and I know Pass Christian, Pascagoula, Gulfport abd Biloxi too. I have a special affection for Biloxi.
Of course it's all Bush' fault, his and the damned Iraqi war. If only he had lost the election it would never have happened.
It's very sad to see any place devastated like that, but when it's places you know and love it seems much worse. New Orleans is my spiritual home, and I know Pass Christian, Pascagoula, Gulfport and Biloxi too. I have a special affection for Biloxi.
Of course it's all Bush' fault, his and the damned Iraqi war. If only he had lost the election it would never have happened.
It is really shocking. I was only in New Orleans earlier this year - and I was dismissing this hurricane a few days ago because last year's one was supposed to devastate the city and ended up doing very little damage at all. It's going to take forever for them to sort it out as well, since the water level isn't going to go down of its own accord.
On a minor, petty point, is anyone else really bugged by the way the British journalists keep calling the city 'New Orly-ans'? It's Nawlins!
I lived in Biloxi for two years and Hattiesburg and I am still very close to people in the area. I too paid little attention to the news reports and I guess those who stayed behind didnt' give it much attention either but damn were we all wrong
One report said that dead bodies were just floating down the streets in New Orleans goodness! I have not yet been able to get in contact with any family members or friends. I'm just praying that they are all right
My cousin lives in New Orleans in a suburb. Whenever one of these things is on the way, they evacuate and stay in a motel for a day or two. They might be gone longer this time.
I feel desperately sorry for the people of New Orleans and surrounding areas - but when these things happen in Bangladesh or elsewhere they make a short paragraph in the paper and that's it.
Maybe the Americans will now realise that these things happen all over the world - and that the influence of their global warming policies will only make them happen all the more.
Here's part of an email I received from American friends. I know it's fashionable these days to be derogatory about everything American, but consider for a moment where this democracy we enjoy would be today without the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's Help Katrina's Victims
"The devastation is greater than our worst fears," said Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco.
Hurricane Katrina has passed, but the daunting rescue efforts in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama have just begun; a process that will be difficult ... and indeed overwhelming.
Make a donation to one of the following charitable organizations recommended by the Federal Emergency Management Agency:
American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund
(800) 435-7669
Catholic Charities, USA
(800) 919-9338
Salvation Army
(800) 725-2769
United Methodist Committee On Relief
(800) 554-8583
America's Second Harvest
1-800-344-8070
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Authors note; I will not be editing this post, but stand by every word come what may.)
American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund
(800) 435-7669
Catholic Charities, USA
(800) 919-9338
Salvation Army
(800) 725-2769
United Methodist Committee On Relief
(800) 554-8583
America's Second Harvest
1-800-344-8070
It is desperately sad, especially since those worst hit are, as usual the poorest. I hope people do donate (but I'm sorry George) and aren't put off by the fact that the US reneged on a lot of its promises to the Tsunami victims earlier in the year. I have to say I am slightly irritated hearing people who have lost their homes in the gulf states of the US saying that it is worse than the third world. Yes, it's bad. Probably as bad, but you don't own the copyright on things being terrible and "unfair".
Two things so powerful in the papers today. One, the declaration that New Orleans is to be "Abandoned", the second a photo of thousands of shoes similarly abandoned in Baghdad where people have tried to run from the stampede. The first perhaps mother nature taking revenge, the second a tragic accident fuelled by circumstance. We have so much to learn. And why are they so hell bent on shooting looters when people are starving? The people of Louisianna and surrounds deserve our pity big time but the system is all to cock, I say.
With regard to T.C's comment, yesterday the co-presenter of ITV's lunch time news said "The eyes of the world are on America today, and rightly so." This just after mentioning that over 600 people had been killed by a stampede in Baghdad. It was the 'rightly so' that got me. Also - a commentater in America thought that maybe New Orleans shought be abandoned - for good!
I don't feel the need or obligation to join a debate on whether or not America is 'reaping what it's sown'. Most people that despise America have either never been there or have only met the few Americans that have visited these shores. I have been a regular visitor in recent years and have met and count among my friends, many of them. Mostly they are no different than your average Brit. They work hard, have aspirations for themselves and their kids and sometimes elect a disastrous leader.
Anyone here remember Margaret Thatcher?
The worst leader this country ever had. I'd hate any foreigner to tar me with the same brush as that evil bitch.
Most Americans that I know were against the Iraqi war and are also against global warming. Sadly, as is the case here, the views of the electorate are rarely considered when national or foreign policy is formulated.
I haven't googled the figures, but I'm in no doubt that as a nation America gives more money than any other on earth. Yes, you can say she is the biggest and wealthiest and that maybe some of it is politically inspired, but Britain's contributions have always been so inspired as well.
I repeat, without America as an influence in this world most of us here in the free world would be living under someone or others yoke.
(Authors note; I will not be editing this post, but stand by every word come what may.)
Hi Mississppi, Wecome back. I grew up along side Americans and found them to be very amiable - mostly. If I would fly I would have chosen to visit New York and then Nawlins. As a musician (well not really a musician I just used to beat my four skins) I'm sure I'd have loved the music scene there, being a funk style drummer. But what do you make of several statements from different expert sources, that New Orleans should just be abandoned - as this will happen again.
For anyone to suggest that Americas are unaware of when things happen around the world and therefore should somehow deserve ill fortune, is ludicrous and reveals an underlying resentment of a nation that has time and time again been there for other nations when needed. New Orleans has a metropolitan population of roughly half a million people, most of which are homeless. It's one of the largest if not the largest sea-ports in the US. It's also a very distinct cultural center. It will never be the same. An entire culture and its history has been swept away with the wind and water. We'll have refugees flooding the country for years, hauntingly similar to John Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath", the stories of hardship and dispair will flood our society like the waters that flooded the city.
Catching the news reports of this, what is most alarming to me is to see the price gougers hike up the price of hotels, food, water, clothing and other necessities, taking advantage of the misfortune of an entire city. They are no better than looters in my opinion.
George, I recall you were recently down there...I hope you took pictures, because I doubt it will ever be the same city.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
I feel bad for anyone that goes through a tragedy but it is always different when it hits home and to suggest that Americans are trying to own or copyright disaster is pure (you use your term) bollocks!
Don't CONFUSE goverment and politics with people. Many many many americans give and help other countries when things like this hit. Many many many americans give up themselves and go to different locations to help other people in needs when its not just outside our back door!
I hate threads like this that want to bring up dumb shit like well Americans didn't do this or they do that when we have fucking dead people floating around the city of New Orleans and you don't! Right now we don't need your sympathy if you dont want to give it but it is tragic for us and should not be proceeded with yeah its tragic BUT...but what? Tragedy is tragedy!!!!
Experts are a curious group of people, who in the main study and absorb information and details to the point where they know nothing about everything.
New Orleans will NOT be 'abandoned'. It is a part of America and what America is. It will be drained, repaired and re-built where necessary, though as Denver says, it will never be the same. I have enough photos that I've taken over the years to fill a book but I'll never be able to look at them again without a tear in my eye. I fear that buildings I feel a personal connection with (eg. The Lamothe House Hotel on Esplanade Avenue), may be gone forever.
I suspect what the 'experts' really meant was that the city may be abandoned as a living city whilst the rebuilding takes place.
As soon as the city has recovered and is open for business again I shall return and spend a month there.
I hope it is sooner rather than later.
(Authors note; I will not be editing this post, but stand by every word come what may.)
And I won't be far behind you, George.
Nawlins is a place I've always wanted to go to but never have - and I feel very sad about that.
Don't mistake trying to put tragedies into perspective with Anti American invective. I have many American friends and have a great deal of time for them - but I have also met many thousands of Americans who have no concept of life outside of their state, let alone their country - and it is that small minded nonsense from the richest nation on earth that I rail against.
but I have also met many thousands of Americans who have no concept of life outside of their state, let alone their country - and it is that small minded nonsense from the richest nation on earth that I rail against.
well I'm sure there are more than enough folks like that in other countries as well...England comes to mind :) But I guess because we are the best its easy to want to give us the TKO when things happen
Okay I was joking abou tthe best part LOLOLOL but you know what I mean
I think it's worth mentioning that at first no-one realised the true scale of the disaster.
It seemed initially like New Orleans had been lucky and largely escaped damage and that although there had been a lot of damage elsewhere there was little loss of life... then, like a nightmare, every moment a new horror...
So if people seemed a bit callous or anti-American at first it's almost certainly because no-one had the slightest idea of the true horror and thought that the Gulf states had managed a lucky escape. Let's hope we've finally seen the worst!
There was a dam designer on tv last night who said it would be an extreme folly to re-build. Sea levels are rising due to global warming and this will happen again. How high and how strong are you going to make them?
Well I guess the 'damn' designer is looking to raise his profile and gain some professional kudos from his opinions, but the plain fact is that rising sea levels are more a problem here than New Orleans. It may however be extreme folly to employ him as a consultant! The water that has flooded the city hasn't even come from the sea, it is water that has flooded from Lake Pontchartrain through broken levees. From New Orleans to the open sea is, I believe, somewhere in the region of 100miles down the Mississippi river. The levees were plenty high enough and strong enough under normal circumstances, though it's obvious they need raising and strengthening in some areas now.
I also have met many Americans that aren't aware the world extends beyond Norfolk Va. but that doesn't make them morons. My own mother never left London/Essex let alone the country, she never had a passport. As a consequence her knowledge of the rest of the world was gleaned from TV and newspapers. That's not really a fair way to assess anything is it?
The inference that the USA 'deserves' this catastrophe derives in part from assertions that it is possibly a result of climate change engendered in part by the US global warming policy. I have seen reports that Islamic extremists claim the hurricane was a 'Private' in their army fighting against the great satan. I wonder what army those that trampled the moslems to death in Bhagdad were serving in?
It is of course all bollocks, these disasters happen every few years, but they are only disasters in human terms, to nature they are just the earth going about her business, we just get in the way.
I saw Bubba on the box tonight giving his usual inarticulate performance. It's time they changed their election laws and brought back Bill Clinton.
Mississippi I thought you liked Bush?
Okay when things could get no worse they have... there are snipers shooting at rescuers and gang fights in the superdome...I'm like you've got to be phucking kidding me! Gangfights wth???
A large portion of New Orleans is below sea level. The land the city sits on was created by silt from the Mississippi (not George), over the past few thousand years. Lake Pontchartrain, was I believe a very small lake at first, left by the Mississippi changing course. In the past 100 years, they've built dikes and such to make the lake larger and to provide a place to pump water from the city, as there is very little natural draiinage (water won't flow uphill without help). The problem with the city was and is its location. The river and the ocean are playing a giant tug-of-war over that spot in the delta and humans think they can manipulate the whole thing with man-made structures. It can't be done. Over the long-term, the ocean will reclaim the land, the river will alter its course and man will be stuck with the results. The city can be drained eventually, rebuilt and restored to some semblence of habitat, however, we will loose the struggle to nature. The whole city will someday, without a question, be underwater and there is absolutely nothing that can be done to prevent it.
It's also interesting to know, the initial layout of the city was designed by the French...hmmmmmmm....They couldn't build the Panama Canal either...engineers they are not. I say, blame it on the French. It's what they get for picking on Lance Armstrong.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
I detect a note of resigned defeatism in your post, Denver. The French may be wankers at engineering, (oh all right engineering has nothing to do with it), but the mob that took over the canal project certainly aren't. For an optimistic perspective of New Orleans you need look no further than Holland. Those guys REALLY know how to hold the sea at bay. Perhaps it needs a few cloggies to sort out the problem? Either way if there's sufficient determination the city will endure, of that I have no doubt.
I can't help it George...I'm an engineer and I know when something ain't built right.
Call it realism, not defeatism. We'll all probably be long gone by the time New Orleans becomes a coral reef, but it will happen...
I don't think Holland is in a primary Hurricane path is it?
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
Ohhh, I was just reading up on Holland...they've done quite a bit to contain the ocean it seems. Have they done anything to contain the French?
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
Antoine "Fats" Domino, has not been heard from since Monday afternoon. Domino’s rollicking boogie-woogie piano and deep soul voice are not only part of the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame but responsible for dozens of hits like “Blue Monday,†“Ain’t That a Shame,†“Blueberry Hill†and “I’m Walking (Yes, Indeed, I’m Talking).â€
Domino, 76, lives with his wife Rosemary and daughter in a three-story pink-roofed house in New Orleans’ 9th ward, which is now under water.
On Monday afternoon, Domino told his manager, Al Embry of Nashville, that he would “ride out the storm†at home. Embry is now frantic.
RIG, I'm sorry if I offended you. I had just heard a guy on the radio saying his situation was worse than the third world and it made me particularly angry. But don't get me wrong, I don't hate Americans. Much of my family lives in the states and are American. I have very close friends in New Orleans (thankfully evacuated to Shreveport although one is hard at work in the charity hospital and reportedly overrun and overwrought). I don't believe that New Orleans deserves this at all - I have had some wonderfully filthy times there and it saddens me greatly to see the news reports.
I have no beef with american people at all. I do, however, have issues with a system that lets its people die in the street because the emergency services are executing a shoot to kill policy on looters (mainly of essentails). An indication that they value human life less than property and commodity. That is what I have a huge problem with. A perspective that is utterly screwed, and why I get so angry when I hear people comparing their situation to that of the third world, because that guy's perspective is also buggered up, probably through no fault of his own.
I guess I did take offense and I sound very angry in my post and I was.
I know there is a lot of anit-american sentiement in the world and I totally understand that but its my home.
its kind of like your drunken uncle who your WHOLE family talks bad about and then someone outside of the family say the exact same things as you and your like ...oh wait a damn minute that is my uncle you are talking about...as you are whipping a gun out from under your shirt LOL
the US has HUGE issues inside the states and outside but this is a tragedy. This is not what we are used to. The last five years have been a big wake up call for us. I guess if we can never say bush gave us anything we can say he showed us somethings: he showed us what it feels to have fear and feel vulnerable (thanks dickhead!) he showed us what it feels like to be afraid that you just working and maintaining a reasonable life is just not enough (our economy is in shamble..thanks wanker)he's showing us now that in a real tragedy like Katrina we can't even help ourselves because our national guardsmen are in another country (bitchbastard) I apologize for yet another string of anger. Thank you Rcoates for offering your apology. Please accept mine
They'll probably be no shortage of help, and I would guess the rebuilding will go quickly once everything is in place and the water has been pumped out of the city.
The role of the national guard will be as public safety and law enforcement. They won't be doing much work in other areas. The US Army Corp of Engineers will probably be primairly responsible for making the environment safe and coordinating the clearing of debris and rebuilding.
The thing with looters...and it's always this way...is it can't be prevented. I saw photos of guys carting televisions through waist deep water. Stupid, what the hell are they going to do with a television. Law enforcement has said that they aren't interested in people looting for necessities of life, food, water, clothing. But, to change the focus of your attention to apprehending/shooting looters over finding and saving lives is to seriously misdirect resources. I could care less who's stealing a television or robbing walmart if I were stuck in an attic of a house submerged in 10 feet of water. By reports, the people on the ground were angry about the looting, so law enforcement reacted to the news, not the reality. Maybe some people in the city still have a hope that property can be salvaged and its like running into a burning home and risking your life to rescue a picture of you mother. People don't think right under stress.
I was watching Bush visit Mississippi this morning, and to a detail, almost everything I heard talked about was a reactive response, We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, we need to do this, we need to do that...what I didn't hear once was we are doing what we planned in advance. There was a total and complete breakdown in advance disaster planning at the upper levels of government. There was never anything done to identify potential emergency housing and things like that...Bush is being a cheerleader now, almost a week after it happens...he gutted FEMA in 2002 when he hired his campaign manager to run the Agency, they ignored disaster planning and concentrated national resources on a war that should never have happened. There's gonna be hell to pay after the bodies are burried and the waters drained. There's gonna be hell to pay for those that fumbled the ball before it happened. "Lets send 20 busses to New Orleans." That's his response. George Bush is gonna be answering some tough questions pretty soon and the voters are gonna x-splain it to him...When he's gone, all he will have to show is a wake of shit. He's incompetent...God I'm pissed!
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
As you're the most powerful nation in the world - being sniped at - well it goes with the territory. I'm sure you all heard the Mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagin (?) sounding off at that grinning jackanape George Bush last night. He talked of the several thousand National Guard that are in Iraq that could be helping in the relief effort. George Bush visits today; now that's a meeting I'd like to be in on. Just heard on the news that a relief convoy is hoving into view - just as Dubya does. Coincidence? I just wonder if this had happened in a mainly rich white city, whether aid would have taken 5 days to get through?
Re RD's post: Just googled FEMA - it's Federal Emergency Management Agency.
(I was just in awe thinking, I wished I could be that persuasive when pissed.... then I realised you meant angry didn't you)
Now that's funny...I forget that you guys don't speak english! Pissed in American english normally means...Angry as hell. Pissed off, pissed on, pissed at, pissed away. Pissed does from time to time, when used in context mean, drunk.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
Well actually 'pissed off' means the same thing here, Denver, it's only when used as a single word that it means PISSED ie. drunk as a skunk, rat-arsed, hammered, stewed, ad infinitum.
I'm so glad the fat man is safe.
I read in todays paper here that US federal cash for the defences around NO was cut this year from $21mill to $6 mill (the difference being spent on the Iraqi war. Now THAT if it's true is a REAL reason for blaming Bubba)
For me, the most extraordinary thing is that America's underbelly has been revealed. For the first time the world has seen a side of the US that has been hidden to many. The Poor.
This is not the land of the free, but the hell of the dollar over the ghetto. The dispossessed cannot be swept under the carpet when something like this happens, but they have.
I dont know about you but I am horrified from the luxury of our living rooms.
It is sickening.
Come election time, I don’t think this will be forgotten.
The end of the Republican Mardi Gras....
Americas underbelly has actually been a wart on its face for over a century.
In most major cities, and very prominent in the "South", there are two societies. You have the "Affluent" and the "Poor". The affluent generally consist of whites, asians, europeans, etc...business owners, professional people, yuppies, politicians, etc... The poor are generally confined (by social / economic pressure) to hispanics and blacks, in specific areas in towns. They live in substandard housing, amongst their own, the schools are neglected, their education levels per capita are much lower, their economic opportunities are far fewer and they generally struggle to survive on minimum wage jobs. The NAACP and many other organizations try to improve this situation and in some degree, there has been progress...very very slow. Now take this and put it in the deep south in cities like New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, Birmingham and what you'll find is that the majority inner city population is Black. You'll find in many instances an ingrained Bigotry in these cultures, dating back to our Civil War and even earlier. The situation in New Orleans is very typical of what I am describing. The people left to suffer are incapable of evacuating the city, and the people in charge have geared their attention to the needs of the middle class and affluent people (mostly white) living in the suburbs. There are poor white people living in the inner city and there are affluent (middle class & higher) blacks and other minorities living in the suburbs and better parts of town.
The Bigoted and racial / social indifference towards the inner city poor by politicians and public safety officials is of epidemic proportions everywhere in this country. The end result is when the going gets tough, the middle class and higher get to go. Everyone else is on their own.
Denver is an interesting city in contrast to major cities of the American South and East. Our minority populations here are mostly Hispanic and Asian, Blacks are very few, probably about 2% of the cities population. Most Afro Americans I know are well educated, middle class folks and don't really seem to be any better or worse off than everyone else. We also don't seem to have this "ingrained" Bigotry in our society here prevailant in the East and South. A very dynamic culture and fairly affluent to a large extent. But...there are problems here with homelessness and illegal immigration.
I do volunteer work from time to time with a group called SERTOMA, (service to all mankind) and we have a very diverse and friendly bunch of folks from every walk of life involved with many civic activities. It makes me feel good after working with these people, because all racial and cultural boundaries are gone and we lean a lot about each others culture and best of all, we help the poor and those that can't help themselves. One of my biggest reasons for leaving the South and why I don't go back is racial hatred. I've been to Louisiana many times and each time I go back, I feel like a foreigner and want to leave within a day or two. It makes me sick how profoundly ugly some people are down there. It's not a romatic place unless you can travel in circles that avoid the harsh reality of the poor.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
~
www.fabulousmother.co.uk
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
It's not a bug...it's a feature.
Tyler King