THE OUTTHERE A-EYE CHAT SHOW (second bit)

Again the screen merges into the studio set. Both men appear very relaxed. Winston seems subtly different, his hair thinner, but tidier. The face is clearer, less engrained, and he’s filled out. Healthier looking, Winston smiles briefly flashing a full set of much whiter teeth.

Frost speaks first. ‘Winston would you mind if we talk a little bit about your earlier days at The Ministry of Truth. Before you were brainwashed, so to speak.’

‘Certainly, David, but first let me say something about being . . . brainwashed, as you called it. Not a term I was familiar with.’ Winston’s voice is strong, rounded and confident.

‘Of course Winston, go ahead.’

‘I’m not sure brainwashed is a good term. I would call it “correction.” I think today some call it, re-education.’

Frost shifts as though uncomfortable. ‘Ehem . . . yes. We are familiar with that expression.’

‘The way we, the lower Party members, lived could be described as being brainwashed from birth. Especially those too young to remember the wars. Endless propaganda; spied on 24/7 (as you say now) even in our own home. Living in permanent fear of being reported for things they didn’t do (often by their own children); getting vaporised or disappeared even executed. Being expected to spy on and inform on others was normal. Anybody who had misgivings learned to bury them . . . as a matter of survival.’

Frost checks his notes. ‘The thought police. What can you tell us about them?’

‘We were led to believe they monitored us constantly. Through our telescreens at work wherever we were, but no one could ever be sure if surveillance was constant which made it even more unnerving. The only people who seemed to have the luxury of free unfettered thought were the proles. They were considered to be worthless. I dared to think about that once and it terrified me in case the thought police would find out.'

‘Frost fingers his notes. But weren’t they 85 % of the population?’

‘Yes they were.’

‘Do you think they were underestimated – a danger to the Party?’

‘. . . Winston?’ Frost persists after his guest remains silent for half a minute.

‘O’Brien didn’t, and if O’Brien didn’t I don’t think the higher Party members did either or least I think they thought they didn’t. Their main purpose . . . the way they organised things . . . was to keep lower Party members in line. They certainly knew the consequences if that broke down. Any Party members suspected of free thinking that were “retired.” Another term used today I believe.’

‘So probably the proletariat were underestimated.’

‘Goldstein thought so. If Goldstein actually existed. He might have been an alter-ego created by the party to weed out descenders. . . . Hmm another expression used a lot today.

‘Do you think he existed?’

‘I have no idea. I believed everything O’Brien told me. Anyway it was a known fact the proles were kept quiet by giving them what they thought they wanted. Much like today. . . . Erm that’s just an observation of course.’ The beginnings of a smile briefly lit Winston's face.

‘Ah interesting you say that. Perhaps we can go a little deeper into that later. I guess this comes from being given access to the history of the World since the 39-45 Global conflict as preparation for this chat.’

‘Yes of course.’ For the first time Winston looks amused.

‘How has that affected you, Winston?

‘It affected me profoundly, David. I wouldn’t be human if it didn’t.’

‘Yes of course. Silly of me. Is there anything that stands out?’

‘Hundreds if not thousands of things. It’s impossible to numerate. I have tried to distil it down to a general overall sense of life in the now.’

‘It must have been a hell of a shock for you.’

‘Not at all. After the terror of my “re-creation” by your machine, I can’t imagine getting shocked by anything. In fact I now realise how wrong my “father” got it. If what he predicted had come about, nobody would be here. There would be no today.’

‘What do you mean, Winston? I’m not sure what point you are making here. Can you expand on that?’

‘In 1949 the World including my “father” George Orwell had no idea of the effects of warfare using nuclear bombs. That’s obvious to anybody who reads the book.’

‘Well, on that point I think we’ll take a break here.’

The black screen returns.

From behind the camera, Frans speaks. ‘Verdomme, I didn’t see that coming, Wolff.'

‘Ja this is why you need to see everything, nicht wahr, James?'

'Most definitely, this computer is much more powerful than any of us thought.'